Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[nomi007]

Gun Port

ap ko deha jata hai qmobile e440

 

[Indus Falcon]

ap ko deha jata hai qmobile e440

NO thanks! Ap ko hi mubarak hoe!

 

[Munir]

Based on what? Technical specifications? Performance? The reality of the JF-17 is far less than the claims, thus far. May be after development it will rise to its hype.

sat in both. talked to both teams. So how do you come to your conclusion?

 

[VCheng]

sat in both. talked to both teams. So how do you come to your conclusion?

Let's talk about actual specifications and performance for a better comparison, if we could.

 

[Munir]

Let's talk about actual specifications and performance for a better comparison, if we could.

I am not going to provide you any data. You did not asnwer my question. Let us close any discussion.

 

[VCheng]

I am not going to provide you any data. You did not asnwer my question. Let us close any discussion.

Sure. There is no evidence to consider the hype about JF-17 as true. Let us see if and when that is ever realized. No rush.

 

[Munir]

There is no evidence on your side.

 

[VCheng]

There is no evidence on your side.

The claims made need to proven by actual demonstrated performance at some point, no the other way around, Sir. At present, with the current engine and avionics, it will be a while yet, it seems.

 

[elitepilot09]

The claims made need to proven by actual demonstrated performance at some point, no the other way around, Sir. At present, with the current engine and avionics, it will be a while yet, it seems.

First, what makes you believe that a few pundits like us on this board will be given the sort of information that you're looking for? I don't even understand what exactly you're wanting either... But before you think that this may be a stalemate, lets consider a few things:

While I agree that the F-16 is a formidable aircraft which has served us well, you have to remember that these ADFs were made in 1981 for Gods sake. Their PW-220's have had extensive flying hours and these jets are nimble... but without a doubt still kicking. These F-16's have not gone through the MLU process and therefore are inferior to the JF-17... how? Well, on paper its avionics and radar (KLJ-7v2) is very much comparable to the APG-68 in specification and size while the ADF only carries the older APG-66. As far as the engine is concerned, I don't know about you, but I'll take a new RD-93 over a 33 year old PW-220 any day.

Fact of the matter is that you'll never know the actual comparison between the ADF and the JF-17, but on paper the Thunder blk2 has the advantage... until the ADF undergoes the MLU process (which I hope it will soon).

So then why did we opt for old F-16's over JF-17s? I truly believe that the low price is what attracted the PAF. We saw that a BVR platform which is a fraction of the cost of a new JF-17 (which, mind you, is already relatively cheaper than 4th gen aircraft) is available to us and we jumped on it. And hopefully, once we've invested in it as much as we would a standard JF-17 by sending it to TAI for MLU, it will be a fighter equivelent to the Blk40/42 standard, which is superior to the JF-17 in its current stage.

 

[doritos]

If you ( each state looking for multirole fighters ) can buy MIG 35 or JF 17 why would you get JF 17

 

[Indus Falcon]

If you ( each state looking for multirole fighters ) can buy MIG 35 or JF 17 why would you get JF 17

You'd have to be special kind of stupid to buy a Mig35. You'd probably buy a flanker derivative NOT a Mig.

But then buying Russian means, you can't leave it in the sun for too long, (it doesn't like getting tanned) the electronics start frying like the indian MKI's. Spares, reliability, availability (on the flight line) all become issues. Better off buying Korean T50

 

[Quwa]

If you ( each state looking for multirole fighters ) can buy MIG 35 or JF 17 why would you get JF 17

...and who has a firm order for MiG-35s?

 

[ziaulislam]

i think PAF chief was clear when he said that we got a high capability at a very small fraction of price we could have got ay fourth gen aircraft.
secondly it was very possible that a third country might have financed it, seeing the tarditional relationships between nawaz and saudi arabia
lastly, i am no expert but these aircrafts even though manufactured in 80s were in storage for quiet some time and even less used during their Jordanian life, so PAF chief is most likley correct saying that they have pretty much life left on them.
Jordon got them very cheap after peace deal with Israel, Jordon isnt a oil rich econmy i think it was evident that they wanted to decrease the size of their air force to a more manageable small size
laslty, how many MLU kits did we brought, there was news that we brought spare of 14? if the MLUs are already ordered than i think getting those f-16 at 1/4 of cost JF-17 isnt a bad deal, especially when it instantly boast you capability.
i think the real question is the price and financing of those aircrafts, without this info we cant judge whether the deal was very good or not.

 

[Quwa]

Also, I doubt the PAF would be adverse to the idea of seeing its F-7s swapped out for F-16s over the next 3-5 years.

 

[VCheng]

First, what makes you believe that a few pundits like us on this board will be given the sort of information that you're looking for? I don't even understand what exactly you're wanting either... But before you think that this may be a stalemate, lets consider a few things:

While I agree that the F-16 is a formidable aircraft which has served us well, you have to remember that these ADFs were made in 1981 for Gods sake. Their PW-220's have had extensive flying hours and these jets are nimble... but without a doubt still kicking. These F-16's have not gone through the MLU process and therefore are inferior to the JF-17... how? Well, on paper its avionics and radar (KLJ-7v2) is very much comparable to the APG-68 in specification and size while the ADF only carries the older APG-66. As far as the engine is concerned, I don't know about you, but I'll take a new RD-93 over a 33 year old PW-220 any day.

Fact of the matter is that you'll never know the actual comparison between the ADF and the JF-17, but on paper the Thunder blk2 has the advantage... until the ADF undergoes the MLU process (which I hope it will soon).

So then why did we opt for old F-16's over JF-17s? I truly believe that the low price is what attracted the PAF. We saw that a BVR platform which is a fraction of the cost of a new JF-17 (which, mind you, is already relatively cheaper than 4th gen aircraft) is available to us and we jumped on it. And hopefully, once we've invested in it as much as we would a standard JF-17 by sending it to TAI for MLU, it will be a fighter equivelent to the Blk40/42 standard, which is superior to the JF-17 in its current stage.

Thank you for that post, but I would be willing to wager that that 33 year old PW and airframe can put a pair of missiles backed by decent avionics and enough fuel to do the job from brakes off to 40,000 feet faster than the JF-17, or put twice as much ordnance in ground targets with greater accuracy, other things being equal.

Great as the JF-17 is, it has a weak engine, not enough internal fuel and cobbled together avionics. It will take some time to develop into a platform fit for this century rather than the last.

No offence intended or implied, Sir.