Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[HRK]

Those placements would be subject to mutually agreed upon controls between Pakistan and USA.

Please refer to previous posts between Chogy and me a while ago. I will not be able to add any more information.
Do these controls hamper war doctrine? No.

Jacobabad Air base .... ??

 

[Kompromat]

What did Pakistan actually pay for these fighters?

Few theories.

* These are F-16s the US owed us.
* We have paid for them
* There is a barter going on for Jf-17s in return as payment.

 

[VCheng]

Its been at least 2 years since I saw chogy here -- so finding such old posts would'nt be easy

These posts might help you:

The value added is very high. I believe we both understand. But I'll leave it at this - I think it is irresponsible to promulgate the notion of a kill switch, because that is what 98% of readers think it is. And given that there is no way to openly discuss the specifics without an OPSEC violation, then the less-than-accurate impression (kill switch) is what people are going to take from it.

It is more accurate to say something like this: "There is technology in these systems that is extremely sensitive that will probably remain in control of the U.S. That does not mean the weapons will not work. The GOP and the PAF were entirely aware of these limitations, yet were happy to add these jets to their inventory, regardless. That should say something - namely, even in a worst-case scenario, the aircraft would remain important and effective assets."

I can accept that. Thank you!

I will say no more on this topic.

Sounds good, Amigo!

Roger that!

 

[Luftwaffe]

Few theories.

* These are F-16s the US owed us.
* We have paid for them
* There is a barter going on for Jf-17s in return as payment.

I still don't believe RJAF have 180 AMRAAMs [don't believe in wiki] the last authentic figure was around 57-60. So they probably are looking for BVRs and another potential platform could it either be KAI FA-50 or JF-17s but these are just speculations also they are interested in Typhoons.

 

[VCheng]

Its been at least 2 years since I saw chogy here -- so finding such old posts would'nt be easy

One more ........

The MPS/DTC/system software for the F-16PK is unique, Chogy, and exactly as I have described it. I have my own sources for basing my comments.

However, since I cannot go into exacting details here, I will publicly accept your premise, and leave mine as unproved. Proving it on PDF to stroke my own false ego is something that I do not wish to do. Fair enough?

I will however reiterate that the "sandbox" and the "toys" in said "sandbox" are managed very carefully indeed, in a variety of ways, and for a number of reasons. The personnel involved, including the pilot, cannot interfere with or even detect this "adult supervision".

What you describe is correct, but using all of that MPS data and particularly its execution during the mission relies on many other software controls. Sure, the baseline operation of the stock airplane/avionics will go on, but what is the value added role of the precision systems for navigation/targeting/communication/ECM etc. during modern combat? You tell me.

OPSEC violations are serious business, so let me stop right here without adding anything to what has already been said.

======================================

The F-16 is a great choice for PAF, no doubt.

 

[BATMAN]

all of you forget one thing here age and usage of that birds

No doubt, subject F-16's are too old.... they were given to RJAF out of a US junk yard.
I wonder, how PAF would keep them airworthy........ spares!

 

[rockstar08]

Kyun ke F-16 Reliable hai

 

[Manticore]

Pakistan Continues Buying Surplus F-16s – Adding 13 from Jordan
Defense Updateakistan Continues Buying Surplus F-16s - Adding 13 from Jordan - Defense Update:
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The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) has acquired a squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan. The early production Block-15 fighter jets will be inducted inducted into the service in March 2014, next month, Pakistan’sTheNews reports.

Two Royal Jordanian Air Force F-16s fly alongside a U.S. Air Force KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft while waiting to connect for fuel over Jordan. Photo: US Air Force

Of the fighters acquired from the Royal Jordanian Air Force, 12 of the aircraft are single seaters A models and one is a twin-seat F-16B. Jordan has recently acquired 15 similar aircraft – F-16A/B MLU from the Dutch Air Force, and expect these aircraft to be delivered in 2015. The aircraft Pakistan is receiving have also undergone MLU providing service and are cleared for 20 years operations or 3,000 flight hours on average. Pakistan has already received a number of F-16s

Pakistan has been contemplating to acquire more used planes for the PAF from other countries while the induction of new production JF-17 Thunder continues. The JF-17 is a co-production of Pakistan and China.

Through the upgrade process carried out at the US Air Force Ogden Air Logistics Centre, structural upgrades were performed to extend the aircraft life from the designed 4,000 to 8,000 hours flying time. Other modifications include changes to the engine bay, to receive the upgraded Pratt and Whitney F100-220E engine. Most of Pakistan’s F-16s are of early generation A/B models, acquired from US surplus and upgraded through MLU. Some were delivered free of charge by the US Government. The new acquisition will bring the Pakistani Air Force F-16 fleet to 76. Only 20 are of more modern make, namely F-16C and F-16C/D Block 52.

Pakistan Air Force from left to right: JF-17, F-16, F-7, A-5C and Mirage 5. Photo:PAFwallpapers.com

Through the years Pakistan has been a keen ‘collector’ of Dassault Mirage III/V fighter jets. Between 1967 and 1982 Islamabad bought 66 new Mirage III/V, but through the 1990s ‘collected’ over 130 of the fighters in the surplus market, from the French, Australian and Lebanese air forces. Many of these were modernized through the three phases ROSE program, improving avionics, weaponry and operational capabilities, associated with special missions, special weapons and night capabilities. The F-16, while adding many advanced capabilities, is not fulfilling many of these capabilities, therefore, it can replace the A-5C and F-7s in service, but not the Mirages.

Buying second hand fighters is one way for the Pakistani Air Force to manage the financial pressure that has limited its modernization since 2007. The acquisition of the JF-17 Thunder remains the single, highest priority, for which Islamabad secured a Chinese loan to keep production on track at an annual rate of 18 aircraft per year with 50 (Block I) jets in service. Defense News reported. Another significant investment was the acquisition of four Saab2000 Erieye early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft for US$1 billion, the last of those aircraft was delivered in 2010. (It is unclear how many of these are operational, one of the four was reportedly damaged or destroyed in August 2012 by a Taliban attack on the Kamra air base.)

Production of 50 Thunders of the second block began in December 2013. The Thunder Block II has improved avionics, weapons load and carriage capability, a data link and an electronic warfare suite, plus an in-flight refueling capability. With these enhancements the cost of the Thunder has increased from US$15 million to $25 million, according to Dawn. Pakistan’s requirement is for up to 250 planes to the F-7 and, eventually, Mirage III/5 fighter aircraft currently in service. The Thunder has already replaced the A-5C Fantan strike fighter with two squadrons.

While Pakistan is seeking relative parity with India, the PAF currently has no counterpart for India’s Su-30MKI, nor the future Rafale, (when and if the MMRCA is to be fielded). Pakistan has been considering buying Chinese FC-20 (J10) fighter planes they considered could be a fair match to the Rafale. However, it is now considered that Thunder Block III and more upgrades to their F-16s, bringing the Falcons to the Block52 level could satisfy the PAF requirements for the near term.

Pakistan and China are also working on a combat-capable, two-seat conversion trainer variant of the Thunder, which would meet Pakistan Air Force requirements for special missions and night attack, as well as improve export sales prospects for the aircraft. Further improvements are planned for the Block III, a version which is currently on paper, but could enter design phase in 2016.

PAF F-16A block 15 from 11 sqn is seen landing at Konya AB during Anatolian Eagle 2007. (TuAF photo)

 

[waz]

Great news and gives us even more capability.

The PAF wiki page should show this news soon.

List of aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Solomon2]

Very clever. The F-16s sold to Jordan in the late 70s or early 80s were degraded-performance models: they did not have the powerful F-100 engines nor the most up to date avionics. That was to assure Congress that Israel would retain air superiority in the region, the promise the U.S. made to keep Israel from conquering Damascus in the 1973 war.

Consequently the wear on their airframes is probably much less than "normal" F-16s of comparable age. With upgraded avionics and engines, I imagine these planes are now just as good as F-16s built in the 1990s.

 

[Manticore]

how many f16s have returned from mlu?

 

[nangyale]

It's also interesting to note that 12 out of 13 are single seat variants, keeping in mind that the majority received from the US EDA were B variants.

 

[SQ8]

Very clever. The F-16s sold to Jordan in the late 70s or early 80s were degraded-performance models: they did not have the powerful F-100 engines nor the most up to date avionics. That was to assure Congress that Israel would retain air superiority in the region, the promise the U.S. made to keep Israel from conquering Damascus in the 1973 war.

Consequently the wear on their airframes is probably much less than "normal" F-16s of comparable age. With upgraded avionics and engines, I imagine these planes are now just as good as F-16s built in the 1990s.

Those F-16s were not the ones sold either. As they never went through the Ogden center. Jordan augmented its older F-16 fleet with F-16 ADF models and European MLUs from Belgium,Denmark and the Netherlands. There is no indication on what has been sold to Pakistan but the repeated mention of the Ogden center suggest the F-16 ADF variants purchased by Jordan in 1996.
These were hardly "degraded" versions..

Also, your contention that the F-16s sold to Jordan did not have F-100 engines is also folly. Please read up.. the F-100 was standard in all F-16s including the one sold to Egypt and Jordan. Israel actually pushed the program as it earned the possibility of further goodwill from it after the 1994 peace accord.

 

[MastanKhan]

That is a big purchase, instant squadron purchase should raise some eyebrows in the neighborhood. This needs keen observation.



the problem is that MKi is not the only strike force that IAF will deploy, in 2-5 years, The force projection you envisage can be equally matched by air superiority packages identified other than Mki

Hi,

See---we are not worried about " the equally matched " part----that is where we want to stay----in the same hemisphere.

What we are worried about was where you could just simply smash us. I have always stated---if we made our committment to buy F16's after the sanctions---then we should have gone ahead and become a truly committed F16 air force----in a 30 % ---70 % proportion of new and used / mlu'd aircraft would give paf the ultimate bang for the buck.


J10B is a 5 to 10 years project once you have a couple of sqdrn's of that aircraft----which means that it would take you that much time for integration---develop an operational manual and get enough pilots upto date on this aircraft to perform on the same level as that of their current F 16 pilots.

 

[MastanKhan]

, I am guessing kremlin is opening few vodka's

Hi,

And caviar too---It is a come to DADDY moment for russia.