Pakistan - As The Pivotal State

[AA_]

Hello All, I used to go on this Hong Kong-based online newspaper, Asia Times. They post many good articles about geopolitical, economic, military, and national resources. They had a robust comments section. The most interesting comments were always posted by these Pakistani commenters. Oftentimes, as here and on Social Media, Indians routinely would come and start trolling on anything Pakistan-related articles. There was always one Pakistani commenter who used to counter the Indians by leaving thought-provoking comments. His way of thinking wasn't linear, It was abstract but concise.
Oddly, I came across his comments in an NYTimes article on Pakistan and Imran Khan (sometimes around 2018?). He again Indians to the task.

Anyways, I found the commenter's LinkedIn profile just by going off his Asia Times profile, since it was linked to his Facebook. I reached out on LinkedIn and came to learn that this person had a very impressive Aeronautical Engineering background.

He often writes on Islam, Pakistan, India-Pakistan relations, and the Middle East. He was kind enough to share one such paper, on Pakistan and its status to be a pivotal state. I want to share this article with fellow Pakistanis. I found it to be very thought-provoking.

I thought it was appropriate given the current stressful situation our people are going through. Hope you guys enjoy it.

PS - for privacy purposes, I blacked out his name and telephone information.

"In 1947 US Life Magazine interview MA Jinnah predicted Pakistan to be the "Pivot" of the world, not just Islam. Notwithstanding the then vastly greater material advancement of the US, his Pakistan was still going to play a key and central role. It would have been dismissed as a laughable boast had it not come true as events have proved his foresight."

 

[Clutch]

Hello All, I used to go on this Hong Kong-based online newspaper, Asia Times. They post many good articles about geopolitical, economic, military, and national resources. They had a robust comments section. The most interesting comments were always posted by these Pakistani commenters. Oftentimes, as here and on Social Media, Indians routinely would come and start trolling on anything Pakistan-related articles. There was always one Pakistani commenter who used to counter the Indians by leaving thought-provoking comments. His way of thinking wasn't linear, It was abstract but concise.
Oddly, I came across his comments in an NYTimes article on Pakistan and Imran Khan (sometimes around 2018?). He again Indians to the task.

Anyways, I found the commenter's LinkedIn profile just by going off his Asia Times profile, since it was linked to his Facebook. I reached out on LinkedIn and came to learn that this person had a very impressive Aeronautical Engineering background.

He often writes on Islam, Pakistan, India-Pakistan relations, and the Middle East. He was kind enough to share one such paper, on Pakistan and its status to be a pivotal state. I want to share this article with fellow Pakistanis. I found it to be very thought-provoking.

I thought it was appropriate given the current stressful situation our people are going through. Hope you guys enjoy it.

PS - for privacy purposes, I blacked out his name and telephone information.

"In 1947 US Life Magazine interview MA Jinnah predicted Pakistan to be the "Pivot" of the world, not just Islam. Notwithstanding the then vastly greater material advancement of the US, his Pakistan was still going to play a key and central role. It would have been dismissed as a laughable boast had it not come true as events have proved his foresight."

Correction: Pakistan as a failed State.

 

[AA_]

Correction: Pakistan as a failed State.

I feel that way with what’s been going on. It’s still unbelievable at the turn the country took a year ago. I hope it recovers. My only hope is there’s another IK in the making but without the big mouth politics and more wily than IK. You’d have to move in silence to defeat the cabal. Use them against them.

 

[nahtanbob]

Hello All, I used to go on this Hong Kong-based online newspaper, Asia Times. They post many good articles about geopolitical, economic, military, and national resources. They had a robust comments section. The most interesting comments were always posted by these Pakistani commenters. Oftentimes, as here and on Social Media, Indians routinely would come and start trolling on anything Pakistan-related articles. There was always one Pakistani commenter who used to counter the Indians by leaving thought-provoking comments. His way of thinking wasn't linear, It was abstract but concise.
Oddly, I came across his comments in an NYTimes article on Pakistan and Imran Khan (sometimes around 2018?). He again Indians to the task.

Anyways, I found the commenter's LinkedIn profile just by going off his Asia Times profile, since it was linked to his Facebook. I reached out on LinkedIn and came to learn that this person had a very impressive Aeronautical Engineering background.

He often writes on Islam, Pakistan, India-Pakistan relations, and the Middle East. He was kind enough to share one such paper, on Pakistan and its status to be a pivotal state. I want to share this article with fellow Pakistanis. I found it to be very thought-provoking.

I thought it was appropriate given the current stressful situation our people are going through. Hope you guys enjoy it.

PS - for privacy purposes, I blacked out his name and telephone information.

"In 1947 US Life Magazine interview MA Jinnah predicted Pakistan to be the "Pivot" of the world, not just Islam. Notwithstanding the then vastly greater material advancement of the US, his Pakistan was still going to play a key and central role. It would have been dismissed as a laughable boast had it not come true as events have proved his foresight."

Pivot for what ??

The definition of pivot
the central point, pin, or shaft on which a mechanism turns or oscillates

 

[AA_]

Pivot for what ??

The definition of pivot
the central point, pin, or shaft on which a mechanism turns or oscillates

Sorry, Indian, go suck a nut. That’s all I will say to your kind!

 

[AgnosticIndian]

I took a glance at a random section that intrested me. It takes that OG Pakistan vision, that pan-Islamist vision, (as unlike the Indus revisionism), that I talked about earlier, and perhaps because of that, or inspite of that, is quite a bit weird and surreal; the author wants Pakistan to be the leader of the Ummah as it emerges with the new/correct version of Islam, having solved the sectarian problem and ended the Shia-Sunni conflict. He seems to see Pakistan as an unnatural entity, an unreal nation, and despite, or perhaps because of that, it is supposedly poised to be the leader of the Muslim World. India can keep Punjab and Bengal together unlike Pakistan, yet he retcons 1971 as inevitable despite that pan-Islamist vision, but I'll have to ask: how can those who could not even take the leadership of the Ummah of the subcontinent take the leadership of Ummah of the world? I guess that is what he explains in the rest of the paper.

@nahtanbob

 

[Meengla]

I took a glance at a random section that intrested me. It takes that OG Pakistan vision, that pan-Islamist vision, (as unlike the Indus revisionism), that I talked about earlier, and perhaps because of that, or inspite of that, is quite a bit weird and surreal; the author wants Pakistan to be the leader of the Ummah as it emerges with the new/correct version of Islam, having solved the sectarian problem and ended the Shia-Sunni conflict. He seems to see Pakistan as an unnatural entity, an unreal nation, and despite, or perhaps because of that, it is supposedly poised to be the leader of the Muslim World. India can keep Punjab and Bengal together unlike Pakistan, yet he retcons 1971 as inevitable despite that pan-Islamist vision, but I'll have to ask: how can those who could not even take the leadership of the Ummah of the subcontinent take the leadership of Ummah of the world? I guess that is what he explains in the rest of the paper.

@nahtanbob

I didn't read the paper. The 'pivot' this or that are too grandiose.

I was raised with Pakistan's textbooks saying 'Pakistan Islam ka Qila hey' (Pakistan is the fortress of Islam). Such grandiose visions! But then, I am old enough to also remember when Pakistan's military propped up IJI against Benazir Bhutto in the 1988/89 elections, the IJI leaders like Nawaz Sharif used the electioneering slogans like 'We will put Pakistan's flag on Delhi's Red Fort!'.

But.... Pakistan is an ideological state, for better or worse. It is perhaps in the DNA of Pakistanis to look beyond ethnicities, sectarianism and nationalities as long as those who need help are Muslims!!! The sense of kinship is not different from the Jewish sense of kinship.

Right or wrong? Only time will tell. Nations rise and fall. America had a Civil War in the 1860s the horrors and the lows of which Pakistan has not experienced yet. And I hope may never experience. But nations rise and fall and rise and fall and rise and fall or vanish. As long as their are strong ideological underpinnings, a nation never dies.

 

[nahtanbob]

I didn't read the paper. The 'pivot' this or that are too grandiose.

I was raised with Pakistan's textbooks saying 'Pakistan Islam ka Qila hey' (Pakistan is the fortress of Islam). Such grandiose visions! But then, I am old enough to also remember when Pakistan's military propped up IJI against Benazir Bhutto in the 1988/89 elections, the IJI leaders like Nawaz Sharif used the electioneering slogans like 'We will put Pakistan's flag on Delhi's Red Fort!'.

But.... Pakistan is an ideological state, for better or worse. It is perhaps in the DNA of Pakistanis to look beyond ethnicities, sectarianism and nationalities as long as those who need help are Muslims!!! The sense of kinship is not different from the Jewish sense of kinship.

Right or wrong? Only time will tell. Nations rise and fall. America had a Civil War in the 1860s the horrors and the lows of which Pakistan has not experienced yet. And I hope may never experience. But nations rise and fall and rise and fall and rise and fall or vanish. As long as their are strong ideological underpinnings, a nation never dies.

American Civil War was brutal. But POWs were treated okay of course it is brutal by today's standards. White civlilan women were not raped. If you committed one and you were caught your own commander you were hanged by the end of the day. It was about something that had to go away

feeling kinship for other Muslims is fine. But at some point if others do not respond in kind it is going to die away

 

[AA_]

It is perhaps in the DNA of Pakistanis to look beyond ethnicities, sectarianism and nationalities as long as those who need help are Muslims!!! The sense of kinship is not different from the Jewish sense of kinship.

Bingo! An actual Ummah, transcend race ethnicity politics.

 

[nahtanbob]

I took a glance at a random section that intrested me. It takes that OG Pakistan vision, that pan-Islamist vision, (as unlike the Indus revisionism), that I talked about earlier, and perhaps because of that, or inspite of that, is quite a bit weird and surreal; the author wants Pakistan to be the leader of the Ummah as it emerges with the new/correct version of Islam, having solved the sectarian problem and ended the Shia-Sunni conflict. He seems to see Pakistan as an unnatural entity, an unreal nation, and despite, or perhaps because of that, it is supposedly poised to be the leader of the Muslim World. India can keep Punjab and Bengal together unlike Pakistan, yet he retcons 1971 as inevitable despite that pan-Islamist vision, but I'll have to ask: how can those who could not even take the leadership of the Ummah of the subcontinent take the leadership of Ummah of the world? I guess that is what he explains in the rest of the paper.

@nahtanbob

The problem with pan-Islamist visions is that very few outside Pakistan accept it
From the previous response from @AA_ he cannot even answer simple questions

 

[AgnosticIndian]

His ideas on race are reminiscent of the Cosmic Race ideology of Mexico.

"La raza cósmica (The Cosmic Race) is a Spanish-language book written by Mexican philosopher, secretary of education, and presidential candidate José Vasconcelos to express the ideology of a future "fifth race" in the Americas; an agglomeration of all the races in the world with no respect to color or number to erect a new civilization: Universópolis."

La raza cósmica - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Not bad in itself, but he extrapolates wildly from it.

The problem with pan-Islamist visions is that very few outside Pakistan accept it

Yep. Surely it is true that Pakistan is an ideological state and cares about Islam, but the question is: does the rest of Islam care about Pakistan and its ideology? It now seems even the people of Pakistan want out of this ideological state. He gives "increasing pauperisation" as a reason for Saudi Arabia to not hold the leadership of the Ummah, despite the continued development and ascendance of Saudi Arabia under bin Salman. Even Iran seems closer to Saudia Arabia than it is to Pakistan, under Chinese insistence.

 

[Meengla]

American Civil War was brutal. But POWs were treated okay of course it is brutal by today's standards. White civlilan women were not raped. If you committed one and you were caught your own commander you were hanged by the end of the day. It was about something that had to go away

feeling kinship for other Muslims is fine. But at some point if others do not respond in kind it is going to die away

Here in the American South, it is called 'The War of Northern Aggression!'. And, you ignored my point about how a nation can suffer and rise and instead brought up prisoners treatment.

I am too self-absorbed, too agnostic personally to care about what any ethnoreligious group should do. I am merely pointing out that Pakistanis have a VERY strong sense of pan-Islamism and that has made Pakistanis to go to far off places like Bosnia to die for the Bosnians; that's just an example.

 

[nahtanbob]

Here in the American South, it is called 'The War of Northern Aggression!'. And, you ignored my point about how a nation can suffer and rise and instead brought up prisoners treatment.

I am too self-absorbed, too agnostic personally to care about what any ethnoreligious group should do. I am merely pointing out that Pakistanis have a VERY strong sense of pan-Islamism and that has made Pakistanis to go to far off places like Bosnia to die for the Bosnians; that's just an example.

Modern civil wars similar to US civil war will tear apart countries for decades if not permanently destroy countries. Your slave owning Southerners were in Congress, military and other branches of the elite within a decade or so

 

[Meengla]

Modern civil wars similar to US civil war will tear apart countries for decades if not permanently destroy countries. Your slave owning Southerners were in Congress, military and other branches of the elite within a decade or so

Yankees are hypocrites, obnoxious when from larger Northern cities and still come to the South!
Here is a screen cap from just this evening of my night out!!!

 

[-=virus=-]

Pakistan is an ideological state, not a civilization state.

Sometimes it feels like they're still searching for an identity

Idea was, k ji India se ekdum alag hona hai.. but musalman culture thrives in India.. unfortunately the horrors of partition made it so that Indian musalman culture in Punjab/India is basically non existent but its everywhere else, Kerala, Andhra, WB, UP, Bihar, Tamil Nadu etc.. lots of distinct muslim Indian identities exist here.

Cold war jab tak thi, because we were soft allies of those loser commies, Pak, US allied, were ahead by most metrics.

Ab paasa palat gya hai, Cheen ke allies (tempted to say vassal but wont) ban ke reh ge bas..

tremendous fall from what was clearly comparatively 'glory' back in the day

missteps galore, no doubt confounded by things like the WoT... but Pak planners played it poorly, and now find themselves in a soup.

Cheen Cheen laga rakhi hai bas.. is weak sauce, man.