Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[JohnWick]

camo suggests destined 4 azad kashmir / north punjab

I think this Camo is for the forests of Indian punjab.

 

[Dazzler]

Strangely, despite similarities with the Russian 2A46Mxx, Chinese ZPT-98 maingun is a bit of a mix bag. While it offers better firepower and barrel life, chrome platting, is auto fretagged, extra chamber pressure, the barrel is not front removable due to fixed cradle assembly.

VT-4/ MBT 3000 with front removable barrel (probably HMC made).

Note: HMC made 125mm barrels are front removable, and feature double chrome platting as well. They seem to have borrowed the best features of both zpt-98 and KBA-3. (KBA-3 lacks chrome platting).

 

[Beast]

Sir adding 200 or 250 more VT4 will increase inductions time ?
In case of these used T80UD can be from Ukraine or Russia
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Not sure how good those used T-80UD becos Ukraine has lost most of the abilities to produced tank engine. A crucial component of the tank which can only import from Ukraine. That is the very reason for the very slow production rate for Al Khalid. Ukraine suffering a massive economy crisis becos of civil war. The factories are incapable of retaining skilled workers and maintain their factory facilities. Buying those tank are giving you further logistic nightmare.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Not used how good those used T-80UD becos Ukraine has lost most of the abilities to produced tank engine. A crucial component of the tank which can only import from Ukraine. That is the very reason for the very slow production rate for Al Khalid. Ukraine suffering a massive economy crisis becos of civil war. The factories are incapable of retaining skilled workers and maintain their factory facilities. Buying those tank are giving you further logistic nightmare.

Aggree, Al khalid 2 specially suffered alot that why Pakistan opted for similar thing as VT-4,
Question arises they still have window of 250 +- tanks open as sir @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said can be filled with additional VT4 (quite logical to have same plateform )

0n other hand 2 point arises in mind
First why dont they give fill order in front as we already behind due to Al khalid issues.

Second Pakistan want variations in tank fleet by adopting thr other plateform so limitations of VT4 or AK2 covered in it. Thinking to deply both plateform in different region according to requirements (bcuz some people says Chinese tank are weak in desert areas ).

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Blacklight

 

[Armchair]

Sir adding 200 or 250 more VT4 will increase inductions time ?
In case of these used T80UD can be from Ukraine or Russia
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

After VT-4 buy, converting T80s to UDs is old story now. Seems Pak got a deal like what we would expect from US deals with Israel. VT-4s are the tanks to be imported in the near future, nothing else.

The Ukranians originally offered ToT for the engines as an option. At minimum PA should have capacity to build most common spare parts.
The 6TD is a relatively simple design, uprated to 1200 hp but probably optimal at 700 hp. With ToT Pak could create a family of 300 - 1000 hp engines that would drive industrialization in Pakistan

 

[Beast]

After VT-4 buy, converting T80s to UDs is old story now. Seems Pak got a deal like what we would expect from US deals with Israel. VT-4s are the tanks to be imported in the near future, nothing else.

The Ukranians originally offered ToT for the engines as an option. At minimum PA should have capacity to build most common spare parts.
The 6TD is a relatively simple design, uprated to 1200 hp but probably optimal at 700 hp. With ToT Pak could create a family of 300 - 1000 hp engines that would drive industrialization in Pakistan

Ukraine will not offer ToT, not even if you paid them money. Its their Lifeline and trump card. All high performance diesel high HP tank engine are not easy to build. Ask Turkey if you dont believe it why their Altay got delay. Or you can ask why their South Korea Black partner export got plenty of obstacles. But I do know SK recently got some breakthru for their domestic 1500HP engine. Anyway, SK is a developed and highly industries countries flood with cash. So its not fair to compare theirs with others situation.

 

[Armchair]

Ukraine will not offer ToT, not even if you paid them money. Its their Lifeline and trump card. All high performance diesel high HP tank engine are not easy to build. Ask Turkey if you dont believe it why their Altay got delay. Or you can ask why their South Korea Black partner export got plenty of obstacles. But I do know SK recently got some breakthru for their domestic 1500HP engine. Anyway, SK is a developed and highly industries countries flood with cash. So its not fair to compare theirs with others situation.

irrelevant. wel known Ukraine originally offered tot from senior members here. whether the offer is still open is a different qtn

 

[Beast]

irrelevant. wel known Ukraine originally offered tot from senior members here. whether the offer is still open is a different qtn

ToT is a very loose term. India MKI AL-31FP engine are claim to be ToT. Turkey F-16 F110 engine are also claim to be ToT. But how much have they learn from those ToT to be self independent and make those engines without Russian or American external support?

Be it western, UKraine, Russian or Chinese. Nobody will give you ToT for crucial propulsion system. Even our QC-280 gas turbine for our destroyer made by China offer very limited help from Ukraine. Their aim is to hold u hostage and keep squeezing money. But our years of research and modernization of our industries level paid off. Same as the our VT-4 engine.

 

[Armchair]

ToT is a very loose term. India MKI AL-31FP engine are claim to be ToT. Turkey F-16 F110 engine are also claim to be ToT. But how much have they learn from those ToT to be self independent and make those engines without Russian or American external support?

Be it western, UKraine, Russian or Chinese. Nobody will give you ToT for crucial propulsion system. Even our QC-280 gas turbine for our destroyer made by China offer very limited help from Ukraine. Their aim is to hold u hostage and keep squeezing money. But our years of research and modernization of our industries level paid off. Same as the our VT-4 engine.

Ur vt 4 engine is hitech, made with a number of advanced alloys. it comes like an integrated unit, very impressive. Ukrainian engine is 1980s old school soviet engine. big difference. Pak will need to master a bit of metallurgy to produce these.

 

[HRK]

wel known Ukraine originally offered tot from senior members here

officially confirm news ....

 

[serenity]

Ur vt 4 engine is hitech, made with a number of advanced alloys. it comes like an integrated unit, very impressive. Ukrainian engine is 1980s old school soviet engine. big difference. Pak will need to master a bit of metallurgy to produce these.

Haha yes we have learned many things from Germans in diesel engine for trucks and construction vehicle engines. Also their ideas on how to build integrated unit.

How is Russia building T-14 engine? They must hold some very good engine expertise too to carry for T-90MS.

 

[Scorpiooo]

irrelevant. wel known Ukraine originally offered tot from senior members here. whether the offer is still open is a different qtn

Sir then why PA and Kamra refused it ?, can be great help in AK1 and AK2 and future ahead any Armar vehicles.
Any specific reason other then money ?

@Armchair. Whats your opinion about still windoe of 200 to 250 tanks for PA , which plateform you think will actually cover it ?

 

[serenity]

Strangely, despite similarities with the Russian 2A46Mxx, Chinese ZPT-98 maingun is a bit of a mix bag. While it offers better firepower and barrel life, chrome platting, is auto fretagged, extra chamber pressure, the barrel is not front removable due to fixed cradle assembly.

VT-4/ MBT 3000 with front removable barrel (probably HMC made).

Note: HMC made 125mm barrels are front removable, and feature double chrome platting as well. They seem to have borrowed the best features of both zpt-98 and KBA-3. (KBA-3 lacks chrome platting).

I think VT-4 uses slightly shorter gun than ZPT-98. The same gun used in Type 96B so basically same as Russian 2A46 original design but with modern manufacturing material and techniques like electroslag remelting and so Russian direction developed 2A46M versions for their's and ZPT-98 is same gun just 2 length longer so a bit heavier also using some technology from Type 89's main gun. All are very old and not much better than original 2A46 just small improvements everywhere. Ammunition is actually more important area and so our current tanks cannot match tanks using Rheinmetal L55 like K-2 and Leopard 2A7. Our ammunition is mystery but your tests will reveal enough information compared to Russian and Ukrainian tanks except Russia's best one 2A82 and 2A83 which is crazy 152mm.

Chinese next generation tank development may totally change this autoloader style and definitely new guns maybe bigger than 125mm. For Indian army their best tank for armor is Arjun and T-90S. 125mm ZPT-98 and smaller version may be enough. Hopefully Pakistan army receives the best Chinese ammunition not older versions otherwise front cannot be penetrated. Better to just HJ missiles because definitely more effective and cheaper costs if Pakistan army wants to target tanks. For VT-4 I think is for offensive movements.

 

[Armchair]

Sir then why PA and Kamra refused it ?, can be great help in AK1 and AK2 and future ahead any Armar vehicles.
Any specific reason other then money ?

@Armchair. Whats your opinion about still windoe of 200 to 250 tanks for PA , which plateform you think will actually cover it ?

I dont know why, maybe learned members like @Dazzler @Tipu7 can tell u the inside story of why it wasnt pursued.

Haha yes we have learned many things from Germans in diesel engine for trucks and construction vehicle engines. Also their ideas on how to build integrated unit.

How is Russia building T-14 engine? They must hold some very good engine expertise too to carry for T-90MS.

No idea about Russian engines. My knowledge is limited to Pak procured items only.

 

[Basel]

These are a serious threat to India. India should seriously think of procuring T-14 tanks now.

Why?? Basically it is to counter Indian modern tank threat.