Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[RAMPAGE]

- 9 T-129 ATAK EDH will enter inventory in the following months...
- For a while 2 of them will be used for trainings...
- Since 2011 more then 3.200 hours test flight have been made...
- Nearly 5.000 rocket launchs have been made...
- T-129 ATAK will take place at Farnborough Airshow in 19-20 July 2014 and will perform a demonstration flight...


T129 Erken Duhul Helikopterlerinin üretimi tamamlandı

I need a more powerful engine !!!

 

[Hakan]

I need a more powerful engine !!!

Bro if it meets the militaries requirements and it is able to carry all the bells and whistles it needs to operate effectively then I dont think that it not being as powerful as for example the apache is a problem.

T-129

Performance

• Maximum speed: 278 km/h (151 knots, 174 mph)
• Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
• Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
• Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
• Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)

TAI/AgustaWestland T129 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[farhan_9909]

In the other forum i hear that PAC and turkey are discussing a possible parts manufacturing for t-129 in PAC

 

[Hakan]

In the other forum i hear that PAC and turkey are discussing a possible parts manufacturing for t-129 in PAC

Via:

Alan Warnes
@warnesyworld

I dont know anything regarding the source and its validity.

 

[airmarshal]

I dont know anything regarding the source and its validity.

Alan Warnes is a very credible defense journalist. He writes for Jane's and Air Force Monthly. He cant be wrong or at least his info cant be unverified.

 

[Gessler]

In the other forum i hear that PAC and turkey are discussing a possible parts manufacturing for t-129 in PAC

I wonder if all the hungama about Pak purchasing T-129 will end with the Turks outsourcing production of
some parts (nothing much to cheer about really, India builds parts for EA-18G Growler) to PAC while PA
would end up buying AH-1Z Super Viper from US after 2015.

I don't think the so-called issue about dependence on US is justified, bcoz if Pak really seeks to move away
from US stuff, you'd be buying Chinese WZ-19. Not looking for T-129 which has considerable US-sourced
equipment like the turboshaft engine, moreover the T-129 is based on AgustaWestland A129 which is from
Italy, again an entirely US-obeying country.

 

[MastanKhan]

I wonder if all the hungama about Pak purchasing T-129 will end with the Turks outsourcing production of
some parts (nothing much to cheer about really, India builds parts for EA-18G Growler) to PAC while PA
would end up buying AH-1Z Super Viper from US after 2015.

I don't think the so-called issue about dependence on US is justified, bcoz if Pak really seeks to move away
from US stuff, you'd be buying Chinese WZ-19. Not looking for T-129 which has considerable US-sourced
equipment like the turboshaft engine, moreover the T-129 is based on AgustaWestland A129 which is from
Italy, again an entirely US-obeying country.

Hi,

The u s is obviously our first choice of weapons.

 

[Luftwaffe]

AH-1Z would be the choice because there is Cobra infrastructure in place for the past 30 years, had it not been the case Pakistan would have gone for any other Gunship. Z-19 maybe compared to AH-1 but still it is inferior to AH1Z in terms of Armor over all and single engine if China can refine the product and bring it to Pakistan for tests and bring it closer to AH-1Z maybe there could be a chance otherwise pointless even T-129 should not be looked into but AH-1Z...already told t-129 is expensive almost 35m each and the total cost of a single gunship might go to 48m we always get alot of discounts from both US and China I am not sure Turkey would be willing to do same.

 

[Zarvan]

AH-1Z would be the choice because there is Cobra infrastructure in place for the past 30 years, had it not been the case Pakistan would have gone for any other Gunship. Z-19 maybe compared to AH-1 but still it is inferior to AH1Z in terms of Armor over all and single engine if China can refine the product and bring it to Pakistan for tests and bring it closer to AH-1Z maybe there could be a chance otherwise pointless even T-129 should not be looked into but AH-1Z...already told t-129 is expensive almost 35m each and the total cost of a single gunship might go to 48m we always get alot of discounts from both US and China I am not sure Turkey would be willing to do same.

Sir problem is from Turkey we can easily get the helicopters as well as the spare parts with USA both are difficult they can stop supplies at any time they can't be trusted at all and we can get helicopters from Turkey with TOT

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

T129 program is moving at slow pace

• We need a secondary Helicopter program TOT program in country and local production line

 

[Luftwaffe]

Sir problem is from Turkey we can easily get the helicopters as well as the spare parts with USA both are difficult they can stop supplies at any time they can't be trusted at all and we can get helicopters from Turkey with TOT

T-129 has american technologies as well not to forget the Engine.

 

[Drebin]

@Luftwaffe

I agree with your understanding of the matter in reference to AH-1Z vs T-129 vs WZ-19. The obvious and the most sensible as well as economic among the bunch being super cobra but, don't you think the prospect of ToT which T-129 brings with itself is simply too good to refuse? Saying so because, it will further diversify our supply chain and bring in more and just competition among the top contenders. Even more important is the fact that, Pakistan will be absorbing the top western tech in field of military chopper manufacturing which will yield long term benefits in so many ways. Furthermore, it'll also help Pakistan establish even courteous relationships with Turkey (One of the top NATO allies) , thus bringing both our national interests further in line with each others boosting civil and military cooperation to strategic level.

In my humble view, this is an opportunity which should be fully exploited for the betterment of lives of people of both brotherly countries.

And also, T-129 may be a new and unproven platform but, it also means that its potential for upgrade is far superior to that of Super Cobra. And particularly important is the fact that, with ToT and closer cooperation of Turkey (or without), it can be tweaked and tinkered with to make a custom platform that adheres to each and every need of our Armed Forces akin to JF-17 Thunder.

Although, one can argue of WZ-19 bringing the same advantages but, to be fair, China hasn't offered ToT with it. Furthermore, it is questionable whether the Chinese technology is even on par with western technology or not (No offense to Chinese brothers). And again the important thing is diversification which wont happen with WZ-19. It'll rather make us even more reliant on China just like USA in past. And we all know it didn't bode well for us. In practical world, diversification and self reliance is the name of the game. It's a strategic lesson which will do us good should we bother to remember.

So, in my humble view, ATAK T-129 should be the logical choice for us. But, Army may be leaning more towards AH-1Zs.

Lets see what happens. Fingers crossed .

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Luftwaffe

I agree with your understanding of the matter in reference to AH-1Z vs T-129 vs WZ-19. The obvious and the most sensible as well as economic among the bunch being super cobra but, don't you think the prospect of ToT which T-129 brings with itself is simply too good to refuse? Saying so because, it will further diversify our supply chain and bring in more and just competition among the top contenders. Even more important is the fact that, Pakistan will be absorbing the top western tech in field of military chopper manufacturing which will yield long term benefits in so many ways. Furthermore, it'll also help Pakistan establish even courteous relationships with Turkey (One of the top NATO allies) , thus bringing both our national interests further in line with each others boosting civil and military cooperation to strategic level.

In my humble view, this is an opportunity which should be fully exploited for the betterment of lives of people of both brotherly countries.

And also, T-129 may be a new and unproven platform but, it also means that its potential for upgrade is far superior to that of Super Cobra. And particularly important is the fact that, with ToT and closer cooperation of Turkey (or without), it can be tweaked and tinkered with to make a custom platform that adheres to each and every need of our Armed Forces akin to JF-17 Thunder.

Although, one can argue of WZ-19 bringing the same advantages but, to be fair, China hasn't offered ToT with it. Furthermore, it is questionable whether the Chinese technology is even on par with western technology or not (No offense to Chinese brothers). And again the important thing is diversification which wont happen with WZ-19. It'll rather make us even more reliant on China just like USA in past. And we all know it didn't bode well for us. In practical world, diversification and self reliance is the name of the game. It's a strategic lesson which will do us good should we bother to remember.

So, in my humble view, ATAK T-129 should be the logical choice for us. But, Army may be leaning more towards AH-1Zs.

Lets see what happens. Fingers crossed .

The Engine is US/EU Honeywell-Rolls Royce for T-129 that is major component.

 

[Drebin]

The Engine is US/EU Honeywell-Rolls Royce for T-129 that is major component.

So is RD-93 on Thunder. Though its Russian and not US or EU but, point is Russia could block it too due to India. Yet it doesn't because China is involved, Pakistan is turning a new leaf with Russia with reported arrival to Putin back in September -which was postponed due to changing political reasons- and there's a thing called international diplomacy, sovereign guarantees, MOUs etc. Instead, Klimov is building a new generation of RD-93 with greater performance and thrust to weight ratio. And to date RD-93 has ONLY been fitted onto Thunders. Flankers still use Rd-33 and improved variants if I'm not mistaking.

You may argue that situation and dynamics of Russia are different then that of United States or Europe. I'll respectably disagree as each nation looks more towards its national interests. In this case, its a chopper engine and, not a jet or missile engine. Military helicopters at best play a supportive role in anti-tank warfare during war times, anti-insurgency ops during peace -or even war- times and, are meant as a defensive instruments rather then oppressive. A lone helicopter won't venture into an enemy state to carry out bombardment sorties on targets of strategic value or nuke 'em for that matter. It's strictly a defensive machine. . . Now compared to that, US just approved selling of 13 Jordanian F-16s which actually CAN be used to carry out deep strike missions inside enemy territory! How'd that come about? Not to forget the pending fate of $6-7 Billion dollar worth of leftover Afghan war equipment and EDA, which is strongly hinted/confirmed as coming to Pakistan.

Now you may raise an objection that the examples I mentioned in reference to US, are actually equipment wholly solely built or manufactured there (USA). Thus, money (if paid) goes directly to US or if not then, US influence still stays strong. But, just like the RD-93, Russia doesn't pull out because it'd be unwise to strain relationships with China (1), incur losses on Russian company in the process (2) and, loose any hope of building new relations with Pakistan -a nuclear powered and very strategically placed geopolitical Muslim country, where anti-USA sentiment is at an all time high- on heels of ever increasing Indian tilt towards America for its arms purchas or nuclear deals (3). So is true for America as if it so hinders the deal then, it'll surely cause Pakistan to move further away from it, which will prove disastrous as it'll mean the loss of the biggest and most powerful non-NATO Muslim ally armed with Nuclear weapons (1), straining of yet an other NATO Muslim ally, i.e., Turkey (2), remorse from Rolls Royce and Europe (3). Simply put, it'll be one the biggest diplomatic disaster in US history (if I'm not over exaggerating) and, a huge blow to U.S Foreign policy.

The best U.S can do is offer Pakistan a better deal. Something Pakistan can't refuse. And as things are right now, that is exactly what U.S seems to be doing as confirmed by Allen Warnes. But, there is NO WAY U.S is going to threat this deal with looming sword of sanctions. It just can't afford to.

Therefore, I think its in our best interest to stand fast and not buckle under pressure. That's my two cents on the matter anyway. Sorry for the long post .

 

[airmarshal]

T-129 may be a new and unproven platform

T-129 is actually A-129, an AugustaWestland helicopter built under license in Turkey. So its not totally unproven.

Its unproven if you compare it to Americans. But the only war proven platforms in the world are US sourced as US is the only country which goes and fights other nations.