Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[GriffinsRule]

Z-10ME solves the core issues raised by PAA.

I believe the PAA has ordered a number of Z-10s, but I'm unsure if they're the Z-10ME or the current-model Z-10. I say this because the PAA wants these choppers very, very soon. So, they may not be much different from those the PAA tested in 2015-2016. In other words, a stopgap (until Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400).

It'd be odd for the PAA to suddenly buy either Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400. It would need to test both helicopters to (1) ensure they meet the hot/high requirements, (2) desert ops requirements, and (3) range requirements. Yes on paper both might look good, but we still need to test them in Pakistan.

So, all in all, I'm inclined to believe that (1) a Z-10 order has taken place, but (2) it's for the current variant, not the Z-10ME. The Z-10ME may come, but I think the PAA will again trial it out, and the ATAK w/TS1400 will get a chance as well.

That said, the mmW-guided AGM and miniature cruise missile are both really cool features of the Z-10ME. So, besides the improved performance parameters, the added capabilities could tilt the PAA towards China this time around. Alternatively, the PAA can also split requirements -- i.e., Z-10ME for long-range, desert ops and ATAK for high-altitude (especially if the TS1400 offers more power).

Is your belief based on anything? We clearly had the Army come out and say they are giving Turkey another year grace period to sort out the engine issue. Why would we be ordering the Z-10 in any token numbers or not? Heck, if we are so desperate for a chopper, should order and induct more Mi-35s, as at least we have those in service.

China has been a great source of weapons to us, but that does not mean we ought to take every single thing they produce even if it does not meet the requirements or our standards.

And I also dont see any cause for a rush to buy an anti-tank heli esp since the war on terror inside Pakistan has been wrapped up mostly and the demand for counter insurgency ops is just not there as it were 4-5 years ago. Pakistan can afford to wait and it should.

If we do order Z-10, imo it would be a great disservice to Pakistan. We will have in a very small PAA fleet 4 different attack helicopters from 4 different manufacturers with zero compatibility in any weapons or systems.

AH-1F
Mi-35
AH-1Z (wishful though some would have us believe they are already in Pakistan)
Z-10 (hope it never happens)
T-129 (if this is just a "stop gap" then another Turkish helo in the future)

This is a totally ridiculous fleet and a mess when it comes to support, training and ops.
We simply need 2 choppers at most in this role for diversification purposes.
The heavy can be AH-1Z and T129 fit the bill perfectly in this regard. The Mi-35 was another terrible choice the army made and hopefully they will not order more of that antique. We can donate them to the new Afghan government once it comes to power for all I could care.

 

[Zarvan]

Z-10ME solves the core issues raised by PAA.

I believe the PAA has ordered a number of Z-10s, but I'm unsure if they're the Z-10ME or the current-model Z-10. I say this because the PAA wants these choppers very, very soon. So, they may not be much different from those the PAA tested in 2015-2016. In other words, a stopgap (until Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400).

It'd be odd for the PAA to suddenly buy either Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400. It would need to test both helicopters to (1) ensure they meet the hot/high requirements, (2) desert ops requirements, and (3) range requirements. Yes on paper both might look good, but we still need to test them in Pakistan.

So, all in all, I'm inclined to believe that (1) a Z-10 order has taken place, but (2) it's for the current variant, not the Z-10ME. The Z-10ME may come, but I think the PAA will again trial it out, and the ATAK w/TS1400 will get a chance as well.

That said, the mmW-guided AGM and miniature cruise missile are both really cool features of the Z-10ME. So, besides the improved performance parameters, the added capabilities could tilt the PAA towards China this time around. Alternatively, the PAA can also split requirements -- i.e., Z-10ME for long-range, desert ops and ATAK for high-altitude (especially if the TS1400 offers more power).

After DG ISPR press conference INSHALLAH it's safe to close the chapter of Z 10 ME. T 129 will be arriving. And if T 129 is coming that means USA would have also cleared Zulu helicopter to us. So the reports of them arriving is most likely true also.

@PanzerKiel @Ark_Angel @Blacklight @SQ8 @Tipu7

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Not anymore Turkey don't. Congress sanctioned Turkey. Turkey can't even buy any new tanks or planes or warships or subs since 2016.

Turkey is a NATO member and still be able to get more respect from the northern Iraqi Kurds.
Turkey is no longer what does that mean it's over? Can you tell us on which product we are specifically embargoed, except for the F35?
Which product did we request from America and didn't pass the congress? Keep fooling yourself with your no-nonsense information.

 

[Viper27]

After DG ISPR press conference INSHALLAH it's safe to close the chapter of Z 10 ME. T 129 will be arriving. And if T 129 is coming that means USA would have also cleared Zulu helicopter to us. So the reports of them arriving is most likely true also.

@PanzerKiel @Ark_Angel @Blacklight @SQ8 @Tipu7

What did the DG ISPR say that makes you come to that conclusion?

 

[Zarvan]

What did the DG ISPR say that makes you come to that conclusion?

The issue of engines almost resolved.

 

[Zarvan]

What did the DG ISPR say that makes you come to that conclusion?

Listen from 40th minute.

 

[Viper27]

Listen from 40th minute.

His response was quite evasive. All he said was "there's progress". That could mean anything.

 

[Zarvan]

His response was quite evasive. All he said was "there's progress". That could mean anything.

The reporter answered himself in the question that is why DG ISPR didn't went in details. And no the answer was clear. Issue is pretty much resolved.

 

[Viper27]

The reporter answered himself in the question that is why DG ISPR didn't went in details. And no the answer was clear. Issue is pretty much resolved.

No one answered anything. It could mean the issue has been resolved but most likely means that things are being negotiated.

 

[araz]

Gentlemen.
Can we please stop this dick measuring contest. This is a thread about T129 not the Z10ME. Please confine your posts-to the topic. It is really irritating to see people arguing over this vs that when we have specific threads on the 2 helicopters.
This is a request from me for my own sanity.
A

 

[Signalian]

That said, the mmW-guided AGM and miniature cruise missile are both really cool features of the Z-10ME.

This statement reminds of SEAD/DEAD Ops by AH-64 in opening hours of First Gulf war.

 

[Blacklight]

After DG ISPR press conference INSHALLAH it's safe to close the chapter of Z 10 ME. T 129 will be arriving. And if T 129 is coming that means USA would have also cleared Zulu helicopter to us. So the reports of them arriving is most likely true also.

@PanzerKiel @Ark_Angel @Blacklight @SQ8 @Tipu7

In all probability, T-129 will not come with an American engine.

 

[Tipu7]

In all probability, T-129 will not come with an American engine.

And the alternative is?
Any other engine mean restarting of entire evaluation and testing process.
(French Turkish relations are tense)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is your belief based on anything? We clearly had the Army come out and say they are giving Turkey another year grace period to sort out the engine issue. Why would we be ordering the Z-10 in any token numbers or not? Heck, if we are so desperate for a chopper, should order and induct more Mi-35s, as at least we have those in service.

It's based on info from a credible person (which I don't throw around lightly).

It could be a situation where we're just leasing a few Z-10Es to shore-up numbers and to hold as a stopgap until we induct the Z-10ME and/or ATAK (with TS1400).

 

[Colonel_Hardstone]

DG ISPR Briefing 13th of August 2020

40:51: Sir...Pakistan had signed a deal with Turkey to purchase 30 T-129s but United Stated had expressed some reservations. Now we are hearing that both Pakistan and Turkey are close to resolving the issue with United States, would you be able to update us on the progress being made on this issue?

DG ISPR: The update is the one which you have already alluded to in your question, there is positive progress and there are no issues on that front.