Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Tipu7]

There are no objective assessments of Z-10 in PDF, just like what VT-4 used to suffer.
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It's not wise to compare a tank project with helicopter project. I doubt there is any body here who can votch for reliability of Z10 or its 'great' performance during trials.
China has progressed very well in several departments, but is struggling in few also.
Pakistan's 80% Armor fleet is of Chinese origin. Because China has progressed well in this direction and minor shorcomings can be countered by sourcing better systems from Non Chinese sources.
In helicopters however, there is mere one Squadron of Chinese helicopter operational in Navy, that is Z9C which itself is a troublesome helicopter. Rest, neither Air Force nor Army operate any fleet of Chinese origin helicopter.
Reasons, I have mentioned above.

 

[beijingwalker]

At least Pakistan doesn't need to fear "sanctions" from China, as it has from America over then 60 years.

I think this time US is sanctioning Turkey, Pakistan is just a collateral damage.

 

[LKJ86]

It's not wise to compare a tank project with helicopter project.

Who really knows?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Z-10ME solves the core issues raised by PAA.

I believe the PAA has ordered a number of Z-10s, but I'm unsure if they're the Z-10ME or the current-model Z-10. I say this because the PAA wants these choppers very, very soon. So, they may not be much different from those the PAA tested in 2015-2016. In other words, a stopgap (until Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400).

It'd be odd for the PAA to suddenly buy either Z-10ME or ATAK w/TS1400. It would need to test both helicopters to (1) ensure they meet the hot/high requirements, (2) desert ops requirements, and (3) range requirements. Yes on paper both might look good, but we still need to test them in Pakistan.

So, all in all, I'm inclined to believe that (1) a Z-10 order has taken place, but (2) it's for the current variant, not the Z-10ME. The Z-10ME may come, but I think the PAA will again trial it out, and the ATAK w/TS1400 will get a chance as well.

That said, the mmW-guided AGM and miniature cruise missile are both really cool features of the Z-10ME. So, besides the improved performance parameters, the added capabilities could tilt the PAA towards China this time around. Alternatively, the PAA can also split requirements -- i.e., Z-10ME for long-range, desert ops and ATAK for high-altitude (especially if the TS1400 offers more power).

 

[Tipu7]

Who really knows?

For that we have to wait and see.
VT4 is coming because it outperformed both Oplot and AK during trials.

Z10, however, was rejected. It has received a second fighting chance only due to blockade of engine export licenses of T129.

PA will choose Z10 or any of its advance variant only if T129 engine issue fails to rectify. Then, Z10ME will most probably be Army's choice. But if both T129B and Z10ME will be available, Pakistan will still choose T129B any day

 

[LKJ86]

For that we have to wait and see.
VT4 is coming because it outperformed both Oplot and AK during trials.

Z10, however, was rejected. It has received a second fighting chance only due to blockade of engine export licenses of T129.

PA will choose Z10 or any of its advance variant only if T129 engine issue fails to rectify. Then, Z10ME will most probably be Army's choice. But if both T129B and Z10ME will be available, Pakistan will still choose T129B any day

Pakistan buys corvettes from Turkey, not meaning that China can't provide a better option.
It is the same to gunship.

 

[Tipu7]

Pakistan buys corvettes from Turkey, not meaning that China can't provide a better option.
It is the same to gunship.

I have mentioned this argument already.

China has progressed very well in several departments, but is struggling in few also.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan, Turkey and US have made some positive progress over T129 helicopter sale. DGISPR

Can anyone give exact time during press conference he said it. Because I can't find it.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Pakistan buys corvettes from Turkey, not meaning that China can't provide a better option.
It is the same to gunship.

Pakistan prefers to buy from Turkey. Turkey is Muslim country.

 

[mingle]

Pakistan prefers to buy from Turkey. Turkey is Muslim country.

Wrong analogy Pak has a real enemy sitting on our eastside and invisible enemy sitting on westside shape of TTP So what ever weapon system Pak purchase it goes through vigrous trials T129 passed all the requirements for PAA and passed the test so Z10 failed in few parameters so now they fix those will go in trail again and if pass Army will buy them

 

[PeacefulWar]

There is not need to argue as we don't have much info of lastest z-10 yet.
China has suffered engine performance issue of helicopters in high altitudes areas in past. This is very well acknowledged in Chinese military community.
This issue is partly because this was not our core/priority requirement before.
But now with the escalation with India in past few years, this is not the case anymore. Performance in plateau is a priority now. Plus a lot of new engine improvement/breakthrough in last decade, engine performance in plateau areas at least won't be bottlenecks anymore for China.

Now whether it is on par with US engine, I'm not sure and not very optimistic about this.
But all in all, the most important thing is it won't be a bottleneck and can get job done.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan prefers to buy from Turkey. Turkey is Muslim country.

That is not the reason for GOD sake. Grow up. Turkey is part of NATO therefore had access to advance western technology along with more powerful engines. T 129 performed and satisfied our boys Z 10 didn't. So please stop doing childish posts.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

That is not the reason for GOD sake. Grow up. Turkey is part of NATO therefore had access to advance western technology along with more powerful engines. T 129 performed and satisfied our boys Z 10 didn't. So please stop doing childish posts.

Not anymore Turkey don't. Congress sanctioned Turkey. Turkey can't even buy any new tanks or planes or warships or subs since 2016.

 

[Figaro]

There is not need to argue as we don't have much info of lastest z-10 yet.
China has suffered engine performance issue of helicopters in high altitudes areas in past. This is very well acknowledged in Chinese military community.
This issue is partly because this was not our core/priority requirement before.
But now with the escalation with India in past few years, this is not the case anymore. Performance in plateau is a priority now. Plus a lot of new engine improvement/breakthrough in last decade, engine performance in plateau areas at least won't be bottlenecks anymore for China.

Now whether it is on par with US engine, I'm not sure and not very optimistic about this.
But all in all, the most important thing is it won't be a bottleneck and can get job done.

The Z-10s produced in the past couple of years have an uprated WZ-9 engine with around 1100 kW of power, higher than the 900 kW of the original. This should have solved the issues the quite a bit, which is why we see the newer Z-10s having more armored plating and are conducting frequent exercises on the Tibetan plateau. As LKJ pointed out, the frequency of the Z-10s conducting missions on these high plateaus should show that high altitude performance has increased with the latest models. As for Pakistan purchasing the Z-10, we shall see since I recall a couple of years ago everyone was saying it had poor performance and the Pakistani Army would never purchase it. Look what happened now.

 

[Zarvan]

Not anymore Turkey don't. Congress sanctioned Turkey. Turkey can't even buy any new tanks or planes or warships or subs since 2016.

T 129 was already developed way before those sanctions and DG ISPR also stated our engine issue also close to being resolved.