Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Aamir Hussain]

The offer of an enhanced power plant was there even at the time of its hot & high testing phase out of Multan Aviation Base.

But PA did extensive eval in FATA, and in Baluchistan and returned the helo on account of:

Under powered engine, Climb rate falling off rapidly after 4,000 meters, lack of pilot safety armor, absence of MAWS, RWR, issues with slaving sight, Heat signature and dust sensitization of engine inlet/cowling. There were couple of other points, but cant divulge them here.

While most of the issues highlighted by PA were incorporated in the "Upgrade" the engine rating tests in field need to be done including the cuing and slaving sight. The difference between power plant of Z-10C and Atak 129 is roughly 11 Shp but the bleed off was much higher even after compensating for difference in take off weights.

My 2C worth

 

[LKJ86]

Z-10ME incorporates a new, higher-output turboshaft 1200 kW engine compared with the Z-10's 935 kW.

And Z-20 about 10 tons is equipped with a more powerful engine.

 

[thunderkaka]

Under powered engine, Climb rate falling off rapidly after 4,000 meters, lack of pilot safety armour, absence of MAWS, RWR, issues with slaving sight, Heat signature and dust sensitization of engine inlet/cowling. There were couple of other points, but cant divulge them here.

Which helicopter are you referring to here, Z-10C or Atak 129?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Which helicopter are you referring to here, Z-10C or Atak 129?

Z-10C and not Z-10ME

 

[araz]

You can say your piece without insulting anyone! The offer of an enhanced power plant was there even at the time of its hot& high testing phase out of Multan Aviation Base (Yes I do know the meaning of Hot & High too!!).

But PA did extensive eval in FATA, and in Balochistan and returned the helo on account of:

Under powered engine, Climb rate falling off rapidly after 4,000 meters, lack of pilot safety armour, absence of MAWS, RWR, issues with slaving sight, Heat signature and dust sensitization of engine inlet/cowling. There were couple of other points, but cant divulge them here.

While most of the issues highlighted by PA were incorporated in the "Upgrade" the engine rating tests in field need to be done including the cuing and slaving sight. The difference between powerplant of Z-10C and Atak 129 is roughly 11 Shp but the bleed off was much higher even after compensating for difference in take off weights.

My 2C worth and I do expect and in return give respect to fellow members who I do not agree with.

A great post. A pleasure to read posts which are informative coming from you .
Kind regards
A

 

[Aamir Hussain]

A great post. A pleasure to read posts which are informative coming from you .
Kind regards
A

Sir as always, it is a pleasure to see you active on the forum and read your insightful and honest evaluation of happenings around us. They might not be popular but they are the truth.

I am on this Forum because of people like you and some others!

Warm regards,

Aamir

 

[thunderkaka]

Z-10C and not Z-10ME

Btw, did Pakistan army ever test Atak 129 and encounter any problems during trial?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Love to see T 129 in Pak Army but still future of procurement is not clear.
Pakistan should also check Z 10 ME as alternative product available to us.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Love to see T 129 in Pak Army but still future of procurement is not clear.
Pakistan should also check Z 10 ME as alternative product available to us.

Agreed but PAA was not much impressed with the overall performance of the helo. Now an improved version is in, maybe they can do another round of testing.

Love to see T 129 in Pak Army but still future of procurement is not clear.
Pakistan should also check Z 10 ME as alternative product available to us.

Sadly I am not privy to the Atak testing program. But I have heard that it was the best option out of what was available after AH 1Z Viper. PAA was and is gung ho on AH 1Z.

 

[CHI RULES]

Agreed but PAA was not much impressed with the overall performance of the helo. Now an improved version is in, maybe they can do another round of testing.


Sadly I am not privy to the Atak testing program. But I have heard that it was the best option out of what was available after AH 1Z Viper. PAA was and is gung ho on AH 1Z.

Sir it's easy to blame defense related officials for bribes from US but still fact remains there that still their is no substitute of US technology even if it is older, the other countries like Turkey, China and Russia though trying to meet the capabilities of USA but still lack in certain areas.
In the past it was US technology which helped Pak to repel Russian/Afghan intruding jets in the past and in current times IAF is still pretty much threatened by the F16s.

Pakistan should try to get AH1z and if all attempts fail then they should go for heavy attack helicopter from Russia. The T129 or Z10 ME should be acquired to be used in combo with heavy ones. In my humble opinion considering new threats the A2A capabilities should also be there in any upcoming platform as Apache and Indian LCH are having this capability.

 

[Mrc]

V need helis now

 

[Beast]

Agreed but PAA was not much impressed with the overall performance of the helo. Now an improved version is in, maybe they can do another round of testing.


Sadly I am not privy to the Atak testing program. But I have heard that it was the best option out of what was available after AH 1Z Viper. PAA was and is gung ho on AH 1Z.

Do take note T-129K is a 3.6tons Helo and lacking armour vs a 5tons Z-10. I doubt turkey has some super material that can make up for the extra 1.4tons of weight mostly going into armour the helo.

 

[doorstar]

Do take note T-129K is a 3.6tons Helo and lacking armour vs a 5tons Z-10. I doubt turkey has some super material that can make up for the extra 1.4tons of weight mostly going into armour the helo.

not only that but they are NOT allowed to sell it to Pakistan.

Pakistan is left with 3 choices
America:Bell AH-1Z Viper @ US$27 million + deals stopped midway +blackmailing and withholding parts and service at crucial moments.

Russia:Mi-25 and Mi-35, not available in any meaningful numbers

China: Z 10 ME @ US$ 17 million, as many as needed, whenever wanted/required, never vulnerable to bharati lobbying

 

[Great Janjua]

not only that but they are NOT allowed to sell it to Pakistan.

Pakistan is left with 3 choices
America:Bell AH-1Z Viper @ US$27 million + deals stopped midway +blackmailing and withholding parts and service at crucial moments.

Russia:Mi-25 and Mi-35, not available in any meaningful numbers

China: Z 10 ME @ US$ 17 million, as many as needed, whenever wanted/required, never vulnerable to bharati lobbying

What do you mean not allowed you crackhead the deal is done pilot training is gonna be in a few months

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Aamir Hussain @araz @Imran Khan
What about South African Denel AH-2 Rooivalk?
It may be a costly but with complete ToT it seems promising.