Pakistan army pays heavy price in Taliban war

[ramu]

War with hindustan is always Pakistan's war...
When hindustanio army was fighting along side northern alliance it was clear that they are trying to open a new front in the north of Pakistan, which they failed for yeras.
After Kargil war Israelis and Indians really got worried and staged september 11 2001 drama and their smart bush announced to attack Afghanistan in otherwords support northern alliance in opening war front with Pakistan.
Now we are facing cover hindustani war at our northern borders.
Pakistan need to reply hindustanis in even coin.

Brilliant !

I actually got my drink into my wind pipe and could not stop laughing.
You made the most hilarious post ever!



I was worried about Pakistanio delusion but not any more.

 

[deckingraj]

Do you agree that if india decreases troops level at the LoC there might be another Kargil..??


N.B. Cut the crap.

Seems like you are not interested in conversation.....Either i should agree with you or shutup..right??? Anyways its a Pakistani centric thread so i won't bother you anymore....

 

[deckingraj]

I will be more than happen to satisfy your queries.

Thanks Kakgeta...I appreciate it...

I do, then we could reserve more men and material for the western front but it is also true that India is our neighbour and with the world's 4th largest military and our history full of conflicts and exploitation(Operation Gibraltar from our side and India's training of Mukti Bahini) , it is quite the threat for us, so to sum it up, yes, if we were not bound by our eastern front we could clean the west up in a matter of months but truth remains that we have to be vary of India.

Yes you are right....You got to be vary of India...Which brings back to the same assertion of mine that at the moment Pakistan needs peace with India more than what India needs....Do you agree here???

To that I disagree, the men who are lost are not lost because they do not have adequate back up or supplies, it's just that sometimes the Taliban get something to celebrate about as well.

Ummm don't you think more freed up resources will help in taking care of cases where your soldiers asked for help and help could not be provided in time??? Wasn't lack of support the reason behind capture of 35 PA troops???

According to military science In an insurgency(or guerilla warfare), numbers and technological advantage are multiplied by zero, see, even if we were the world's largest military, there would only be a hundred or so men on that border picket, and the Taliban can disguise themselves in the local population, so now imagine 500 taliban pouncing at you from every direction, not the most pleasant of sights, and they don't give you enough time to call for back up, they are smarter then that, they attack and try to over run the post, if they can, fine, if they can't, they never hesitate to retreat.
As for nullifying the technological advantage, if we can track their calls, they don't use phones, we can track their e-mails, they won't use the computers, we can detect the metal in their IEDs, they will start putting in marble. So they can defeat high tech, by going low tech.

I know that Kalkeda....I have read history and know what happened in Vietnam, AF - Russia and now AF- Nato....However what i am questioning the number of troops that you have lost in WOT.....You have lost more men then NATO itself even though they are operating in Foreign Land whereas PA in their backyard....and you can bring down the numbers and be more effective if somehow you can free up resources from eastern border....the only thing that stops from it is bad relations with India....

We want better relations more than anything but finds such as vickers machine guns, 2007 made Indian ammo, 4 tonnes of Indian medicines and over 500 parcels of RDX, Semtex and C4 in the hands of the taliban, really make us uneasy and puts a HUGE question mark over India's commitment to maintain peaceful relations with Pakistan.

Exactly my point....The same can be said about things we find in Kashmir...Mumbai Attacks and what not.....how do you see those actions??? The things that you are calling proofs are being shown from past 2 decades in Kashmir which are rebuked by your govt. all the time....Anyways point being it is you who need peace with India more then what India need as of now....The latest step by Pakistan to share voice samples is a welcome step....Lets hope for the best....

Aaaaahhhhh.........the classic, my terrorist, your terrorist story, see, the LeT was banned back in 2002, so we can't really operate against an organization that had ceased to exist 8 years ago, it's trying to kill the dead, it's impossible.

And then you say that there is a question mark over India's commitment....Problem is complete denial that such groups exist in Pakistan....LET is banned ...groups rename to JUD and everything goes the same way...and here my friend says that we can't kill the dead....


Anyways to be honest i feel for the troops that are being killed for no reason....IA men in Kashmir....PA men in WOT are being sacrificed in ugly games called Diplomacy....Ironically neither India/Pak has gained/lost even an inch of territory in Kashmir yet for some reason the conflict in ON......

 

[RescueRanger]

Well these losses are brave sacrifices. The dividends will be collected well into the future for our children and their children's children. These actions we do today, so that others may live tomorrow.

Amen.

 

[Icarus]

Yes you are right....You got to be vary of India...Which brings back to the same assertion of mine that at the moment Pakistan needs peace with India more than what India needs....Do you agree here???

We do need peace and up till 26/11, everything was going great but the sudden change in policy towards Pakistan after 26/11 was threatening, although we need better relations to free up troops, we can't be sure how India will react if there is another terrorist attack on it's soil, remember the famous quotes such as:
"We are ready for a limited nuclear war with Pakistan"
"One more attack originating from Pakistan and then we will make sure ourselves that no such attack occurs"
How can we hope to move men away from the border when India is always prepared, we would rather die on two fronts than to be caught with are pants down on any one.

Ummm don't you think more freed up resources will help in taking care of cases where your soldiers asked for help and help could not be provided in time??? Wasn't lack of support the reason behind capture of 35 PA troops???

What I was saying was that even if they had more men, the number of troops on that picket would have been the same, they were there to stop infiltration from the Afghan border, they weren't participating in a military op, that's why they were not armed to the teeth like other soldiers are, how ever the Taliban identified them as an easy target and over run them. Although maybe, they had given enough time for cobras to be dispatched(not sure since that was not my AoR) but usually the Talib attacks are so quick that they are long gone before back up can arrive, whether they succeed in their objectives or not.

I know that Kalkeda....I have read history and know what happened in Vietnam, AF - Russia and now AF- Nato....However what i am questioning the number of troops that you have lost in WOT.....You have lost more men then NATO itself even though they are operating in Foreign Land whereas PA in their backyard....and you can bring down the numbers and be more effective if somehow you can free up resources from eastern border....the only thing that stops from it is bad relations with India....

We have had greater casualties because we have had to clear all the compounds on foot, every inch of land was reclaimed by foot, we kept air strikes to a minimum to avoid civilian casualties, in that effort I am proud to say we were largely successful.

Exactly my point....The same can be said about things we find in Kashmir...Mumbai Attacks and what not.....how do you see those actions??? The things that you are calling proofs are being shown from past 2 decades in Kashmir which are rebuked by your govt. all the time....Anyways point being it is you who need peace with India more then what India need as of now....The latest step by Pakistan to share voice samples is a welcome step....Lets hope for the best....

Like I said, we have a history of exploitation, the moment GoP and GoI realize that confidence building is the way forward rather then trying to break each others country, we will be living in a better sub-continent.

And then you say that there is a question mark over India's commitment....Problem is complete denial that such groups exist in Pakistan....LET is banned ...groups rename to JUD and everything goes the same way...and here my friend says that we can't kill the dead....

JuD is a charity to be honest with you, they have ambulance services, orphanages, schools, madrassahs, hospitals, I don't know whether they planned and carried out the 26/11 attack but until they are proven to have done so by court I cannot say anything.

Anyways to be honest i feel for the troops that are being killed for no reason....IA men in Kashmir....PA men in WOT are being sacrificed in ugly games called Diplomacy....Ironically neither India/Pak has gained/lost even an inch of territory in Kashmir yet for some reason the conflict in ON......

I agree, India should just hold that damn plebiscite in Kashmir, that's the only way this would end.

 

[கார்த்த&]

Aaaaahhhhh.........the classic, my terrorist, your terrorist story, see, the LeT was banned back in 2002, so we can't really operate against an organization that had ceased to exist 8 years ago, it's trying to kill the dead, it's impossible.

I would not have asked if any other Pakistani had said this....But u seem to be quite balanced and accept the reality so here i am..

yes the original Lashkar e toiba was banned in 2002...then it came under the avatar Lashkar e taiba...then it was banned then it simply started functioning under the parent name Jammat ud dawa.....

The original founders Hafiz sayeed,Lakhvi are all there giving hate speeches and threatening wars against India.

Still u maintain the belief the LeT is no more..?

The name LeT mite not be there..but its under a new mask and all is well with them.

This is not "ur terrorist.my terrorist" crap...terrorist is a terrorist.
Aren they accused of suporting the Punjabi Taliban and the Lashkar e Jhangvi..?

But y the hesitation to go after them..?

If u could convict any one of them...it would be a huge huge CBM than all these worthless talks put together.

 

[கார்த்த&]

I agree, India should just hold that damn plebiscite in Kashmir, that's the only way this would end.

Cmon friend...holding plebiscite is not an one-off thing.

It is dependent on Pakistan withdrawing its troops from the P-O-K and getting back the part given to China by ur country as the Plebiscite is supposed to be held in "all" disputed territories at the same time.


p.s.: But do u still think India will relent to the plebiscite which will result in the breaking of the Valley (not Jammu and Ladakh) either choosing independence (ironically the option is not there is the UN plebiscite) or joining Pakistan.??

 

[Icarus]

I would not have asked if any other Pakistani had said this....But u seem to be quite balanced and accept the reality so here i am..

yes the original Lashkar e toiba was banned in 2002...then it came under the avatar Lashkar e taiba...then it was banned then it simply started functioning under the parent name Jammat ud dawa.....

The original founders Hafiz sayeed,Lakhvi are all there giving hate speeches and threatening wars against India.

Still u maintain the belief the LeT is no more..?

The name LeT mite not be there..but its under a new mask and all is well with them.

This is not "ur terrorist.my terrorist" crap...terrorist is a terrorist.
Aren they accused of suporting the Punjabi Taliban and the Lashkar e Jhangvi..?

But y the hesitation to go after them..?

If u could convict any one of them...it would be a huge huge CBM than all these worthless talks put together.

Well, you see, JuD is a charity, Hafiz Saeed started his public anti-India speeches after India asked for him to be handed over. They run hospitals, orphanages, ambulances and schools for the poor, until they are proven otherwise, the law maintains that they are innocent. If he is found guilty in court, then he should most certainly be made to stand responsible for his actions but I personally don't believe JuD is capable of planing such a well planned attack.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Keep the discussion to the topic.

Kashmir can be discussed in relevant threads, no need to derail this thread.

 

[Icarus]

Cmon friend...holding plebiscite is not an one-off thing.

It is dependent on Pakistan withdrawing its troops from the P-O-K and getting back the part given to China by ur country as the Plebiscite is supposed to be held in "all" disputed territories at the same time.


p.s.: But do u still think India will relent to the plebiscite which will result in the breaking of the Valley (not Jammu and Ladakh) either choosing independence (ironically the option is not there is the UN plebiscite) or joining Pakistan.??

You must remember that the UN also called for withdrawal of Indian troops from IOK and deployment of UN troops in the area, as for the Chinese, they control only 5% of the total area of Kashmir and I don't believe they will hesitate to let it go. As for the choice of the people, it doesn't matter whether they choose freedom or to join us, that is not why we support them, as long as they look to us for help, I am afraid, we will have no choice but to support them.

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

Keep the discussion to the topic.

Kashmir can be discussed in relevant threads, no need to derail this thread.

Roger that Sir.

 

[Xeric]

Seems like you are not interested in conversation.....Either i should agree with you or shutup..right???

Feel free to differ, but with logic. Absurd reasoning will not get you anywhere.

Just because we need a few more men to 'reinforce' our posts on our west (though as if we need any) would not merit a troop withdrawal from our eastern front, not by any military sense. Nor do we are required to 'punch' them 'more heavier' as we are already beating out those 72 virgins out of them with enough force and vigor, the only problem is with the perception of the guys on our far west and near east!

Anyways its a Pakistani centric thread so i won't bother you anymore....

Like i said, that choice is all yours.

 

[hillman32]

Price is BLOOD & SWEAT

Product is PEACE.

 

[hillman32]

Price is BLOOD & SWEAT

Product is PEACE.

 

[Ahmad]

This was actually planned and implemented but the Afghan Government objected to it with USA.

CNN.com - Pakistan proposes Afghan border fence - Sep 12, 2005

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan progress on Afghan fence

The Afghanis took some of it off and there was skirmishes because of it. I guess they do not want to loose all the daily necessities and remittances from Afghans based in Pak.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Afghanistan 'border fence' clash

The fence construction was stalled and there are have been many calls by the government to continue work on it but with no avail.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan repeats call for fencing Afghan border

As soon as the NATO forces leave Afghanistan, we will go ahead with this plan. Sometimes I feel that we should forcefully remove the Afghani immigrants too but those who have been born and grown up here consider themselves to be Pakistani.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/58168-defining-afghanis-karachi-generation-later.html

I didnt open the links you posted, but i know what it is talking about. The first person who opposed to that plan was our president, his excuse was that the tribes will be devided by this fence on 2 sides of the border, but who care about the tribes if they are devided? why should we put the tribes wishes ahead of the entire region's stability? i personally believe that pakistan should go with building this fence, it will be in their soil and nobody can complain about it, there is rule of law and the UN, they can take their complain about this fence if they have anything credible to say. this fence will serve both nations well in the long run in terms of security.

 

[T-Faz]

I didnt open the links you posted, but i know what it is talking about. The first person who opposed to that plan was our president, his excuse was that the tribes will be devided by this fence on 2 sides of the border, but who care about the tribes if they are devided? why should we put the tribes wishes ahead of the entire region's stability? i personally believe that pakistan should go with building this fence, it will be in their soil and nobody can complain about it, there is rule of law and the UN, they can take their complain about this fence if they have anything credible to say. this fence will serve both nations well in the long run in terms of security.

This excuse was invalid, the tribes can pass through checkpoint of the gates that set up. This was in the best interest of the region but it faced great amount of opposition, I wonder why sometimes.

We proposed this in 2005 when the insurgency was still in its infancy and one of the reasons was that the BLA were freely moving back and forth between the borders. As a result of it not happening, we are standing here today with multiple cross border attacks.