Pakistan Army | News and Discussions

[fatman17]

we don't know them all.

but we owe them all. https://t.co/2YBGWbHe4U

 

[fatman17]

As Received. ....

Turkish ALTAY MBT: “Problems with ALTAY MBT & Why Pakistan Army Rejected ALTAY MBT”



Important Note: “Since we saw many Turkish Defense Pages Posting that their own delay in developing ALTAY MBT & less aggressive marketing resulted in Pakistan opting VT-4

[emoji630]. Well Dear Turkish

[emoji1250] Brothers here are the actual reasons why Pakistan Never Tested ALTAY”.

Altay is “Too Heavy” & weighs above 60 Tons (Approx. 65 Tons). Thus, it will create huge “Logistics Issue” for Pakistan Army & cannot be deployed in given time in case of war. Moreover, Pakistan’s terrain is mostly Desert (Sindh) & Mountainous (Upper Punjab). These regions need A bit lighter tank such as AK, AZ or VT-4.

Altay MBT uses 120 mm Smooth Bore Gun instead of 125 mm (since almost all Pakistan’s Tanks use 125 mm Smooth Bore Gun, all our ammunition including ATGM in reserve and in production are centric towards 100, 105 & 125 mm). Manufacturing or procuring new 120mm ammunition well take time, plus will cost too much money.

Altay uses 1500 hp BMC Batu German Engine. It is a good Engine but Pakistan-Germany relations in most recent past got bitter after defunct Submarine Deal. Turkey has planned its own 1800 hp Engine for Altay MBT but then again it will take time in development & who knows will it be as good as its counterpart.

Altay’s per unit Cost is more than USD $13.75 million & is on par with South Korean K-2 Black Panther in term of Cost.

 

[ghazi52]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1285557300279869441

 

[ghazi52]

July 22, 2020


Sheikh Saoud bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, Ambassador of Qatar called on General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Chief of Army Staff (COAS) at GHQ.

 

[ghazi52]

Capt Samuail Bashir of Pakistan Army has earned Rector’s Gold Medal in BSc from Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies (NIPCONS) Dept. of National University of Science & Technology (NUST), Islamabad. He is from 134 PMA L/C. The young officer belongs to Pakistan's Christian community.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

As Received. ....

Turkish ALTAY MBT: “Problems with ALTAY MBT & Why Pakistan Army Rejected ALTAY MBT”



Important Note: “Since we saw many Turkish Defense Pages Posting that their own delay in developing ALTAY MBT & less aggressive marketing resulted in Pakistan opting VT-4

[emoji630]. Well Dear Turkish

[emoji1250] Brothers here are the actual reasons why Pakistan Never Tested ALTAY”.

Altay is “Too Heavy” & weighs above 60 Tons (Approx. 65 Tons). Thus, it will create huge “Logistics Issue” for Pakistan Army & cannot be deployed in given time in case of war. Moreover, Pakistan’s terrain is mostly Desert (Sindh) & Mountainous (Upper Punjab). These regions need A bit lighter tank such as AK, AZ or VT-4.

Altay MBT uses 120 mm Smooth Bore Gun instead of 125 mm (since almost all Pakistan’s Tanks use 125 mm Smooth Bore Gun, all our ammunition including ATGM in reserve and in production are centric towards 100, 105 & 125 mm). Manufacturing or procuring new 120mm ammunition well take time, plus will cost too much money.

Altay uses 1500 hp BMC Batu German Engine. It is a good Engine but Pakistan-Germany relations in most recent past got bitter after defunct Submarine Deal. Turkey has planned its own 1800 hp Engine for Altay MBT but then again it will take time in development & who knows will it be as good as its counterpart.

Altay’s per unit Cost is more than USD $13.75 million & is on par with South Korean K-2 Black Panther in term of Cost.
View attachment 652990

IMO the post is unfair.

1. Not 100% convinced on the 'too heavy' argument. @blain2 can correct me, but the real issue with heavy tanks isn't the solely the our terrain but rather, the lack of supporting infrastructure. With VT4, the PA is clearly moving towards heavier MBTs, a sign that the region is gradually coming to support it. If/when India fully inducts Arjun, I think this will be less of an issue and there's little to stop the PA (except money) from pursuing a heavy.

2. 120 mm can be an issue. However, I again think there would've been a way to work around it by basically just stockpiling 120 mm shells off-the-shelf. The PAA does this for RBS-70 SAMs, for example. If the question was the need to support a 100 or so Altay MBTs, I don't think stockpiling would've been an issue.

3. Not convinced about the engine argument either. Germany has actually approved many defence export licenses to Pakistan as of late. It even greenlit the sale of RAMs (albeit that couldn't work out due to it being ITAR), which is a sign that most things are doable (e.g., RAS-72 MPA). I don't think the Germans would've blocked the sale of MTU engines to the PA for the Altay MBT.

IMHO ... the biggest block to an Altay sale was basically the fact that it hasn't entered serial production. You can't induct something that isn't rolling off the production line. So, it's a non-starter. If this had not been the issue, I do think we could've figured out a way to buy 100-150 of these MBTs (e.g., in small batches).

 

[blain2]

I think both you and FM sahib are converging on the same point. I believe the key issue for the Armored Corps is that heavier weight cannot be supported on most older bridges, roads, nullah crossings etc. The newer infrastructure is good for trafficability of heavy armor across cantonments in larger cities but the arterial areas are still limited. This is also the same issue that afflicts heavier Indian armor employment.

I think our armies typically sacrifice protection at the expense of mobility out of $ concerns. Otherwise the infrastructure in places that will be used as staging areas for armored operations can always be addressed.

Also keep in mind that even VT-4 is not a heavy MBT. With AK, we are at ~47 tons. VT-4 is 52 tons. Compared to that, a true heavy MBT like Leopard is 63 tons/M1A2 ~ 68 tons. So a very significant weight implication. Even on the main thoroughfares, a 68 ton tank on a transporter is putting significant stress, let alone the impact on the arterial infrastructure.

 

[fatman17]

Even during Zia era, the famous Abrams trials faced similar issues of weight, terrain esp desert and infrastructure. We can make nukes but constructing pullis / bridges over water courses remains a big problem. That was 1987, we're in 2020. No big picture thinking at all. Imagine rejecting a weapon system because our bridges are too small / weak to take the load. OTOH, it also denies the enemy rapid armour advance.

I think both you and FM sahib are converging on the same point. I believe the key issue for the Armored Corps is that heavier weight cannot be supported on most older bridges, roads, nullah crossings etc. The newer infrastructure is good for trafficability of heavy armor across cantonments in larger cities but the arterial areas are still limited. This is also the same issue that afflicts heavier Indian armor employment.

I think our armies typically sacrifice protection at the expense of mobility out of $ concerns. Otherwise the infrastructure in places that will be used as staging areas for armored operations can always be addressed.

Also keep in mind that even VT-4 is not a heavy MBT. With AK, we are at ~47 tons. VT-4 is 52 tons. Compared to that, a true heavy MBT like Leopard is 63 tons/M1A2 ~ 68 tons. So a very significant weight implication. Even on the main thoroughfares, a 68 ton tank on a transporter is putting significant stress, let alone the impact on the arterial infrastructure.

 

[volatile]

IMHO ... the biggest block to an Altay sale was basically the fact that it hasn't entered serial production. You can't induct something that isn't rolling off the production line. So, it's a non-starter. If this had not been the issue, I do think we could've figured out a way to buy 100-150 of these MBTs (e.g., in small batches).

T129 is different story ? Even the engine source is unreliable but still contract was signed ,May be ALTAY were over kill considering over limited budgets and seeking larger number

 

[Yasser76]

Even during Zia era, the famous Abrams trials faced similar issues of weight, terrain esp desert and infrastructure. We can make nukes but constructing pullis / bridges over water courses remains a big problem. That was 1987, we're in 2020. No big picture thinking at all. Imagine rejecting a weapon system because our bridges are too small / weak to take the load. OTOH, it also denies the enemy rapid armour advance.

You need to flip your thinking around. Lighter bridges are harder for Indian tanks to cross over and easier to destroy by engineers quickly. Our rivers and canals are great defensive tools.

 

[ghazi52]

Pakistan Army troops shot down an Indian spying quadcopter in Pandu Sector along LOC.‬
‪The quadcopter had intruded 200 meters on Pakistan’s side of the LOC. This is 10th Indian quadcopter shot down by Pakistan Army this year.

 

[ghazi52]

Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, Chief of Air Staff (CAS) called on General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Chief of Army Staff (COAS) at GHQ, today. During the meeting matters of professional interest were discussed.

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Windjammer]

Unique Tribute to Capt Isfand Yar Bukhari Shaheed 118LC ex 11FF, by his course mates.

They kept the central chair for him.

What an honor

 

[ghazi52]

COAS hails Pakistan Army, PLA as 'key components' of Pak-China relations

August 1, 2020
RAWALPINDI: Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa, on the 93rd anniversary of the founding of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA), has said both the countries militaries were key components of Pak-China strategic relations.

Celebrations were held at the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Saturday to mark the 93rd anniversary of the founding of the PLA . The event was attended by Defence Attaché at the Chinese embassy Major General Chen Wenrong and his delegation.

According to the military's media wing, DG ISPR Major General Babar Iftikhar welcomed the delegation to ISPR on behalf of COAS General Qamar Javed Bajwa. The DG ISPR also felicitated the PLA on the momentous occasion and conveyed compliments from the army chief and all ranks of armed forces to all the ranks of the PLA.

“Pakistan Army and PLA are the key components of Pak-China strategic relations and we are proud to be brothers in arms,” said the COAS Gen Qamar Bajwa.

Major General Chen Wenrong, speaking at the ceremony, said that the military relations between China and Pakistan have strengthened over the years.

"The two countries have forged an all-weather strategic partnership and China highly values the efforts made by Pakistan in all fields especially during COVID-19. China-Pakistan friendship will remain evergreen," said Major General Wenrong.

According to the ISPR, the Chinese general also expressed his gratitude for hosting the commemoration ceremony at the ISPR office.

Meanwhile, Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Yao Jing also sent a message of congratulations on PLA day. He emphasised that the Pakistan-China military relations are an important pillar of the strategic ties between the two countries.

"China looks forward to further expanding and enhancing military cooperation with Pakistan to make new contribution to the consolidation of bilateral relations and the maintenance of peace and stability in the region and beyond," said the Chinese envoy.

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

COAS visited troops deployed on frontlines along the Line of Control (LOC) in Khuiratta Sector.

•Aug 1, 2020


General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Chief of Army Staff (COAS) visited troops deployed on frontlines along the Line of Control (LOC) in Khuiratta Sector. COAS spent time with troops on Eid day, commended their high morale, operational readiness and continuous vigil being maintained along the LOC. While interacting with troops, COAS said that Eid-ul-Azha epitomises the essence of unconditional sacrifice. No one understands this spirit of sacrifice better than a soldier.Let us also reiterate our pledge to always stand by our Kashmiri brethren braving Indian atrocities for their right of self-determination despite all odds. COAS said that we are aware of the enemy’s design to destabilise our country and this region. Pakistan Army is fully prepared and capable of thwarting any such covert or overt undertakings. Corps Commander Rawalpindi Corps, Lieutenant General Azhar Abbas received COAS at the LOC. Later, COAS also visited AFIC and NIHD (Armed Forces Institute of Cardiology And National Institute of Heart Diseases)and performed earth breaking of NEPCARD (NIHD Centre of Excellence in Prevention and Cardiovascular Research and Development) where indigenous research on heart diseases will be carried out including their preventive measures . Appreciating contributions of Army Medical Corps, COAS said that AFIC and NIHD being state of the art facility is providing high quality medical care at National level. He especially lauded the contribution of doctors and healthcare workers as frontline soldiers against COVID 19 pandemic. Earlier, Lieutenant General Muhammad Aamer, Adjutant General Pakistan Army and Lieutenant General Nigar Johar, Surgeon General Pakistan Army received the COAS on arrival at AFIC & NIHD.