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Pakistan army knew about operation against Osama bin Laden

these things are "AFTER" ... first ... where are REAL FOOTAGE, Photos, Video of OBL operation.. we are talking about Pakistan failure american riad blaa blaa but the Question is. .... is that OBL really KILLED on that operation or not ??? Its pure TOPI DRAMA... To show failure and blame on Pakistan, Obama election.. Pentagon respect Question 10 years of WAR without objective and many many things.... Unfortuntly this Drama will neva work! very FIRST QUESTION IS ... OSAMA was there (in reality) or not! where are the real footage ?
 
The question arises here after so many threads being related to whether pakistan knew about the operation or Pakistan Army and ISI were escorting OBL?
The answer could be very well summed up in following lines. Either Pak army& ISI betrayed OBL, or they betrayed U.S.A.

Or maybe the US flew OBL in from Afghanistan into the house (not saying this is true lol)? But the two conclusions you have come out with (highlighted in bold) are too simplistic, & require the US version to be completely correct as a pre-requisite, which might not be true at all as based on their contradictory accounts. Let's wait for all the evidence to come out in the public, including the photos of his body, the video of him getting killed in the operation & many other things, & then we can talk. I'm not saying that the US version is wrong, I'm just asking you to hold your horses & wait for the facts to come out. :cheers:
 
O people how i can tell you original story.:P
But still a little tid bid.
Planing of this op is going on from last year.All things start after a mobile sim.
And isi give the number of that sim to cia.
Actually it is far more superior move of isi compared to rd:bounce:
:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:
 
It is very difficult to determine how much the Pakistani defence establishment knew both about the US special operation or about the location of Bin Laden.

However, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the PA and ISI did not know what is happening - otherwise, why did they let the Americans to do it and not capturing Bin Laden themselves?

If the Army was concerned about the public reaction, why it did not stop it from capturing other senior Al Qaeda members and even turned them over to the US?

Other option - the security forces could capture Bin Laden and then claim that he was captured in the tribal area - why to let the Americans to conduct this operation that was bound to poorly reflect on the PA when it is already struggling on the principle of sovereignty? The American operation presented the Army in its incompetence: it cannot capture Bin Laden and it even cannot defend the country from external penetration.

Furthermore, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the Army/ISI knew where Bin Laden is hiding. It just does not make any sense that he was there for years (!) just under their noses and they did not know. In some reports in the Pakistani media, the ISI admits it knew about the location of Bin Laden at least for many months before the operation - why did they do nothing?

My guess is (which is good as any one else) is that the ISI protected Bin Laden in order to use him in the future for a huge reward from the US - perhaps a nuclear deal? some advanced weaponry? Maybe holding Bin Laden was aimed to deprive the US from any achievement in the WOT? I do not know, but I believe this is the Army's way of thinking.

Of course, the obvious reason for protecting Bin Laden is the ISI's close contacts with terror organisations like LET, JEM and the Haqqani network. The ISI probably did not want to harm its relations with them by surrendering Bin Laden to the Americans. It protected him and helped to hide him, so he would not be found in Pakistan and embarrassed the country.

The same practice of the ISI was implemented towards Mula Omar, the Taliban leader - it was revealed in Wikileaks that the ISI knew were he is located, but they refused to discuss it with the Americans.
 
It is very difficult to determine how much the Pakistani defence establishment knew both about the US special operation or about the location of Bin Laden.

However, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the PA and ISI did not know what is happening - otherwise, why did they let the Americans to do it and not capturing Bin Laden themselves?

If the Army was concerned about the public reaction, why it did not stop it from capturing other senior Al Qaeda members and even turned them over to the US?

Other option - the security forces could capture Bin Laden and then claim that he was captured in the tribal area - why to let the Americans to conduct this operation that was bound to poorly reflect on the PA when it is already struggling on the principle of sovereignty? The American operation presented the Army in its incompetence: it cannot capture Bin Laden and it even cannot defend the country from external penetration.

Furthermore, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the Army/ISI knew where Bin Laden is hiding. It just does not make any sense that he was there for years (!) just under their noses and they did not know. In some reports in the Pakistani media, the ISI admits it knew about the location of Bin Laden at least for many months before the operation - why did they do nothing?

My guess is (which is good as any one else) is that the ISI protected Bin Laden in order to use him in the future for a huge reward from the US - perhaps a nuclear deal? some advanced weaponry? Maybe holding Bin Laden was aimed to deprive the US from any achievement in the WOT? I do not know, but I believe this is the Army's way of thinking.

Of course, the obvious reason for protecting Bin Laden is the ISI's close contacts with terror organisations like LET, JEM and the Haqqani network. The ISI probably did not want to harm its relations with them by surrendering Bin Laden to the Americans. It protected him and helped to hide him, so he would not be found in Pakistan and embarrassed the country.

The same practice of the ISI was implemented towards Mula Omar, the Taliban leader - it was revealed in Wikileaks that the ISI knew were he is located, but they refused to discuss it with the Americans.

Make scene and make you think too but if Osama was a big card for give and take probably he was given in the way US wanted (hunt him down) and now GOP is more stable with new coalition , US is thinking of cut down in July and India is talking trade with Pakistan.
 
*sigh* common sense and factual evidence is never enough for many of our members here........bias, pessimism or just sheer lack common sense are apparently some very powerful forces.
 
Make scene and make you think too but if Osama was a big card for give and take probably he was given in the way US wanted (hunt him down) and now GOP is more stable with new coalition , US is thinking of cut down in July and India is talking trade with Pakistan.

That could make sense if Washington played along. However, the administration did not keep silence about Pakistan's role (like Obama's polite reference to Pakistan in his announcement on the killing of Bin Laden): through its spokespersons it specifically blames Pakistan for its failure to capture Bin Laden, specifically declared that Pakistan had nothing to do with the operation, and through the US media blamed Pakistan in assisting global terrorism.

If there was any kind of understanding between the US and Pakistan about eliminating its contribution to the operation, the US would behave differently.

Furthermore, the regime in Islamabad is less stable than before the operation on Monday: its main pillar, the Army (and not the weak civilian government), was damaged publicly. For the first time since the 1971 War the Army needs to handle wide range of criticism and questions about its ability to protect the country.
 
I seriously think that army had no clue of the operation and by the time they realized it was too late.

Lies upon lies. They are just trying to hide their incompetency.

No, that is not possible. There is no way the American could have infiltrated so deep into Pakistan and successfully exfiltrated without the Pak Army permitting it. It will be naive to think so. When I heard this the first time much before Obama's address, my first reaction was that the Pakistanis had to know about it. Of course they knew that the Americans were going in. They knew the general area of the operations. They might not have known that the target was OBL. But that is OK, information on these operations is given strictly on a need to know basis. Yes, they knew it. The problem is that they can't own up. Owning up would mean that the anger of the highly Islamised right wing would fall on the Army and the administration making the leaders likely targets of jihadi attacks. Also, an acceptance of Pakistan's role would cause it to fall in the eyes of the virulently anti-american Arab/Muslim world. All this nonsense of stealth Black Hawks is just red herring thrown up for obvious reasons.

Claiming incompetence/intelligence failure and blaming the Americans is far easier. The fact is that there has been no breach of sovereignty. All that is for public consumption.
 
It is very difficult to determine how much the Pakistani defence establishment knew both about the US special operation or about the location of Bin Laden.

However, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the PA and ISI did not know what is happening - otherwise, why did they let the Americans to do it and not capturing Bin Laden themselves?
do you know that electrical power of area was cutt from feeder?
Because we want that 4 parties will benefit.
USA,Afghanistan/muslims,Us,Chinese.
If the Army was concerned about the public reaction, why it did not stop it from capturing other senior Al Qaeda members and even turned them over to the US?

Other option - the security forces could capture Bin Laden and then claim that he was captured in the tribal area - why to let the Americans to conduct this operation that was bound to poorly reflect on the PA when it is already struggling on the principle of sovereignty? The American operation presented the Army in its incompetence: it cannot capture Bin Laden and it even cannot defend the country from external penetration.
why?the blood of tribe ls are so cheap?drones
humiliation,sovereignty:sacrificing something for bigger gain is ok.
example rd case.

Furthermore, the circumstantial evidence suggest that the Army/ISI knew where Bin Laden is hiding. It just does not make any sense that he was there for years (!) just under their noses and they did not know. In some reports in the Pakistani media, the ISI admits it knew about the location of Bin Laden at least for many months before the operation - why did they do nothing?
The walls of city of abbottabad has ears.There was raid on same building before.
all things start from last year.
we are waiting for best time to make move.

My guess is (which is good as any one else) is that the ISI protected Bin Laden in order to use him in the future for a huge reward from the US - perhaps a nuclear deal? some advanced weaponry? Maybe holding Bin Laden was aimed to deprive the US from any achievement in the WOT? I do not know, but I believe this is the Army's way of thinking.
That time gone when dead become alive again.

Of course, the obvious reason for protecting Bin Laden is the ISI's close contacts with terror organisations like LET, JEM and the Haqqani network. The ISI probably did not want to harm its relations with them by surrendering Bin Laden to the Americans. It protected him and helped to hide him, so he would not be found in Pakistan and embarrassed the country.
no country on earth did more damage to al-qaida than us.
haqani is Afghanistan specific.
let and jem are india specific.
world should not poke their nose in our internal matters.

The same practice of the ISI was implemented towards Mula Omar, the Taliban leader - it was revealed in Wikileaks that the ISI knew were he is located, but they refused to discuss it with the Americans.
who knows may be he was also living with obl.and died in same raid.but cia spare him for next time.
 
Pakistan army knew about operation against Osama bin Laden

Fearing a public backlash for supporting US, Pakistan has downplayed its role.

May 5, 2011 14:08

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani officials have told GlobalPost that the Pakistani army had full knowledge of the U.S. raid that led to the death of Osama bin Laden and that it played a larger role in the operation than previously acknowledged.

The statements run counter to the public position taken by officials in both Pakistan and the United States who have so far downplayed the role Pakistan’s military and intelligence community had in the attack, saying that it was limited to a small amount of information sharing.

One senior military official, who asked not to be named because he is not permitted to speak to the press, said that Pakistani army troops were in fact providing backup support when the United States began its operations inside the compound where bin Laden had been staying, including sealing off the neighborhood where the compound was located.

Officials interviewed scoffed at the idea that Pakistan could have been unaware of the American operation.

“It’s a no-fly zone,” said a Pakistani intelligence official, referring to the area around bin Laden’s mansion and the nearby military compound. “It is impossible for U.S. helicopters to fly over there without our knowledge and permission.”

A Pakistan Air Force official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, rejected reports that U.S. special forces had jammed Pakistan’s radar system in order to circumvent the no-fly zone.

“This is totally untrue. Neither our radars were jammed nor was any scrambling of any air force plane recorded,” the official said, referring to the practice of launching aircraft in the event that the airspace has been breached. Some observers said the helicopters may have been equipped with stealth technology, but that has not been confirmed.

Residents in the area confirmed that the Pakistan army appeared to have at least some knowledge of the operation well before it began. Several residents said that two hours before the United States launched its attack, Pakistani army personnel ordered them to switch off their lights inside and outside their homes and remain indoors until further notice.

“The army personnel cordoned off the entire area long before we heard the sounds of helicopters hovering over the area,” said Zulfikar Ahmed, who lives in the Abbottabad neighborhood of Bilal Town, where bin Laden’s compound is located. Locals interviewed by the BBC and several other local and international media outlets made similar statements.

Several meetings leading up to the attack, when viewed in sum, also indicate that Pakistan might have known of the operation beforehand.

“Gen. David Petraeus paid an extraordinary visit to Islamabad on April 25,” said a senior military official said. The official said Petraeus held a one-on-one meeting with Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s army chief of staff, in which they discussed the details of the operation.

The next day, Pakistan’s top military body — the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee — held its quarterly session, which was attended by Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the country's intelligence chief, who is not a regular member of the body. Pasha had visited the United States to meet with the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon Panetta, on April 11.

Analysts in Pakistan said that the Pakistani government likely wanted to hide its role in the operation to avoid a backlash from the public, which has grown increasingly impatient with the United States and the growing presence of the Central Intelligence Agency inside their country.

But now international pressure is growing on the military to answer not only for its lack of support in the raid but also for not knowing about bin Laden’s hideout, which was located close to the Pakistan Military Academy. Some in the military — which has long been one of the more respected institutions in the country — are looking to correct the record.

U.S. President Barack Obama has sought to diffuse the tension since the raid took place, calling Pakistan an important ally and highlighting the intelligence sharing between the two countries that helped lead the United States to bin Laden’s compound.

In his speech on Sunday announcing bin Laden’s death, Obama recognized Pakistan’s cooperation.

"It’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding," the president said.

When contacted by GlobalPost about this latest information, the White House press office said all details about the operation have already been released.

White House spokesman Jay Carney on Wednesday said the United States’ relationship with Pakistan was “complicated,” but that it was important to maintain.

“The fight is not done, and we look forward to cooperating with Pakistan in the future,” he said at a White House press briefing. “As others have said, more terrorists have been killed on Pakistani soil than probably any other country. And the cooperation we’ve received from Pakistan has been very useful in that regard.”

The European Union on Thursday also came to the defense of Pakistan, calling the country an “important partner,” echoing similar statements from officials at NATO that were made on Wednesday.

Experts and analysts here in Islamabad said that the Pakistani government itself, which is concerned about appearing overly friendly with the United States and angering its citizens, is likely encouraging the United States to downplay Pakistan’s involvement in finding bin Laden and the eventual operation against him.

In fact, analysts said, the Pakistani government has long been trying to compose a storyline that it is actively working against the United States — an effort that is aimed at keeping the country’s population from rising up against the political leadership. Pakistanis have grown tired of U.S. involvement in its affairs in the last decade and ongoing drone attacks in its northern tribal belt that have killed numerous civilians.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Salman Bashir, for example, told reporters Thursday that the Pakistani military first learned about the operation when a U.S. helicopter crashed at the start of the attack.

“Pakistan’s civilian and military leadership does not want to be the center of hatred, not only within Pakistan … but also in the Arab world,” where it believes elements of the population still support bin Laden, said Najam Sethi, a political analyst in Pakistan.

But many here said this strategy could, in the end, hurt the country by making it appear more culpable than it actually is — a reality that is already beginning to take shape as the American media, and some members of Congress, asks why Pakistan hasn’t been more helpful.

In the wake of all of the criticism, some here are now calling on Pakistan’s leaders to be more forthcoming about their cooperation with the United States, especially in regard to Sunday’s raid.

“If Pakistan or U.S. officials do not publicize the cooperation between the two sides in the operation against bin Laden, Pakistan will be in serious trouble on the diplomatic front,” Sethi said.

Salim Safi, a security analyst based in Peshawar, said it seemed clear that there had been a significant amount of cooperation between the two sides — a reality that should be made public, even if Pakistani officials think it might hurt them politically in the short-term.

“The Pakistani government and the military establishment must not hide the facts from their own people,” he said. “They must come forward with the truth.”

News | Pakistan | Osama bin Laden Dead

it was pretty obvious they knew about the raid.

Everyone was saying on forums that it was impossible to not know about it.

Even Mr Sohail on twitter knew about it and he had no radar.
 
do you know that electrical power of area was cutt from feeder?
Because we want that 4 parties will benefit.
USA,Afghanistan/muslims,Us,Chinese.

I read this reports, and I tend to discredit them - there were all kinds of misinformation of the ISI which is well known of its using of the Pakistani media.

[/QUOTE]why?the blood of tribe ls are so cheap?drones
humiliation,sovereignty:sacrificing something for bigger gain is ok.
example rd case.[/QUOTE]

I meant that finding BL in that area would be more reasonable and would not immediately raise criticism against the Army: everybody thought BL is hiding in a cave in that region,

[/QUOTE]The walls of city of abbottabad has ears.There was raid on same building before.
all things start from last year.
we are waiting for best time to make move.


That time gone when dead become alive again.


[/QUOTE] no country on earth did more damage to al-qaida than us.
haqani is Afghanistan specific.
let and jem are india specific.
world should not poke their nose in our internal matters.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that Pakistan's internal matters are global problem because of its being a base for terrorism in Afghanistan, India, Europe and the US.

[/QUOTE] who knows may be he was also living with obl.and died in same raid.but cia spare him for next time.[/QUOTE]

The ISI knows were Omar is since 2007! It has nothing to do with the current operation.
 
No, that is not possible. There is no way the American could have infiltrated so deep into Pakistan and successfully exfiltrated without the Pak Army permitting it. It will be naive to think so. When I heard this the first time much before Obama's address, my first reaction was that the Pakistanis had to know about it. Of course they knew that the Americans were going in. They knew the general area of the operations. They might not have known that the target was OBL. But that is OK, information on these operations is given strictly on a need to know basis. Yes, they knew it. The problem is that they can't own up. Owning up would mean that the anger of the highly Islamised right wing would fall on the Army and the administration making the leaders likely targets of jihadi attacks. Also, an acceptance of Pakistan's role would cause it to fall in the eyes of the virulently anti-american Arab/Muslim world. All this nonsense of stealth Black Hawks is just red herring thrown up for obvious reasons.

Claiming incompetence/intelligence failure and blaming the Americans is far easier. The fact is that there has been no breach of sovereignty. All that is for public consumption.

You know I sincerely thank you for this post.:tup: I am baffled at the gullibility of our people here and the outright disregard of common sense..........I used to think that only the american public ate up everything that was thrown at them.
 
it was pretty obvious they knew about the raid.

Everyone was saying on forums that it was impossible to not know about it.

Even Mr Sohail on twitter knew about it and he had no radar.

Maybe they were informed when it was already took place. however, Pakistan was most probably did not know anything on the initiative.

Judging from past experiences, if the US had cooperated with Pakistan's security forces, Bin Laden would escape thanks to his friend in the ISI and in the other terror organisations.
 
Glad to know that nation concerns were given "so importance" but by denying any role or accepting incompetence, don't they think that they have enraged the nation even more? Plan backfired i guess.


The nation did show outrage on Pakistan army's incompetence but don't you see that if we would have openly declared that we helped U.S to carry out that operation; the Al-Qaeda who had no enemity with Pakistan will start attacks on our soil too. .
 
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