Pakistan Army commits treason in Presidents Office

[ziaulislam]

Agreed. Which is why the constitution spells out a process for approval of a bill without Presidential consent, otherwise it would have stated that a bill is ‘deemed to become law’ without Presidential consent the first time around.

In this particular case, the joint session majority did not pass the bill and re-send it to the President and therefore the conditions necessary for bypassing Presidential consent have not been met.

Atleast now anyone can pass a bill without president by just delaying it or saying they didn't get it.

If the supreme court allows it. It will even end the ceremonial role of president

As in the future any bill can be passed without president by stating 10days have been passed and we couldn't find it
Lol

This will also end the role of senate (combine session)

 

[Meengla]

@indushek I think you were probably correct: President Alvi sat on the Bills--allowing them to lapse, which makes them legal. Plausible deniability.
Anyway, I didn't agree with those bills: Legal over-reach and not necessary. Those who wield the guns have the power, especially in Pakistan. They will take care of the matters one way or another!
Tempest in a teapot! But some are grasping at the straws. Won't matter.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

@indushek I think you were probably correct: President Alvi sat on the Bills--allowing them to lapse, which makes them legal. Plausible deniability.
Anyway, I didn't agree with those bills: Legal over-reach and not necessary. Those who wield the guns have the power, especially in Pakistan. They will take care of the matters one way or another!
Tempest in a teapot! But some are grasping at the straws. Won't matter.

I might be wrong but I believe ascent is not automatic after the first lapse. After the first lapse the Parliament has the right to edit or resend. If it lapses the second time do they automatically ascend. Someone did not read the law. These laws if challenged in court will have a hard time standing. But then again this is Pakistan where everything goes.

 

[Meengla]

I might be wrong but I believe ascent is not automatic after the first lapse. After the first lapse the Parliament has the right to edit or resend. If it lapses the second time do they automatically ascend. Someone did not read the law. These laws if challenged in court will have a hard time standing. But then again this is Pakistan where everything goes.

The damn two laws should be thrown out!
You are not wrong about the 'second time' ascend but only if the first time is actually sent back and not lapsed.
Well, I do think there is a loophole in the Const. of Pakistan about that issue so I could be wrong. And fortune still is not totally against Imran with No Parliament in place and the President and the CJ on Imran's side.
Still it won't matter. Guns rule!

 

[Zhukov]

This Clusterfu** they call a country. It has just become a big Gulag. Working class is squeezed to bones to get out everything out of them, so that those running the GOVERNMENT can meet their EXPENSES.

And nobody is allowed to stand against them or this system.

I wonder when will be the "first shot fired". And i might be nearer then we think.

 

[mangochutney]

 

[General Dong]

I find this saga fishy... drama created at the top to challenge controversial bills [after] they came into effect. A drama in which villian and hero are both as per the script.

This is always the case in Pakistan. The damage is already done, what's happening now is just drama that will not change anything. Nothing will happen and no one will be punished. It will be all forgotten when the next drama develops. Thankyou GHQ

 

[ziaulislam]

@indushek I think you were probably correct: President Alvi sat on the Bills--allowing them to lapse, which makes them legal. Plausible deniability.
Anyway, I didn't agree with those bills: Legal over-reach and not necessary. Those who wield the guns have the power, especially in Pakistan. They will take care of the matters one way or another!
Tempest in a teapot! But some are grasping at the straws. Won't matter.

I understand bias but you won't even find a single legal expert stating that because constitution clause 75 is clear as a day
Each clause is always used as second to first line in any law language

You can't skip 75 1-2 and skip to 3

That's ludicrous and if we start doing that we can do so many things differently

E.g we can have bill passes by president
As consitution states a bill should be passed by assembly and Senate and signed by president

But we can skip part 1-2 of clause 39 and simply sign a bill by president and viola passed


The ones crying the most will be PPPP Once maryum nawaz starts bulldozing bills without a president

This will be end of federation/senate as I would expect the three minority provinces to basically rebel(well figuratively)

Well at least You won't be hearing minority provinces people blabbing "consitution constitution" any more .. because it would be unacceptable

This is like looking at manual stating step 3 tie the knots of power line (and you skipped line 1-2 where it states cut the power)

Going by this logic we can play around so much with anything in life

It's what we call defying common language (understood language of consitution or English language)

The damn two laws should be thrown out!
You are not wrong about the 'second time' ascend but only if the first time is actually sent back and not lapsed.
Well, I do think there is a loophole in the Const. of Pakistan about that issue so I could be wrong. And fortune still is not totally against Imran with No Parliament in place and the President and the CJ on Imran's side.
Still it won't matter. Guns rule!

There isnt a loop hole . It's clear as day

Just like how it's clear as day to conduct elections in 90 days if assembly is dissolved

That is gone now so next time we can dissolve Sindh assembly via governor raj or some other means and rule over it for 4 years via federation rule

Sindhis shouldn't cry they did it themselves

 

[indushek]

Bas is dunya main har aik cheez hamari azeem fauj kay khilaf aik yahoodi sazish hai.

Bomb blast? Sazish
Corruption case? Sazish
Human rights issue? Sazish
Misue of authority? Sazish
Imran Khan ki pedayesh? You guessed it...saazish



Read the 4th paragraph of the article you posted.

And also have a look at Salman Akram Raja's twitter, he might have mentioned this there too, but I recall him mentioning this in an interview.

He is an unbiased, independent lawyer.



No, no no no no.

There is no legislature in the country right now, so how can you pass a bill? How can the caretaker pass a bill when there is no assembly to begin with?

The bill in question was moved from the NA before it got dissolved, a couple of days before the dissolution.

Again, the caretaker govt can pass NO bills, AT ALL.

But this isn't the issue here.



This is such an open and shut case, but again, the constitution does not exist in Pakistan anymore, it's all what our Highness Asim Munir the exhalted wants.



He is the ONLY one who can do this.

Right I was under the impression that, these two bills were passed by caretaker govt till now. I just googled and came up with this

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431688/govt-defends-enactment-of-two-key-bills

The Pakistan Army (Amendment) Bill, 2023, was passed by the Senate on July 27 and the National Assembly on July 31. The bill was sent to the president for his assent on Aug 2.

The Official Secrets (Amendment) Bill, 2023, was approved on Aug 7 and sent to the president on Aug 8. A notification on Saturday said that both the bills had been enacted as acts.

So the bills were passed and sent for approval, before the NA was dissolved.

The below article says, the NA in Pakistan was dissolved on 10/8. So technically the Govt did nothing wrong, if we keep aside the intent of these bills

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/...ugust-8-election-dates-soon-article-102515497

If this is the case, clearly Alvi saab is playing the innocent after sitting on the bills. There is no third option, either approve or return the bills with objections.

 

[indushek]

I might be wrong but I believe ascent is not automatic after the first lapse. After the first lapse the Parliament has the right to edit or resend. If it lapses the second time do they automatically ascend. Someone did not read the law. These laws if challenged in court will have a hard time standing. But then again this is Pakistan where everything goes.

True and I tried to google if there is some kind of Constitutional provision, of what happens when the bill is not rejected within 10 days. There is no clarity, which is why I feel Alvi saab has to approach courts.

As President he will have the note of objections, he would have put forward for the return of bills. It will prove his innocence, and the law can take care of rest. This is a clear constitutional crisis at the highest office of the land, and cannot be ignored after a tweet and some hai tuaba.

However like I wrote before also, something tells me he won't do anything else. The second part of his tweet is critical for a little pyscho analysis. He has asked for forgiveness of Almighty along with forgiveness from those who will be affected by these laws, which means he has given up. Maybe am wrong but it just shows complicity along with fear of sin, in that man.

PS Given the atmosphere in Pakistan right now and his age, I am not going to hold him in the wrong. He played safe, and this is just my personal opinion.