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Pakistan army bombarding TTP positions with 105mm artillery fire || Operation Khyber IV

What kind of dumb stupid jahil donkey argument is this???????


TTP is a mixture of religious jahilat and pashtun nationalists

They exist because something seriously has gone wrong amongst pashtuns


If you don't accept it and sort out the problem amongst your people you will burn them all up
Military Inc only eliminate to an extent so that these terrorists could be resurrected at another appropriate time and befool ppl.
Same way they are resurrecting mqm in karachi.

First eliminate military Inc.
 
They seem 122mm.
No. 122 mm Type 86 base on D-30, there is a muzzle brake on it.

This is M114 155 mm howitzer
1024px-USArmy_M114_howitzer.jpg
 
This statement shows that COIN war is not understood by the average Pakistani.

The war started more than a decade ago, and the end is not in sight but the narrow mindedness doesn’t allow to look at the bigger happening. The timeline of this thread holds no importance whatsoever on this war.

InshAllah this war will end one day and Pakistan will come victorious on top.
Afghans has anti-Pak policy since the era of Dawood. This policy remains intact, even Islamic/religious/jehadi or any other form of govt comes into power. They will never make peace with Pakistan. In every foreign forum, Afghan claims a massive part of Pakistan as Afghan territory. They will never never never make peace with Pakistan. Only deal with lead. There is no solution, our govt and military tried all solutions...and it's back to square ONE.

No. 122 mm Type 86 base on D-30, there is a muzzle brake on it.

This is M114 155 mm howitzer
1024px-USArmy_M114_howitzer.jpg
Only good for stationary targets or enemy territories. Useless for mobile enemies in small groups, who adopt guerrilla war tactics. TTP is well trained and has now better NATO equipment, compared to our border security forces, which have only a helmet, Klashankov, and may be a bulletproof vest..
 
I repeat TALIBAN are pashtuns
TTP are pashtuns
Most of the groups attacking us for decades has been pashtuns

The problem isn't religious

The problem is ethnocentric jahilat of pashtuns
Their inability to live in peace with anyone either in Afghanistan or Pakistan
Their inability to respect treaties, boundaries, borders or laws
Their poor grasp of history

The CONSTANT playing the VICTIM

Pretending that the generals have made pashtuns this way us a joke when they have created fassad for DECADES

View attachment 908174View attachment 908175View attachment 908176View attachment 908177

drug smuggling, kidnappings ransom terrorism cave mentality society
 
go on you indulge me. just for the heck of it
do a complete wargame
after all DHA Generals are busy recording another sexy audio of Riayast Medina's deposed Amir.
Youre trying to say a poster on PDF and GHQ are equal because none of them cant draw up a good battle plan against barbarians?
 
Problem is army leadership are living in a bubble incapable of adapting to new threat parameters and utilize modern technology. Still stuck in old era of foot patrols and artillery guns instead of using drones and surveillance assets and rapid reaction techniques..

It all comes down to education and encouragement of innovation, which alas senior leadership do not want to do as they want juniors and soldiers to be yes sir robots…
Army has failed to evolve, intelligence assets are misused for political purposes hence the casualties that are being afflicted on the poor troops..
This is very fair criticism.

Likely linked to the fancy red carpet walks they have while visitng poor villagers which there was a thread about a few weeks ago. Making themselves look like third world clowns.

It's the egotistical and ignorant mindset of not wanting to adapt & evolve, or acknowledge constructive criticism.
 
Afghans has anti-Pak policy since the era of Dawood. This policy remains intact, even Islamic/religious/jehadi or any other form of govt comes into power. They will never make peace with Pakistan. In every foreign forum, Afghan claims a massive part of Pakistan as Afghan territory. They will never never never make peace with Pakistan. Only deal with lead. There is no solution, our govt and military tried all solutions...and it's back to square ONE.
When the public of Pakistan accepted the Afghans, Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, etc and allowed them to settle in FATA and got their women married with them, then why blame Afghans. In meantime, weapons flowed freely into FATA thus into Pakistan since 1980s. How can TTP build factories and weapon depots inside Pakistan otherwise.

And its not only FATA, same amount of ammunition, weapons, resources, transport, etc is available for TTP and BLA inside Baluchistan which is another bomb waiting to explode when time comes, much bloodier than FATA. In KPK, GOP messed up with FATA since 1947, not bringing it under Govt writ, but with Baluchistan even after 1970s insurgency GOP didn't give attention to the province.

Look at all the insurgencies in KPK and Baluchistan since 1947 - Army was called, it cleared up the area but what happened then ? Pick up any year in 1950s, or 1970s or after that in 2000s. The issue remained in between after Army completed its job and the time for handover arrived.

I can write on movement of RAW into Pakistan from border of Sindh to Baluchistan, from Iran to Baluchistan and from Afghanistan to both Baluchistan and KPK, but again bear in mind that it didnt just occur in early 2000s or in 2010s or 2020s, it started much before that, it got quelled down in between but gained momentum again.

How did the movement occur when Pakistan Army is looking after borders ?
Pakistan Army is not looking after borders. Rangers look after Punjab and Sindh borders while FC looks after Baluchistan and KPK borders with established posts. After that the pickets and check posts are manned by Police, not Army.

Were Intelligence agencies sleeping ?
No, in many instances the infiltration and exfiltration was monitored both by ISI and RAW, while some methods were used by both agencies which were caught by either one. Smuggling was rampant through Sindh and Baluchistan borders for all three countries (India/Pakistan/Iran). The agents were caught eventually but at times the damage had already been done. Further damage was avoided after that. It was easier to catch Pakistanis working for Indian agencies inside cantonments because MI and FIU were fully active there. FIA, IB and ISI were covering other cities and regions.

There were many instances where Army jawans, Rangers, FC and BSF of both Indian and Pakistani Armies were caught providing intelligence to other country and sometimes working as double agents. Army officers (Pakistani/Indian) deputed in regions close to borders were caught working against national interests. However, this doesn't leave out members of public (traders and businessmen) and Government (customs and police) facilitating the whole process when Intel agencies sweeped through the whole ring. The smugglers/dacoits in Sindh had the same training level of an Indian Army soldier or agent, which is now seen in TTP terrorists. Sindh police was normally no match against these smugglers or dacoits for this reason, well one of the reasons eventually. And since we are talking about Sindh, do you know why was Panoaqil cantonment built outside Sukkur as a completely different setup when it was much cheaper to built inside or attached with Sukkur like Hyderabad or Karachi ? The Sindh separatists Sindhu-desh and related movements, the rural public emotions siding with daciots/smugglers whom they thought dont get jobs so have to resort to such professions, political ambitions of PPP related leaders and the Army Vs wadera hold that the boys of villages will join Army rather than stay as slaves. Eventually Army said its a strategic point to house an infantry division, where as Hyderabad Cantt cannot hold two or more divisions.

The people of interest for both ISI and RAW were pakistanis/indians having relatives on both sides of the border, the urdu speaking community and the muhajirs. For sake of visa, visa extensions, money, privilege's and blackmailing, citizens of both countries were forced into spying at certain occasions. Its is commonly thought that MQM was built up from ground to stand against PPP, that is not the only reason. MQM worked both for ISI and RAW against India and Pakistan at times due to its members travelling frequently in both countries.
 
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I am not Trying.
I am just interested what He or you got in mind.
Classic strawman eh. Asking for conclusive action from the army is our right. Were but humble plebes who cant even jump slow traffic. Plus if we civilians have to draw up battle plans, maybe GHQ should mass resign and go plant tomatoes or chauffer cars or PAF aircraft.

Oh wait they already doing that hehe.
 
Yes Boss, makes sense.


Do you have a practical plan to turn that around, like a step by step plan casting strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and outcomes of respective factors in a thoroughly conducted write up, keeping current affairs and also the impact on internal parties and foreign policy as well as input of all government departments (Federal and provincial) starting from time line of creation of TTP and its war timeline with Pakistan Army till now.
Nahin… like Mon o Salwa it must be “كُنْ فَيَكُونُ”
 
When the public of Pakistan accepted the Afghans, Uzbeks, Chechens, Tajiks, etc and allowed them to settle in FATA and got their women married with them, then why blame Afghans. In meantime, weapons flowed freely into FATA thus into Pakistan since 1980s. How can TTP build factories and weapon depots inside Pakistan otherwise.

And its not only FATA, same amount of ammunition, weapons, resources, transport, etc is available for TTP and BLA inside Baluchistan which is another bomb waiting to explode when time comes, much bloodier than FATA. In KPK, GOP messed up with FATA since 1947, not bringing it under Govt writ, but with Baluchistan even after 1970s insurgency GOP didn't give attention to the province.

Look at all the insurgencies in KPK and Baluchistan since 1947 - Army was called, it cleared up the area but what happened then ? Pick up any year in 1950s, or 1970s or after that in 2000s. The issue remained in between after Army completed its job and the time for handover arrived.

I can write on movement of RAW into Pakistan from border of Sindh to Baluchistan, from Iran to Baluchistan and from Afghanistan to both Baluchistan and KPK, but again bear in mind that it didnt just occur in early 2000s or in 2010s or 2020s, it started much before that, it got quelled down in between but gained momentum again.

How did the movement occur when Pakistan Army is looking after borders ?
Pakistan Army is not looking after borders. Rangers look after Punjab and Sindh borders while FC looks after Baluchistan and KPK borders with established posts. After that the pickets and check posts are manned by Police, not Army.

Were Intelligence agencies sleeping ?
No, in many instances the infiltration and exfiltration was monitored both by ISI and RAW, while some methods were used by both agencies which were caught by either one. Smuggling was rampant through Sindh and Baluchistan borders for all three countries (India/Pakistan/Iran). The agents were caught eventually but at times the damage had already been done. Further damage was avoided after that. It was easier to catch Pakistanis working for Indian agencies inside cantonments because MI and FIU were fully active there. FIA, IB and ISI were covering other cities and regions.

There were many instances where Army jawans, Rangers, FC and BSF of both Indian and Pakistani Armies were caught providing intelligence to other country and sometimes working as double agents. Army officers (Pakistani/Indian) deputed in regions close to borders were caught working against national interests. However, this doesn't leave out members of public (traders and businessmen) and Government (customs and police) facilitating the whole process when Intel agencies sweeped through the whole ring. The smugglers/dacoits in Sindh had the same training level of an Indian Army soldier or agent, which is now seen in TTP terrorists. Sindh police was normally no match against these smugglers or dacoits for this reason, well one of the reasons eventually. And since we are talking about Sindh, do you know why was Panoaqil cantonment built outside Sukkur as a completely different setup when it was much cheaper to built inside or attached with Sukkur like Hyderabad or Karachi ? The Sindh separatists Sindhu-desh and related movements, the rural public emotions siding with daciots/smugglers whom they thought dont get jobs so have to resort to such professions, political ambitions of PPP related leaders and the Army Vs wadera hold that the boys of villages will join Army rather than stay as slaves. Eventually Army said its a strategic point to house an infantry division, where as Hyderabad Cantt cannot hold two or more divisions.

The people of interest for both ISI and RAW were pakistanis/indians having relatives on both sides of the border, the urdu speaking community and the muhajirs. For sake of visa, visa extensions, money, privilege's and blackmailing, citizens of both countries were forced into spying at certain occasions. Its is commonly thought that MQM was built up from ground to stand against PPP, that is not the only reason. MQM worked both for ISI and RAW against India and Pakistan at times due to its members travelling frequently in both countries.
So Pakistan's ability to push a public narrative is weak, and the rangers, FC, and police's capabilities are not efficient enough
 
and the rangers, FC, and police's capabilities are not efficient enough
Have been weak over the years, until they were ramped up since mid 2000s till now. But I think its a bit late. There will be incidents, deaths, sacrifices, loss of lives, destruction to infrastructure etc. Its not a war which will end easily and soon. India has helped every anti-Pakistan faction to make strongholds inside Pakistan with the help of a public who is religiously confused.
 
So Pakistan's ability to push a public narrative is weak, and the rangers, FC, and police's capabilities are not efficient enough
Funds needed and lots of fund needed. US is planning to help PA.
Otherwise, our paramilitary can't fight with these trained terrorists..

644608-Roadsidebomb-1386859473.jpg
 
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