Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[Windjammer]

This is not because they like or want the A-10, it’s because the F35 project is delayed and a feasibility study conducted showed that replacing them with more MR fighters or a new CAS would cost the USAF too much, and that a new CAS fighter would be too expensive for the little capability it brings. Back when the F35 project was on track, They were meant to be retired prematurely by 2022. So even these upgrades are not because of the platform being good. USAF never wanted the platform originally either.

Earlier you said....'' The F16 is truly a much better CAS platform than A10 if people manage to look past the “cool factor” of the A10 or its use after the 90s''.

Even if say F-35 was delayed, there are plenty of F-15s, F-16s and F/A18s available to USAF, which by your admittance are better in CAS than A-10......why spend $Millions if no $Billions on a so called dead Horse by your standards. Let me remind you the main theme on A-10s is that it believes in giving and taking hard knocks.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Earlier you said....'' The F16 is truly a much better CAS platform than A10 if people manage to look past the “cool factor” of the A10 or its use after the 90s''.

Even if say F-35 was delayed, there are plenty of F-15s, F-16s and F/A18s available to USAF, which by your admittance are better in CAS than A-10......why spend $Millions if no $Billions on a so called dead Horse by your standards. Let me remind you the main theme on A-10s is that it believes in giving and taking hard knocks.

Yes, what I said was true, the USAF never wanted the A10 platform, but it ended up having to get it anyways despite their wishes. As I said before the only reason it got so much use is because it’s a lot cheaper to use it than a proper fighter jet, which is true, I also said that the USAF has been using F-16s, F-15s and F-18s a lot more for CAS and stroke recently due to their better performance and capabilities which is also true.

Despite what it may look like, I.e the USAF having plenty of F-16s,15s and 18s, they will not want their aircraft numbers to go below a certain amount because they also need that many aircraft to deploy them in their bases all over the world and back at home. If USA had enough of those to dedicate them to only strike roles in their COIN ops they would have done away with their A10s a long time ago, but at the current stage the USAF is replacing its older F16s, 15s and 18s with newer ones and upgrading its A10s due to the delays in the F35 program. They need their numbers to stay at the current amount, they don’t have aircraft to spare since their numbers are going down and not up.

The only reason A10s are getting upgrades is because it’s still cheaper to upgrade them instead of replace them with any other aircraft, it’s necessity and not choice.

and lastly, let me remind you that the A10 cannot knock as hard as an F-16, F15 or F18 and it can certainly not take a harder knock because the rest of those aircraft are pretty much invulnerable to whatever can hit an A10 due to their speed and superior countermeasures. At most it’s better against cannon fire, which again, proper jets are nearly invulnerable to.

 

[HRK]

Chinese z9s

It seems PN is going with Z-9

 

[Scorpiooo]

Ask them to gift the blk 60's, once they get the F-35.

There f16 block are quite young and effective... and secondly don't think to get any more free stuff from them now

 

[Tipu7]

It seems PN is going with Z-9

Almost sure.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Considering we spent all these years fighting insurgents why didn't we ever try getting the A10 warthogs for PAA?

@Windjammer @PanzerKiel

The A-10 became one of those aircraft (along with the AC-130) the U.S. wouldn't sell to anyone, much less Pakistan.

However, during the COIN situation, some key PAF people had liked the concept of the Brazilian-Italian AMX. Unfortunately, that aircraft was out of production by the time its use case because globally relevant. If it had still been in production, the PAF may have gotten it.

 

[Sifar zero]

The A-10 became one of those aircraft (along with the AC-130) the U.S. wouldn't sell to anyone, much less Pakistan.

However, during the COIN situation, some key PAF people had liked the concept of the Brazilian-Italian AMX. Unfortunately, that aircraft was out of production by the time its use case because globally relevant. If it had still been in production, the PAF may have gotten it.

Any reason for not selling?
I remember there was a armed Mushak revealed in an IDEAS that would be great for the current scenario of COIN in Pakistan.It would be cheap and pilots would not need complex training for it.Not to forget the hundreds of Mushaks already in service which could be easily upgraded.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Any reason for not selling?
I remember there was a armed Mushak revealed in an IDEAS that would be great for the current scenario of COIN in Pakistan.It would be cheap and pilots would not need complex training for it.Not to forget the hundreds of Mushaks already in service which could be easily upgraded.

The US considers certain equipment of strategic value, and they don't want others learning how to replicate it. The AC-130, for example, has the structural integrity to support a 105 mm gun. There are likely similar reasons at play for restricting the A-10.

 

[HRK]

Almost sure.

Actually there is a photo of Z-9 with first Type-54A/P, therefore it is almost confirm though not officially

 

[iLION12345_1]

Actually there is a photo of Z-9 with first Type-54A/P, therefore it is almost confirm though not officially

I think That Z9 is just a placeholder model, not an actual aircraft (as it looks to just be the outer shell) but it may suggest we are getting more of them.

 

[Tipu7]

Actually there is a photo of Z-9 with first Type-54A/P, therefore it is almost confirm though not officially

Z-9D version may be. Alongside standard anti submarine package, It's also armed with YJ-9 AShMs and thus can conduct anti surface warfare operations.

 

[Goritoes]

Z-9D version may be. Alongside standard anti submarine package, It's also armed with YJ-9 AShMs and thus can conduct anti surface warfare operations.

How would you rate it against its competitors?

 

[Moon]

The A-10 became one of those aircraft (along with the AC-130) the U.S. wouldn't sell to anyone, much less Pakistan.

However, during the COIN situation, some key PAF people had liked the concept of the Brazilian-Italian AMX. Unfortunately, that aircraft was out of production by the time its use case because globally relevant. If it had still been in production, the PAF may have gotten it.

Why don't we just get Super Tucanos then? Or make something like that on our own? A turboprop with large fuel capacity and the ability to drop guided munitions, throw in a MAWS and you have the perfect COIN aircraft... Cheap, reliable and low operational costs, plus it would be faster than a gunship, and can land in unprepared terrain, unlike a fighter jet.

Why don't we just get Super Tucanos then? Or make something like that on our own? A turboprop with large fuel capacity and the ability to drop guided munitions, throw in a MAWS and you have the perfect COIN aircraft... Cheap, reliable and low operational costs, plus it would be faster than a gunship, and can land in unprepared terrain, unlike a fighter jet.

Basically troops could have 24/7 aerial support, always Oncall.

 

[Signalian]

Considering we spent all these years fighting insurgents why didn't we ever try getting the A10 warthogs for PAA?

@Windjammer @PanzerKiel

A-5 could have been an option.

Drones and Helos will remain the main go to's in this role but they will remain prone to attrition in a equally contested arena.

Network centric capability is essential through data link for surveillance, monitoring, tracking, targeting and eliminating targets for all aviation assets sent for a specific mission.

 

[Signalian]

IMO ... the new attack helicopter will come from the first country to post a loan for Pakistan.

If the US does it tomorrow, then expect to see AH-1Zs. If the Chinese extend their credit line (on top of the loans for VT4, 054A/P, Hangor, etc), then we'll see the Z-10ME. A big reason why the T129 was selected was because the Turks let us pay in installments.

If LINK-17 has been integrated into PAA assets, that would allow helicopters of different types (and UAVs) to operate in conjunction with each other.