Pakistan and Russia decide to take bilateral relations to new levels

[LeGenD]

Okay, so a NUCLEAR POWER country invades another NUCLEAR POWER country by crossing a border after almost FIVE decades via aircrafts and deposits some bombs and the US reaction was 'India has a right of self defense'.

It's not even debatable anymore. You some time really amaze me!

Bro,

I do not say that US is a reliable partner, but American and Pakistani interests are on converging track once again. This is apparent from following set of observations.

1) Exxon-Mobil helping Pakistan to extract oil from its mainland.

2) Trump administration's efforts in diffusing PAK-India tensions. This is openly acknowledged in media sources of both countries.

Shah Mehmood Qureshi confirmed that Mike Pompeo played his part in diffusing tensions between Pakistan and India on the night of 27th. Conversely, Donald Trump revoked special trading concessions to India soon after, and the timing of this decision irked India to great degree.

3. US and Pakistan are collectively devising an endgame for the ongoing Afghan Civil War.

I understand that some members of this forum are deeply Anti-American in their expressions, but come on. With US on its side, India would have finished Pakistan back in 2002.

And let us not forget... Western sources made it possible for Pakistan to debunk Indian state-driven propaganda in relation to Indian surgical strikes in Pakistan and vice versa.

I am simply being honest here.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We should improve relation with all countries . You just can't remain isolate & expect economy to grow.

 

[_Sherdils_]

Bro,

I do not say that US is a reliable partner, but American and Pakistani interests are on converging track once again. This is apparent from following set of observations.

1) Exxon-Mobil helping Pakistan to extract oil from its mainland.

2) Trump administration's efforts in diffusing PAK-India tensions. This is openly acknowledged in media sources of both countries.

Shah Mehmood Qureshi confirmed that Mike Pompeo played his part in diffusing tensions between Pakistan and India on the night of 27th. And Donald Trump revoked special trading concessions to India soon after, and the timing of this decision irked India to great degree.

3. US and Pakistan are collectively devising an endgame for the ongoing Afghan Civil War.

I understand that some members of this forum are deeply Anti-American in their expressions, but come on....

With US on its side, India would have finished Pakistan back in 2002.

And let us not forget... Western sources made it possible for Pakistan to debunk Indian propaganda.

I am simply being honest here.

1) We don't know if there is any oil yet.

2) india was allowed to break our nose only. Which they failed in and instead got a bloody nose. They then went on to try missile strikes. Unvle Sam told them, your getting out of your clothes, a full blown conflict was never on the cards. That's the de-escalation.

3) They are because it is in both's favour. Even when we were their ally, their treatment, I don't need to remind. They are going to use us like tissue paper for this peace deal and then get back to the old ways. Notice how Pompeo mentioned Pakistani nukes as a threat!

4) This is true, your nukes got in the way. Just like the yanks and North Korea today.

 

[Meengla]

Shah Mehmood Qureshi confirmed that Mike Pompeo played his part in diffusing tensions between Pakistan and India on the night of 27th.

Good post overall but I don't think you underestimate the depth of India-US 'strategic' alliance. You are right about the quoted part above: FINALLY Pompeo played his role but that was after Pakistan had shown that there had been grave miscalculations done by not only India but also India's backers wrt to Pakistan's capability and willing to go 'on the escalation ladder'.

I am not one of those who say dump America blah blah. Members here won't acknowledge the critical role American help played in Pakistan's economy and security, especially in the 50s/60s. And even now there are convergence of Pak-USA interests, especially right now when a face-saving exit is required. But you'd be deluded to think that containing China is NOT America's overarching goal. The contain-China discourse has been around in forums like the PDF but now it makes even to the front pages of the NY Time. Pakistan's role is peanuts for America, especially after the Afghan exit, when compared with, what is now obvious, the biggest chess game being played on the global stage!

PS. It was reported that post Mumbai 2008 attacks, America tried to defuse tensions about asking, on India's behalf, to drop some bombs in some empty area inside Pakistan. That request was categorically rejected by Pakistan and a full response was promised even then.

 

[LeGenD]

1) We don't know if there is any oil yet.

We can appreciate the effort, still. Oil drilling operations are not cheap.

2) india was allowed to break our nose only. Which they failed in and instead got a bloody nose. They then went on to try missile strikes. Unvle Sam told them, your getting out of your clothes, a full blown conflict was never on the cards. That's the de-escalation.

If you say so.

3) They are because it is in both's favour. Even when we were their ally, their treatment, I don't need to remind. They are going to use us like tissue paper for this peace deal and then get back to the old ways. Notice how Pompeo mentioned Pakistani nukes as a threat!

Relations are supposed to be mutually beneficial.

This: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...a-pakistan-might-be-real-nuclear-threat-27647

- is not from Mike Pompeo.

US does not highlight Pakistan as a nuclear threat to its interests in its strategic documents. Pakistan never gave this kind of impression to US at any point in time. Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan was crossing the line with his nuclear proliferation activities, but he was honorably relieved from his duties.

It is possible that PAK-US relations might return to the same-old same-old phase after the Afghan endgame, but we cannot say for sure. Pakistan is warming up to Russia, and have great relations with China, so US would want to keep Pakistan in its orbit for indefinite period. Interesting times ahead.

Pakistan should continue to sharpen its diplomatic skills, rebuild its economy, stay away from Cold Wars of superpowers, and maintain a strong anti-terrorism posture. All will be well, inshallah.

4) This is true, your nukes got in the way. Just like the yanks and North Korea today.

No.

Pakistani nuclear capabilities were premature back in 2002.

 

[nahtanbob]

Okay, so a NUCLEAR POWER country invades another NUCLEAR POWER country by crossing a border after almost FIVE decades via aircrafts and deposits some bombs and the US reaction was 'India has a right of self defense'.

It's not even debatable anymore. You some time really amaze me!

Russia is the one arming India from MiGs, Su-30s and S-400s
When was the last time Russian foreign minister showed up in Islamabad ?

Russia has enough friends in Iran, Central Asia. It always does not hurt to have more

 

[LeGenD]

Good post overall but I don't think you underestimate the depth of India-US 'strategic' alliance. You are right about the quoted part above: FINALLY Pompeo played his role but that was after Pakistan had shown that there had been grave miscalculations done by not only India but also India's backers wrt to Pakistan's capability and willing to go 'on the escalation ladder'.

I am not one of those who say dump America blah blah. Members here won't acknowledge the critical role American help played in Pakistan's economy and security, especially in the 50s/60s. And even now there are convergence of Pak-USA interests, especially right now when a face-saving exit is required. But you'd be deluded to think that containing China is NOT America's overarching goal. The contain-China discourse has been around in forums like the PDF but now it makes even to the front pages of the NY Time. Pakistan's role is peanuts for America, especially after the Afghan exit, when compared with, what is now obvious, the biggest chess game being played on the global stage!

PS. It was reported that post Mumbai 2008 attacks, America tried to defuse tensions about asking, on India's behalf, to drop some bombs in some empty area inside Pakistan. That request was categorically rejected by Pakistan and a full response was promised even then.

I just want to point out that Indo-US relations have its share of problems as well.

Indians assume that they can charm the Americans and extract all kinds of favors from them, but the latter are not stupid.

FYI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-india-delhi-plays-down-impact-idUSKCN1QM007

India needs to prove its worth in the 'quadilateral security dialogue' paradigm first. However, India is not thrilled with the prospects of containing China yet.

FYI: https://www.eurasiareview.com/20032019-the-quad-whistling-by-its-grave-analysis/

Indians seemingly FEAR repeat of 1962 episode or worse.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Good move, because as USA decides to make 6 nuclear power plants in India, we need to work for our interests first,

Improving relations with Russia will balance things out.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Sound diplomacy IMHO. Russia is a powerful country and Pakistan should have constructive relations with it. In this way, Russia will be more reciprocative to Pakistani geopolitics then before.


Come on now, this myth needs to die.

USSR simply failed to work on long-term basis. US planted the seeds of 'democratic reforms' in USSR, and watched the show afterwards. Boris Yeltsin...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/24/world/europe/24yeltsin.html

[2] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/us-agents-helped-yeltsin-break-coup-1436470.html?amp

u keep believing on that

 

[CrazyZ]

Since the time of tsar's Russia has wanted a year round warm water port....One of the main objectives of the British during the great game period was to deny Russia access to the ocean, hence the push into Afghanistan....One the main reasons for the USA cold war alliance with Pakistan once to contain the USSR. A centuries old denial that has now ended. Forget Crimea or Tartarus the Russian fleet may be based in Karachi or Gwadar....Stunning...The Russians didn't even have to spend any blood or money, just sit back and watch the USA turn its back on Pakistan and Pakistan reciprocated....Just stunning.

 

[nahtanbob]

Since the time of tsar's Russia has wanted a year round warm water port....One of the main objectives of the British during the great game period was to deny Russia access to the ocean, hence the push into Afghanistan....One the main reasons for the USA cold war alliance with Pakistan once to contain the USSR. A centuries old denial that has now ended. Forget Crimea or Tartarus the Russian fleet may be based in Karachi or Gwadar....Stunning...The Russians didn't even have to spend any blood or money, just sit back and watch the USA turn its back on Pakistan and Pakistan reciprocated....Just stunning.

you could have bent over in 1979 and given the Ruskies a warm water port . Why the sudden change of heart ?

 

[shahbaz baig]

US does not highlight Pakistan as a nuclear threat to its interests in its strategic documents.

Disagree, it's up to you accept this truth or not, US interests are connected with Israel & vice versa.

I have read many articles from US where their defence & strategical experts, analyzers deliberately drag Pakistan into the debate of nuclear arms and always try to show Pakistan as irresponsible nuclear state.

Just read this recent article (link is below)

You can clearly observe that once again Yankee mentioned the name of Pakistan & what it's meaning.

Israel has problems with Pakistan just because of her Friend india I think. Otherwise I am unable to understand what's wrong with Israel.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/apocalypse-now-why-israel-would-start-a-nuclear-war.610543/

 

[jupiter2007]

Fcuk Amrika.. nothing but betrayal from them..
We can make russian weapons lethal again..

Have you checked our Exports to America? How much of our economy (6.5 billon trade both ways) depends on USA?

Astaghfirullah, We don’t need to Fcuk anyone. We need a balance approach and good relationship with everyone. We can’t blindly trust anyone....Russia, USA and China, all have their own interest and they are working toward it. China is a great friend but it doesn’t give anything free. We have taken too many high interest loans from China. Pakistan total debt to China is more than 90 billon dollars which Pakistan has to start paying back by 2024.

 

[Meengla]

you could have bent over in 1979 and given the Ruskies a warm water port . Why the sudden change of heart ?

This 'warm water port' theory has been floating around for a long long time, mostly in PDF Pakistanis' imagination. Maybe, just maybe, the Tsars wanted such a port once--maybe. But today's Russia is simply not capable of creating and maintaining a naval port in Pakistan and doesn't need to anyway.

As for 1979--it was a desperate reluctant invasion of Afghanistan triggered by the fear that the then ruler of Afghanistan was warming up to America. An American foothold in Afghanistan would make the USSR's underbelly of the 'Stans' vulnerable. You could say it was like the fear of the same 'domino effect' that America had in Vietnam about communism.

 

[xyxmt]

and as a favor to Russians, we wont mention the make and model of 2nd fighter downed