Pakistan Air Force's acquisitions for future

[Viper0011.]

I dont think Economy will really play a role here, the US has more debt on its head than Pakistan, yet they are continuing to purchase and research new planes.

Dude, you f'd up the argument in a way that it's non response worthy like one of PAF's Erieye that's non air worthy. The comparison between Pakistan and US's debt is pure insanity. The US has a lot of debt.....but may be a couple of the US states together (out of 50) have a larger budget than Pakistan as an entire country. The US weapons sales are in trillions. That's why the companies can continue to spend money in R&D and in new developments. How many top line jets, and other weapons come from Pakistan and sold in billions of dollars to the world everywhere?
Not trying to bash Pakistan as they have started to produce good weapons. Just highlighting the facts. It would be the same as comparing the US to even the French or Germans or to the Britts. No one does Military and Weapon systems better than the US since WWII.

 

[fatman17]

^great discussions going on......time to close this silliness

 

[illusion8]

Considering the Rafale deal is still dead in it's tracks and the FGFA could face further delays (it's already behind schedule), the IAF won't have too much of a head start.

Rafale is a certainty will start rolling in from early 2016, the PAF FA program is going great guns and the FGFA deal has been tweaked to a single seater version now and India is to receive it's first prototypes shortly - what will go into it is some of our own avionics - similar to the SU30 MKI program, tentative production has been scheduled to start by 2020. The AMCA though is not moving at all, they are still finalizing the design, which most likely will be finalized by 2014.

What is PAF's plan for this decade? - I don't see much in the pipeline - except getting a few squadrons of JF 17 blk 1's. There is no replacements of the lost awacs scheduled. Let's not even talk of a 5th Gen program for PAF now.

 

[Hyperion]

No that's not the case. Their airborne radars are doing A-OK, better than what is expected of them, maybe a few teethin problems here and there. What I was referring to into the other post was to their experience with ABM centric integrated-systems and software fusion. You can't compare that to the Israelis at the moment, on the other hand it would also be unfair. 100% OF GREEN PINE IS US TECH, so there isn't any Israeli system to begin with, and by the same logic...............

Furthermore, purely in "radar" tech, they, I think, are second best option out there... again, minus the shiny box and fancy output.

How many AEW&C platforms do you have in operation at the moment? I had heard that there were plans to acquire certain Chinese AEW&C platforms? @Hyperion had been expressing some reservations about the capabilities of Chinese radars, is he accurate?

When do you think that PAF will venture into induction 5th gen platforms, will they try to maintain parity with the IAF once the FGFAs start getting inducted at the end of this decade?

 

[Dillinger]

No that's not the case. Their airborne radars are doing A-OK, better than what is expected of them, maybe a few teethin problems here and there. What I was referring to into the other post was to their experience with ABM centric integrated-systems and software fusion. You can't compare that to the Israelis at the moment, on the other hand it would also be unfair. 100% OF GREEN PINE IS US TECH, so there isn't any Israeli system to begin with, and by the same logic...............

Furthermore, purely in "radar" tech, they, I think, are second best option out there... again, minus the shiny box and fancy output.

Oscar said that the AEW&C sensor on offer to you was not exactly top notch, in fact in certain ways deficient even to the SAAB system so that's sort of debatable. Come on man, all of us on this side can't even get an AESA radar on to a combat plane and on the other end you've got companies like Selex with Vixen leave alone Lockheed Martin or RAC Mig. As far as sensors go, the rest of the world has a lot to catch up to do to get close to the Americans or the Europeans. Agreed on the American strings in the Greenpine system, although we did tweak it, increased its range to three times the range it had in Israeli hands. All this exposure has helped us to finally officially commence on the IMEWS segment.

 

[Manindra]

Based on what sir? The PAF has already suspended its “Air Force Development Plan 2025” so no J-10s or BLK.III JF-17s are likely. And you are talking about 5th gen fighters? The PAF is going to be the first AF in the region with 5th gen fighters??!!


And what 5th gen fighters would these be?

Spare them, the nations who develops are co-develops fifth generation plane they suspicious of inducting it in timeframe of 2018 & they hope they buy it on soft loans in 2018

 

[Hyperion]

What OSCAR was referring to was what the Chinese gave us initially. I know the issue VERY well, maybe more than I should. At the moment, all the new modules of AESA and their MTBF correspond to world standards.

Trust you me, it's not only neck in neck anymore, Chinese are about to have a quantum leap over the Yanks, as far as "cooking" of reliable modules is concerned.

Oscar said that the AEW&C sensor on offer to you was not exactly top notch, in fact in certain ways deficient even to the SAAB system so that's sort of debatable. Come on man, all of us on this side can't even get an AESA radar on to a combat plane and on the other end you've got companies like Selex with Vixen leave alone Lockheed Martin or RAC Mig. As far as sensors go, the rest of the world has a lot to catch up to to get close to the Americans or the Europeans. Agreed on the American strings in the Greenpine system, although we did tweak it, increased its range to three times the range it had in Israeli hands. All this exposure has helped us to finally officially commence on the IMEWS segment.

 

[Dillinger]

What OSCAR was referring to was what the Chinese gave us initially. I know the issue VERY well, maybe more than I should. At the moment, all the new modules of AESA and their MTBF correspond to world standards.

Trust you me, it's not only neck in neck anymore, Chinese are about to have a quantum leap over the Yanks, as far as "cooking" of reliable modules is concerned.

Dude the AEW&C offer is very recent. Maybe @Oscar can shed some light on it. They are investing a lot, they should be reaching beyond certain thresholds. Woe be me but we need more money, the baniya must get back to making money if we are to prosper.

 

[Hyperion]

BTW, @Dillinger... it's not just "green pine", it's practically 100% of ALL the "core" system in 100% of your various platforms. You call it ToT, and when we do it, it's called black market. What do you think the Chinese built these as well? No. All the IP starts and ends in the US. Look at the EU, poor shits can't even manufacture 40% of the "requisite" systems that support Ariane. Where do you think they get them? US of A of course. Almost all of the high tech in this world has been Transferred as COMPLETE system from the US.

 

[Gentelman]

Based on what sir? The PAF has already suspended its “Air Force Development Plan 2025” so no J-10s or BLK.III JF-17s are likely. And you are talking about 5th gen fighters? The PAF is going to be the first AF in the region with 5th gen fighters??!!


And what 5th gen fighters would these be?

Chineese one if PAF could make up and Chineese could fullfill PAF requirements which are unlikely before 2025...........

 

[SQ8]

AND why would maximum security be accorded only to the Air University in Islamabad (E-9) and not to the bases housing perhaps the most important assets of the PAF?

E-9 has the air university and the AHQ with the Chiefs house. Our leaders usually give too much importance to themselves and consider themselves irreplaceable.

What OSCAR was referring to was what the Chinese gave us initially. I know the issue VERY well, maybe more than I should. At the moment, all the new modules of AESA and their MTBF correspond to world standards.

Trust you me, it's not only neck in neck anymore, Chinese are about to have a quantum leap over the Yanks, as far as "cooking" of reliable modules is concerned.

Ssshhh... You dont want to reveal how tough and durable their technology is.. even their Li-ion batteries.. Voltage surges?? Bah!

 

[SQ8]

BTW, @Dillinger... it's not just "green pine", it's practically 100% of ALL the "core" system in 100% of your various platforms. You call it ToT, and when we do it, it's called black market. What do you think the Chinese built these as well? No. All the IP starts and ends in the US. Look at the EU, poor shits can't even manufacture 40% of the "requisite" systems that support Ariane. Where do you think they get them? US of A of course. Almost all of the high tech in this world has been Transferred as COMPLETE system from the US.

All Hail Texas Instruments!
All Hail Xilinx!

 

[Hyperion]

Do you remember those stepwise-equation solving TI & HP calculators? I used to have a transparent blue one by HP during my engineering days..... we used to think that we were the ****....

Look at the new generation... bastards have every facility in the universe to aid in their studies.....

All Hail Texas Instruments!
All Hail Xilinx!

 

[SQ8]

Do you remember those stepwise-equation solving TI & HP calculators? I used to have a transparent blue one by HP during my engineering days..... we used to think that we were the ****....

Look at the new generation... bastards have every facility in the universe to aid in their studies.....

Seen those, but by time CASIO had bought in something similar on a cheaper product. However, when it came to graphing functions and regression.. T.I was the thing. All these technologies have key American innovations or products within them.. What the Chinese try to do is copy these products.. without the refinement in manufacturing techniques. However, the thing is.. if it costs $50 to get the real deal.. the Chinese copy will cost $1.. and out of the 50 extra they will manufacture.. at least 20 will work.

 

[Storm Force]

PAF FUTURE ASPIRATIONS are MASSIVE

To Counter the ENEMY.

The Enemy THAT ENJOYS a 10-1 ADAVANTAGE over PAF in annual AIR FORCE BUDGET

CURRENTLY enjoys a 3-1 superiority in BVR capable fighters....

And an ENEMY that currently OFFICALLY IS in joint development of a FIFTH GENERATION fighter the FGFA with RUSSIA.

_______________________________

I HAVE INTENTIONAL highlighted those 3 facts BECAUSE MOST PAKISTANIS diasreguard them. BUT ALL ARE REAL ISSUES.

let me explain

1. PAF annual air force allocation is aroound $1.2 billion ie 20% of its total budget
IAF is around $12 billion OR 30 % of its defense budget..

2. India currently has 300 su30mki mig29smt mig29k & mirage2000 4th gen fighters
PAF has 100 F16/J17 combined

3. India is officially a PARTNER in the PAK FA FGFA no secret THE ENTIRE world KNOWS this.

PAF is hoping & anticiapting THAT THE CHINEASE devope a low cost J31 in the next decade AND THAT they can buy this

on other words a COMPLETELY NON PLAYER NON INVERSTOR


those 3 realities SUM UP THE PAF CHALLENGE & ASPIRATIONS...