Pakistan, a British problem, but a German solution?

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Inshallah!!! Ghazwa-e-Hind is near!!

 

[darkinsky]

Inshallah!!! Ghazwa-e-Hind is near!!

bhagwan is on our side

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

bhagwan is on our side

Allah too is on our side brother!! Dont worry, ghazwa-e-hind is just about to happen.

 

[darkinsky]

Allah too is on our side brother!! Dont worry, ghazwa-e-hind is just about to happen.

inshallah, i suggest you to prepare for our welcome and raise Pakistani flag

 

[third eye]

@third eye

1) Muslims have been united before sam way Germany has. Just like that, Germany before the empire has been divided for a while and it is through the Prussians they reunited again.

3) This scenario assumes Pakistan control and rallying support for a war is doable, especially if Pakistan plays like Muslims were robbed by the Indians.

4) again Pakistan must be the dominate force, and the union must have certain rules that guarantees Pakistan say in matters of dispute. .

When were the Muslims united ?

You are presupposing that the entire Muslim world must join hands and follow Pakistan .. for what ? What does Pk have to lead the world with & why should they subjugate their national interests for Pk's sake ?

Muslims were robbed by India ? Do you take the world to be dumb ? The No of Muslims in Indis must be about the same as that in Pakistan. Also, what has the Muslim world done to protect the Muslims in Palestine ?

Muslims die at the hands of fellow Muslims more than any other religion.

The ' union' must have rules to guarantee Pk's say in matters of dispute !! .. Why ? Pk does not have a say in its own internal matters of dispute and things are not going to change any time soon.

Dream on.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

All

inshallah, i suggest you to prepare for our welcome and raise Pakistani flag

. Allah hu akbar !!! Its already ready brother. Let the ghazwa e hind begin.

 

[SrNair]

Funny fact is I dont see an Indian post a picture like this here.65 years waste and still dont know the lesson.pathetic.

 

[darkinsky]

Funny fact is I dont see an Indian post a picture like this here.65 years waste and still dont know the lesson.pathetic.

mashallah, please support ghazwa e hind

 

[SrNair]

mashallah, please support ghazwa e hind

I love Pakistan.I dont want to see a premature death of Pakistan due to Ghazwa e hind.But you ask me a favour.So ok lets Ghazwa -e hind begin.No one can change the fate

 

[rockstar08]

this thread is basically full of assumptions , but reality is very different from what it sees.
what I learn from posts that peoples are confused between few things.

1. Pakistan's fate , Pakistan written its fate on the day when they denote the nuclear bomb, and become the first Islamic country to make its own bomb, after that CIA , MOSSAD and MI6 they played 9/11 drama ( I don't want to go deep into that ) and today in Pakistan many intelligence agencies are operating ....almost all our politicians are either sold to foreign agencies or are working for different countries interest . we can not achieve anything economically or militarily until our nation is united , as nation we are not less than dead ... we as nation still confused that after killing of our 60000+ peoples in a WOT , our politicians are discussing that its our war or not ...

2. Muslim brotherhood , right now muslim brotherhood is impossible , all muslim countries is only trying to save their own ***'s from west , who ever try to resist his fate you can see in past few years , Iraq , Libya etc . another reason that we can not make muslim brotherhood is because right now there is no muslim country on earth where peoples is following Islamic laws , or even close to it ... look at arab , what arabs want today , expensive cars , iPhone s , and so many girls to Fcuk ...for now forget about greater pak or etc .. right now world is going on the path of greater Israel .

3. now lets have a look at some powerful muslim countries, Saudi Arabia completely sold themselves to Americans, I know some members from KSA will not agree with me , but that's bitter truth ...
turkey , its just muslim state on papers but culturally its completely like Europe .
Pakistan , corrupt politicians , dead nation , hypocrite media etc
and those who created OIC you already know what happen to them

conclusion , right now every muslim country is struggling for its own survival they are scared to create something like EU to unite muslim world because they know the fate of those who once tried to do this ... west is dominating the world here ,
Indians are just going with flow . they have advantage that they are friends with Israel and now usa because of their rising economy so they will enjoy things which are already in their favor .... for those Pakistani who still think that we can take IOK by force , I feel sad to blast this bumble because even if somehow we manage to defeat Indians in IOK , but india still have nuclear ,so when this taking iok by force is now not an option .. yeah but with talks we can do this .....

here I want to describe one thing that many members will not agree with me , I am not fan of zaid hamid or gazwa-e-hind , but when I study some hadith I believe that right now world is going exactly how prophet says , rise and downfall of muslims was foretold . as a muslim I believe that one day muslim world will unite again under the banner of Imam Mehndi but its far from today .. I don't know how this will happen and what will be the possible scenario but I believe this will happen .
for Pakistan right now its best to keep going with west support , first we need to fight with black sheep's amongst us. and a country will never rise up unless its peoples decide to change themselves . as a nation we need to make ourselves better , we need to differentiate between our enemies and friends. A strong military is necessary as a strong economy is needed . we need a leader to lead us ..not a religious nor a complete secular .....the day our nation decide that either we will make Pakistan a secular state or Islamic Republic of Pakistan , the day things will start working in our favors .
may be few peoples who understand the geopolitics of world know that now west is no longer strong as it was 2-3 decades ago , now with the arab spring the war is now killing western countries economically , USA is struggling to continue war in Afghanistan and Iraq where he already lost , in Syrian matter Russia show its influence to the world and now on Ukraine .
but still rise of muslims again is far for now ....
Pakistan has tendency to bring all muslim world on table and make a muslim brotherhood but for this Pakistan itself should become a strong country , a country who can make its decisions on its own , a country who can help other muslims state economically or militarily , along with turkey , KSA , Malaysia , Indonesia etc , we can rise again but first we need to fight the " fitna " which is amongst us ( muslims ) , we need to be tolerant and don't let any muslim country to be used to harm any other Islamic state , the solution is not by killing non muslims from the countries but to make good relationship with them , USA become super power not just because of its military but usa treat everyone equally within their country , they were kind and honest with their peoples that's why USA become super power , with help of people you can achieve impossible goals .

 

[KingMamba]

Let's go twenty years back of the battle of Ayn al-Jalut.When the Mongols retreated to Russia in 1242 after their failed invasion of Europe which brought nothing significant to their treasury as they thought it would have before their attack, the Mongol officers stationed in Crimea struck a deal with Italian merchants. In exchange of large amount of trade goods, the Mongols allowed their European prisoners to sale as slaves in the Mediterranean markets, most of them were sold to the Sultan of Egypt. Sultan's army were composed of Kipchaks (one particular clan of the Turks, who previously refused to fight the Mongols few years back) and the Slavs who had plenty of experiences in fighting the Mongols in Europe.

Why I criticized the examples of Ottomans brought here was the misconception of Muslim unity in spite of the age old rivalry and traditional political attrition among Muslims themselves. The points to bolster Op's arguments are weak and vulnerable due to historical facts. That was the context of my post.

You are wrong, first when I say Mamluk I am talking about the ruling dynasty of Egypt and not the army. Second even if the army was made up of slav imports than those slavs were themselves Muslims and lastly they had 0 experience fighting Mongols because the make up of the Mamluk army was that they would recruit young slaves usually children and then have them become Muslims and train them until they became expert soldiers. This would give them an army with religious fervor, loyalty, and years of experience in the art of warfare although they would have 0 battle experience until they fought for the Egyptians themselves.

Muslim unity means one sovereign who all other acknowledge the only times we have had that is Ummayad, Abbasids, and then Ottomans hence those are referred to as times when there was "unity".

 

[scorpionx]

You are wrong.

May be I am wrong. But hard to believe Mr.Jack Weatherford will be wrong too. The Mongol penetration could not be checked by the so called "Islamic spirit" as you claim when Helagu's army defeated the Nizari Ismailis in Alamut and captured Assassin's castle.No other Muslim state responded to the plea of Caliph of Baghdad when he called for an all out Jihad against the Mongols.The fact is the Mongols reached their zenith and they simply couldn't go beyond the region they have reached. And about this time they lost one of their finest general Mongke Khan in far east. There were reasons why the Mongols were invincible in Europe and Arab. About the time they fought near the sea of Galilee, they lost their primary advantages.Several reasons played for the defeat of the Mongols but an unified Islamic spirit hardly played any role.

 

[KingMamba]

May be I am wrong. But hard to believe Mr.Jack Weatherford will be wrong too. The Mongol penetration could not be checked by the so called "Islamic spirit" as you claim when Helagu's army defeated the Nizari Ismailis in Alamut and captured Assassin's castle.No other Muslim state responded to the plea of Caliph of Baghdad when he called for an all out Jihad against the Mongols.The fact is the Mongols reached their zenith and they simply couldn't go beyond the region they have reached. And about this time they lost one of their finest general Mongke Khan in far east. There were reasons why the Mongols were invincible in Europe and Arab. About the time they fought near the sea of Galilee, they lost their primary advantages.Several reasons played for the defeat of the Mongols but an unified Islamic spirit hardly played any role.

LOL You forget the part Berke Khan played and his involvement was entirely due to the sack of Baghdad. When the mongols were bringing another force West in order to avenge their defeat at the hands of the Mamluks the Golden Horde intercepted and destroyed the army. This led to the start of the Mongol civil war and the disintegration of the whole empire. The Caliph of Baghdad at that point was not considered anything more than a Caliph and each local dynasty only acknowledged his caliphate but did not give tribute to him. Also you say nobody answered the call but when Baghdad was sacked there were only two Muslim dynasties left in tact and that was the Mamluks and after Berke's conversion the Golden Horde in Russia both of whom did declare war and defeat the mongols. So idk who else you would expect to come? Also the defeat of the assassins would find no sympathy among Muslim kings because those assassins even killed top Muslim officials and were considered a menace by all.

Also not soon after most of the khanates ended up converting to Islam anyway including Hulagu's own descendants in Persia and the Mongol threat pretty much ended.

As for the sea of galilee those were crusader kingdoms and they were neutral so they had nothing to do with either side although ironically the crusaders allowed the Mamluks to pass through unimpeded to Ain Jalut because they were scared of the mongols and thought the Mamluks were the last hope for the region. Mongke khan conquered much of the middle east but once he became khagan he went east to fix the administration and the rest was left to Hulagu.

 

[scorpionx]

@KingMamba

My view is quite opposed to the notion that it was the "Islamic Spirit" that checked the Mongol penetration in Middle East as there are several vital tactical factors played against the invaders. So we can agree to disagree and stick to our own ideas here.

 

[KingMamba]

@KingMamba

My view is quite opposed to the notion that it was the "Islamic Spirit" that checked the Mongol penetration in Middle East as there are several vital tactical factors played against the invaders. So we can agree to disagree and stick to our own ideas here.

I never said it was Islamic spirit whatever that is lol but it was Muslims who stopped Mongols once and for all whether you like it or not. It had way more to do with survival though but I am guessing this letter Hulagu sent to Cairo may have increased the religious motivations behind the war.

"From the King of Kings of the East and West, the Great Khan. To Qutuz the Mamluk, who fled to escape our swords. You should think of what happened to other countries and submit to us. You have heard how we have conquered a vast empire and have purified the earth of the disorders that tainted it. We have conquered vast areas, massacring all the people. You cannot escape from the terror of our armies. Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor armies stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled. Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then will kill your children and your old men together. At present you are the only enemy against whom we have to march."