Pak to start production of high tech Al-Khalid 2 tank

[war&peace]

• 
  Pakistan: 1,600 M113 APCs in Service of the Pakistan Army.[73]

Ps. Talha is based on on the M113.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/complete-list-of-mraps-apcs-ifvs-used-by-pakistan-military.352559/

But what about sabres, star-fighters & pattons? as you mentioned and as you didn't use any suitable punctuation to separate them..I thought you made claims about of them. As far as M113 is concerned, I know it is still being used in supports role and it is not just PA, even US army is still using them
From wikkipedia

The M113 introduced new aluminum armor that made the vehicle much lighter than earlier vehicles; it was thick enough to protect the crew and passengers against small arms fire but light enough that the vehicle was air transportable and moderately amphibious. In the U.S. Army, the M113 series have long been replaced as front-line combat vehicles by the M2 and M3 Bradleys, but large numbers are still used in support roles such as armored ambulance, mortar carrier, engineer vehicle, and command vehicle. The army's heavy brigade combat teams are equipped with around 6,000 M113s and 4,000 Bradleys.

 

[HRK]

However at the lower level there is instability and possibility of limited war. For instance India might venture to go for a armoured attack to "teach Pakistan" a lesson. However the article you posted makes it clear that Pakistan would then use tactical nuclear weapons to destroy the Indian armoured attack. The conflict would then come to end as India would not want to turn this into a all out nuclear war.

this is partly true .... Why
1- Instability at tactical level (Conventional) can provide the opportunity for war under nuclear threshold
2- Which in Inida/Pakistan scenario could mean a war with the sole purpose to have political gains in Domestic theater you can take last Israel-Hizbullah war as an example or from our region recall the events after Mumbai attack
3- To avoid any such scenario it is needed to have balance of power between the conventional forces of both countries so that any possibility of initiating the war remain minimum keep in mind in the case of war we have to fight it with the conventional weapons first for the sustainable period of time, nuclear option (even the tactical nuclear weapons) will only come into play IF we fail to sustain our defence with conventional resources.
4- Last but most important point no one can guarantee that tactical nuclear weapon will end the war their presence just theoretically establish a situation where we will preempt with tactical nuclear weapon and the opposite side will have to decide to respond with Strategic weapons with their GAINS and LOSES in their mind

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

this is partly true .... Why
1- Instability at tactical level (Conventional) can provide the opportunity for war under nuclear threshold
2- Which in Inida/Pakistan scenario could mean a war with the sole purpose to have political gains in Domestic theater you can take last Israel-Hizbullah war as an example or from our region recall the events after Mumbai attack
3- To avoid any such scenario it is needed to have balance of power between the conventional forces of both countries so that any possibility of initiating the war remain minimum keep in mind in the case of war we have to fight it with the conventional weapons first for the sustainable period of time, nuclear option (even the tactical nuclear weapons) will only come into play IF we fail to sustain our defence with conventional resources.
4- Last but most important point no one can guarantee that tactical nuclear weapon will end the war their presence just theoretically establish a situation where we will preempt with tactical nuclear weapon and the opposite side will have to decide to respond with Strategic weapons with their GAINS and LOSES in their mind

I remember @Oscar wrote about utter criminal negligence on part of some officials who are involved in development of our Tanks...Do you know about it?

 

[Awan68]

thanks mate.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But what about sabres, star-fighters & pattons?

If you read my sentance [maybe poorly constructed] I only meant the M113s. I know Starfighters are now only found decorating major roundabouts and Pattons sit in museums.

 

[HRK]

I remember @Oscar wrote about utter criminal negligence on part of some officials who are involved in development of our Tanks...Do you know about it?

no...

 

[war&peace]

I remember @Oscar wrote about utter criminal negligence on part of some officials who are involved in development of our Tanks...Do you know about it?

Bro it is always good to check with multiple sources since not everyone can be good at everything. We all know about a particular field in great depth while have no or a very shallow knowledge about the rest.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

no...

Bro it is always good to check with multiple sources since not everyone can be good at everything. We all know about a particular field in great depth while have no or a very shallow knowledge about the rest.

I remember in one specific thread which was about India buying advanced anti tank cluster bombs from US (if I remember correctly), he said: Many Pakistani tankers are going to meet their makers due to this. He was, as I recall, may be talking about anti radiation/nuclear management system to be put into our tanks but that advice was denied. He was disappointed.

 

[HRK]

I remember in one specific thread which was about India buying advanced anti tank cluster bombs from US (if I remember correctly), he said: Many Pakistani tankers are going to meet their makers due to this. He was, as I recall, may be talking about anti radiation/nuclear management system to be put into our tanks but that advice was denied. He was disappointed.

he was talking about the electromagnetic shielding of tanks electronics or communication system like Faraday shield at the time of up gradation of older tanks not about the tanks armored protection, at that time the suggestion was turned down with absurd response that Indian tanks did not have this capability at time. If I am not wrong this happened during 2003-2007 time period

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

he was talking about the electromagnetic shielding of tanks electronics or communication system like Faraday shield at the time of up gradation of older tanks not about the tanks armored protection, at that time the suggestion was turned down with absurd response that Indian tanks did not have this capability at time. If I am not wrong this happened during 2003-2007 time period

Yes...This was the case...Thanks. I hope we incorporate this tech in AK2

 

[Gryphon]

That was a deal worth $600 million for 200 engines along with transfer of technology and overhaul of Pakistan army armour. Those 200 engines are for Al Khalid 1 not 2

MoU was worth USD 600 million, including 200 engines (which Ukrainian sources speculate are 6TD-3).

 

[war&peace]

Yes...This was the case...Thanks. I hope we incorporate this tech in AK2

Well, I hope we do. Our problem is that we always think of buying stuff from off-the-shelf due to the inferiority complex rampant in our leadership and also due to the involvement of kickbacks and commissions. We only think about indigenous development if we get denied an essential technology. Otherwise if we are into true R&D, we can develop the tech inside our countries and ahead of time and then it will be cheaper to incorporate. We lack the sincerity and futuristic vision. I can list a lot of systems that will change the future of warfare but apparently nothing of that sort seems to be on the minds of our strategists and planners. I have been thinking about quiet a few systems and I'm in contact with some of our "elders". I pray Allah give them hidaya and they start thinking about the future of the nation and not about their job extensions and perks & privileges.

 

[razgriz19]

I hope theyre going to install an Active protection system

 

[Maarkhoor]

I am not aware of any AK.2 development recently....HIT produces two prototypes few years back but for some undisclosed reasons no further development reported.

 

[Signalian]

I remember in one specific thread which was about India buying advanced anti tank cluster bombs from US (if I remember correctly), he said: Many Pakistani tankers are going to meet their makers due to this. He was, as I recall, may be talking about anti radiation/nuclear management system to be put into our tanks but that advice was denied. He was disappointed.

An MBT isnt designed to combat an aircraft deploying cluster bombs, thats the job of SAM, which PA must purchase at some stage. There was a chatter of Russian SAM systems which were displayed in pictures.

That is subjective. I would say no more than 500 tanks.

Agreed. Which is why I have said in other threads Pak does not need a large navy. A small coastel force and few ships is enough to perform maritime security tasks.

What Pakistan needs doing is -

• Have a small "strike force" in the army ~ max 500 tanks. This should provide sufficient nuclear threshold. Too high and it increases the possibility of war as both countries might feel they can accomplish or "play" within the threshold. A more tighter and lower threshold will force governments on both sides to behave themselves and stay within the very tight "red lines". This would reduce room for adventure and war. Whatever threshold Pakistan goes for India will be able to destroy as India simply has far greater population resources by a factor of 6.5 times and can deploy a vastly greater conventional force.
  
• 
  
• Therefore go for a low threshold that does not strain Pakistan's resources that might lead to something similiar as what happened to Soviet Union and implode under the strain.
  
• 
  
• Thus have a lean military with clear and unambiogious declared nuclear use policy as deterance. India must know that as soon as the small Pak Army "strike force" is destroyed Pakistan will place the finger on the trigger. Leaving no doubts in New Delhi what the consequences will be of continued progression in hostilities.
• 
  
• Maintain a robust defence posture layered as follows on a escalating progressive scale. 1 - Conventional strike force. 2 - Tactical nuclear force. 3. Strategic nuclear force.
• 
  
• Understand that with nuclear forces in place there is nominal threat to Pakistan from any exogenous states including India or even USA. Thus focus on nuclear forces making sure they keep a robust and effective nuclear profile and that is conspicious by it's deployment.
• 
  
• Understand that at present the greatest threat to the Pakistani state is from internal schisms and radical groups. Followed by economic collapse that would feed into the schisms and radical groups agenda. Therefore money saved from the reduced "India centric " forces is invested in huge internal security force similar to Turkish Jandarma numbering at least 400,000 that has air, MRAPs, all other specialist equipent to go and secure the internal stability of the country by taking on all radical and anti-state groups head on.

Increase money on primary education nuturing a new generation that can help leverage the massive potential of the CPEC project and trade with China.

At this stage, its wise to go for MRAP induction than AK-2.