Pak Taliban declares an “open war” against Pakistan

[batmannow]

I hope the army can do its job but also that its avoids collateral damage as much as possible.

To quote MastanKhans signature the army is a broadsword and not a scalpel.

Dear, sir...JK, its not a time to worried for collateral dammage Anymore , Actully! its the time for no mercy for these hardcore killers. PAKARMY, have go extreme, if it is intersted to defend the mother land from the AXIXS OF DEVIL. whatever it takes! GO AHEAD PAKISTAN

 

[JK!]

Dear, sir...JK, its not a time to worried for collateral dammage Anymore , Actully! its the time for no mercy for these hardcore killers. PAKARMY, have go extreme, if it is intersted to defend the mother land from the AXIXS OF DEVIL. whatever it takes! GO AHEAD PAKISTAN

I do agree Batmannow and I am very much in favour of a no retreat, no mercy, no prisoners doctrine with these Terrorists and criminals.

However, unlike the US/Nato/Isaf Pakistan is fighting in our home country and some of the people in FATA are pro Pakistani and haven't been able to come out and support the state for fear of reprisals and executions.

This is a delicate matter for the Pakistani Army and it must be handled properly if they are to succeed. Inshallah they will succeed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Militants stop people from leaving Bajaur
​

By Anwarullah Khan


KHAR, Aug 13: Militants in Bajaur Agency are using local people as human shield with air force planes continuing to bomb different areas. Twenty-four people, including some militants, were killed on Wednesday.

Local people said militants had stopped families in Mamond tehsil from leaving the area.

“Militants forced the fleeing tribesmen to stay back. The men were given Kalashnikovs and asked to keep their women in homes,” said a man in Mamond. He said the militants had asked the people to take part in what they called jihad against ‘infidels’.

People in Salarzai have also been stopped from leaving their homes and the area.

Witnesses said planes and helicopters attacked several areas in Khar and Mamond tehsils. Several houses in Damadola, Kaga, Neiag Banda, Lowi Sam and Khaza were hit.

According to sources, planes bombed Kairwana where local people had gathered for a funeral.

Heavy bombing killed at least 16 people, some suspected militants among them.

Planes and helicopters started bombing different parts of Bajaur on Friday after militants besieged over 150 security personnel in Lowi Sam and laid a siege to Khar, the local administrative headquarters.

More than 100 people, including militants, and 24 soldiers have been killed and dozens of houses demolished.

According to official sources, F-16 aircraft have been used in the conflict for the first time.

Security forces urged farmers to cut the maize crop in areas (around 200 metres) along the highway between Inayetkali and Khar so that it was not used for ambush.

The sources said the militants had sent a jirga to ask paramilitary forces in Saddiqabad to vacate a checkpoint, but the jirga was rebuffed by the authorities.

Meanwhile, displaced people have complained that they were stopped at Lowari Top from entering Chitral. They informed the authorities in Lower Dir that the administration and some people did not allow them to enter Chitral. People have been leaving Bajaur and going to Dir, Peshawar and other areas in the Frontier province.

Militants stop people from leaving Bajaur -DAWN - Top Stories; August 14, 2008

I agree with JK - a lot of these people are being forced by the militants to support them.

This just show show despicable these militants are. Cowards hiding behind innocent people.

 

[martialLAW]

May I offer some caution and restraint to some posters encouragement of the Pak. military assault on extremists" and "terrorists".

May I remind everyone that there is no support for the US "War On Terror" as it is, rightly, regarded as a war on Islamic values and muslim political unity. The mandate given to the civilian government was to cease cooperation with Washington on its agenda to extend bloodshed into Pakistan

Unfortunately, the civilian government has chosen to shred their mandate in a mincer and have continued to embrace US imperialism . . . attacking their own countrymen as soon as the next load of US dollars arrive from Washington. This has lead to revenge attacks and the whole bloody cycle starts, again.

The military . . . for those that know them . . . will not fight their own people, the people of Pakistan do not support The War On Terror and the continuation of attacks by the Pakistani military in the tribal regions will have Pakistanis rallying to their call.

Many on these forums are, hopelessly, out of touch with the 'Pakistani Street'.

 

[IceCold]

May I offer some caution and restraint to some posters encouragement of the Pak. military assault on extremists" and "terrorists".

May I remind everyone that there is no support for the US "War On Terror" as it is, rightly, regarded as a war on Islamic values and muslim political unity. The mandate given to the civilian government was to cease cooperation with Washington on its agenda to extend bloodshed into Pakistan

Unfortunately, the civilian government has chosen to shred their mandate in a mincer and have continued to embrace US imperialism . . . attacking their own countrymen as soon as the next load of US dollars arrive from Washington. This has lead to revenge attacks and the whole bloody cycle starts, again.

The military . . . for those that know them . . . will not fight their own people, the people of Pakistan do not support The War On Terror and the continuation of attacks by the Pakistani military in the tribal regions will have Pakistanis rallying to their call.

Many on these forums are, hopelessly, out of touch with the 'Pakistani Street'.

no dude many are not out of touch from the pakistani street, also what opinion are you off about guys like Mehsud and that Mullah FM in Swat? This is not even about WOT anymore as these guys have no intention in fighting against the US or NATO, their mission is a foreign sponsored and that is too support terrorism into Pakistan and to destabilize it. Why do you think that when the US was given the exact location to hit Mehsud, they did not? or why do you think that all of a sudden propaganda has started against the ISI? Its time for us to wake up and stop protecting these bastards in the name of our own people of Islam. They need to be bombed back to hell.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

May I offer some cation and restraint in some posters encoragement of the Pak. military to assault "extremists" and "terrorists".

May I remind everyone that there is no support for the US "War On Terror" as it is, rightly, regarded as a war on Islamic values and muslim political unity. The mandate given to the civilian government was to cease cooperation with Washington on its agenda to extend bloodshed into Pakistan

Unfortunately, the civilian government has chosen to shred their mandate in a mincer and have continued to embrace US imperialism . . . attacking their own countrymen as soon as the next load of US dollars arrive from Washington. This has lead to revenge attacks and the whole bloody cycle starts, again.

The military . . . for those that know them . . . will not fight their own people, the people of Pakistan do not support The War On Terror and the continuation of of attacks by the Pakistani military in the tribal regions will have Pakistanis rallying to their call.

Many on these forums are, hopelessly, out of touch with the 'Pakistani Street'.

We are quiet aware of what the Pakistani street wants. Unfortunately following the demands of the Pakistani street, which this government did do until the recent operations in Swat and Bajaur, has only led to a spread in Talibanization, and no halt in the violence against civilians, 'immoral businesses' or State interests.

Given that the peace deals have collapsed quite spectacularly, entirely due to the fact that the militants have no intention of stopping their campaign to gain power and forcefully enforce Shariah, and Al Qaeda has established strong roots in the Tribal belt (going by the number of senior operatives being killed there), military intervention is the only option left to clear these areas and initiate development.

The mandate given to the government was for restoring peace and stability in Pakistan, given the above situation where dialog has failed, the government is now utilizing the military option - to try and cast this as 'not following the peoples mandate' and 'embracing US imperialism' is disingenuousness of the highest order.

It is tantamount to claiming that Pakistan should never try policies, even if they are in its interest and the only feasible solutions left, merely because the US has advocated them. Instead of canards about 'embracing US imperialism', perhaps you could explain why Pakistan should not try the military option (coupled with development once areas are cleared), since dialog has failed?

 

[IceCold]

May I offer some caution and restraint to some posters encouragement of the Pak. military assault on extremists" and "terrorists".

May I remind everyone that there is no support for the US "War On Terror" as it is, rightly, regarded as a war on Islamic values and muslim political unity. The mandate given to the civilian government was to cease cooperation with Washington on its agenda to extend bloodshed into Pakistan

Unfortunately, the civilian government has chosen to shred their mandate in a mincer and have continued to embrace US imperialism . . . attacking their own countrymen as soon as the next load of US dollars arrive from Washington. This has lead to revenge attacks and the whole bloody cycle starts, again.

The military . . . for those that know them . . . will not fight their own people, the people of Pakistan do not support The War On Terror and the continuation of attacks by the Pakistani military in the tribal regions will have Pakistanis rallying to their call.

Many on these forums are, hopelessly, out of touch with the 'Pakistani Street'.

no dude many are not out of touch from the pakistani street, also what opinion are you off about guys like Mehsud and that Mullah FM in Swat? This is not even about WOT anymore as these guys have no intention in fighting against the US or NATO, their mission is a foreign sponsored and that is too support terrorism into Pakistan and to destabilize it. Why do you think that when the US was given the exact location to hit Mehsud, they did not? or why do you think that all of a sudden propaganda has started against the ISI? Its time for us to wake up and stop protecting these bastards in the name of our own people of Islam. They need to be bombed back to hell.

 

[Munir]

Isn't it true that the same government of Nawa and Zardari bashed Musharraf for meing a slave of the USA and now exactly do that? Isn't it true that thanks to the time offered by this corrupt government the Taleban and Al Qaida regrouped? So we are the stupid once if we believe any word of these pathetic liers...

It was about CJ and now all abou Mushy... When will these people do somethign for the real poor Pakistani?

 

[IceCold]

Isn't it true that the same government of Nawa and Zardari bashed Musharraf for meing a slave of the USA and now exactly do that? Isn't it true that thanks to the time offered by this corrupt government the Taleban and Al Qaida regrouped? So we are the stupid once if we believe any word of these pathetic liers...

It was about CJ and now all abou Mushy... When will these people do somethign for the real poor Pakistani?

The real poor Pakistanis are the ones who brought this tola into the government and will have to suffer as a direct result of their voting.

 

[martialLAW]

The Saban Center [Brookings Institution] at the University of Maryland in conjunction with the Zogby International organisation have conducted extensive surveys of Muslim attitudes on a whole host of issues, including the Shariah.

The University of Maryland has bolstered its polling exercises with its START survey that has highlighted, amongst other things, that in Morocco 76% of muslims support the strict application of Shariah within their country, Egypt 74%, Indonesia 53% and Pakistan . . . 79%.

The START survey, also, reveals that muslims favouring a pullout of American troops from the Muslim World stands at 72% in Morocco, 92% in Egypt, 64% in Indonesia and 71% in Pakistan.

The findings of these polls is reflected in other surveys such as the Pew Global Research analysis that recorded support for the US "War On Terror" standing at 14% in Turkey, 30% in Pakistan, 10% in Egypt, 39% in Indonesia and 16% in Jordan.

The hostility towards America is a political fact and reality from Morocco in west to Indonesia in the east . . . the views of some on this forum is at odds with the mainstream + global muslim opinion.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Martial Law -

The statistics you posted are again a distraction from the fact that in Paksitan the Taliban organizations, committed to violence and spreading their obscurantist ideology through fear and force, are expanding due to the 'peace deals'.It is a fact that the peace deals have only resulted in these organizations strengthening, while disrespecting the terms of the peace deals and continuing to use violence.

You criticized us for supporting military solutions, well, given that the 'dialog option' has failed, why shouldn't military solutions be tried?

The alternative is to let these militants continue to spread chaos.

 

[martialLAW]

Sorry . . . I forgot the citations.

REFERENCES:

Pew Global Attitudes Project: America’s Image in the World: Findings from the Pew Global Attitudes Project

World Public Opinion

 

[martialLAW]

Martial Law -

The statistics you posted are again a distraction from the fact that in Paksitan the Taliban organizations, committed to violence and spreading their obscurantist ideology through fear and force, are expanding due to the 'peace deals'.It is a fact that the peace deals have only resulted in these organizations strengthening, while disrespecting the terms of the peace deals and continuing to use violence.

You criticized us for supporting military solutions, well, given that the 'dialog option' has failed, why shouldn't military solutions be tried?

The alternative is to let these militants continue to spread chaos.

The tribes and the Pakistani arm of the Taliban have the utmost respect for Pakistans military. However, they are aware [as are most Pakistanis] that Islamabad is a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Empire . . . the politcal system is bankrupt and self-serving and the some of the military top brass have a greater devotion to their 'pay and perks' than service to their nation. This is an undeniable reality of Pakistan in the early 21st century.

A credible political authority in Islamabad would cease military cooperation with the United States and would then be in a commanding position to gain the confidence of the people in the tribal belt. Pakistanis have no confidence in Islamabad because of its status as a US 'lackey' . . . no wonder the Pakistani Taliban treat it with contempt.

The message is a clear and resounding one . . . the government in Islamabad can cite no support for its continuing involvement in the "War On Terror" . . . it harms muslims, undermines Pakistans interests [at home and abroad] and is, ultimately, doomed to failure.

Lets not forget what people supporting a military assault in the tribal belt are advocating . . . nothing more than the Pakistani military declaring war on their own people for American objectives. It is a shameful and disgraceful position . . . Pakistanis don't support it and the military will not carry it out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The tribes and the Pakistani arm of the Taliban have the utmost respect for Pakistans military. However, they are aware [as are most Pakistanis] that Islamabad is a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Empire . . . the politcal system is bankrupt and self-serving and the some of the military top brass have a greater devotion to their 'pay and perks' than service to their nation. This is an undeniable reality of Pakistan in the early 21st century.

A credible political authority in Islamabad would cease military cooperation with the United States and would then be in a commanding position to gain the confidence of the people in the tribal belt. Pakistanis have no confidence in Islamabad because of its status as a US 'lackey' . . . no wonder the Pakistani Taliban treat it with contempt.

The message is a clear and resounding one . . . the government in Islamabad can cite no support for its continuing involvement in the "War On Terror" . . . it harms muslims, undermines Pakistans interests [at home and abroad] and is, ultimately, doomed to failure.

Lets not forget what people supporting a military assault in the tribal belt are advocating . . . nothing more than the Pakistani military declaring war on their own people for American objectives. It is a shameful and disgraceful position . . . Pakistanis don't support it and the military will not carry it out.

The TTP has no respect for Pakistan or the Pakistani military - the Tribes do, as do various other Taliban groups concerned more with the occupation by NATO in Afghanistan, such as those of Mullah Nazir. Those groups have not been fought, and have in fact been utilized to neutralize the TTP's expansion in FATA.

Grouping all of the Pakistani Taliban organizations into one, and portraying them as having the same objective is flawed. Pakistan's political system may be bankrupt but that is what the electoral process is for. A bankrupt political system does not mean that vigilante groups be let lose trying to impose their will upon everyone.

The fight in the Tribal areas is not against all Taliban at this point, it is primarily against the TTP, and it si not 'declaring war on our own people' , it is declaring war on those committing suicide bombings, blowing up barber shops and other self declared 'immoral businesses'. It is no different than a police raid on a den of criminals who have murdered people, criminals who would be shot to death if they did not surrender. In this case the criminals happen to be just a little too well armed and trained for 'police'.

 

[araz]

I do agree Batmannow and I am very much in favour of a no retreat, no mercy, no prisoners doctrine with these Terrorists and criminals.

However, unlike the US/Nato/Isaf Pakistan is fighting in our home country and some of the people in FATA are pro Pakistani and haven't been able to come out and support the state for fear of reprisals and executions.

This is a delicate matter for the Pakistani Army and it must be handled properly if they are to succeed. Inshallah they will succeed.

I strongly disagree.
Harshness in combat and arrogance is not the trait of a Musalman. We are muslims and most importantly part of a law abiding nation who conform to the Geneva convention in case of War.
These morons may not be worth pitying, but think of the poor people who are caught in the midst of all this confrontation. What sins have they commited?
Also bear in mind, that if you develop a reputation of abiding by the law rather than unlawful killings, no one will surrender to you.
So stick to the Law at all times. This is the difference between an unruly mob and a law abiding nation.
WaSalam
Araz