Pak ready to loose Kashmir?

[civfanatic]

Almost half of Azad Kashmiris are not ethnic Kashmiris, but somehow they call themselves Kashmiris because they are from that region.... they are Punjabis (pothwari speakers), they are the same people you find in the Punjab region of Pakistan....they are really very patriotic...I dont know many ethnic real Kashmiris who speak Kashmiri just know 1 here in U.S. and he is a very patriotic Pakistani, I know most ethnic Kashmiris rather have their own independent country...and most real ethnic Kashmiris live in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

Im ethnic kashmiri and I live in IOK let me assure you most of us would love to be part of pakistan .

 

[Omar1984]

Im ethnic kashmiri and I live in IOK let me assure you most of us would love to be part of pakistan .

Thanks one of my friends is also ethnic Kashmiri, he speaks Kashmiri and follows Kashmiri traditions, hes from Rawalakot, Azad Kashmir and is a patriotic Pakistani,,,he loves Pakistan.

We Pakistanis trust Kashmiris and we want Kashmiris to make their decision on what they want for their land and we will accept it. India wants Kashmir so they can control the water that flows through Pakistan. They want to change the way water flows through Pakistan, they want to change the way Allah made our rivers. We Pakistanis trust Kashmiris with our water but we will NEVER trust Indians they want to steal all our water.

 

[ajpirzada]

Kashmir has 3 major areas...One is Indian Kashmir..Second Pakistan Kashmir..which includes Azadi kashmir (Very small portion) and norther kashmir including Siachen. China kashmir including Aksai Kashmir (Taken from India) and border near Siachen handed over to china by pakistan.

Independent kashmir is possible if all govts agree to give up this much land. Its not pakistan giving strip of azadi kashmir.

Incase of independent kashmir US wants to rule it and all its negotiations are is to make independent kashmir. India is against to this formula and opposing US between india pak . Even india warned OBAMA not to enter into kashmir issue...u got my point


Kashmir Map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Kashmir_map_big.jpg/522px-Kashmir_map_big.jpg

i do kind of get ur conspiracy theory. but the question is wat exactly is india proposing. just bec US intends to do that, should we carry on fighting?????????
pakistan is almost ready for anything.
the only problem at this point is that india is not willing to accept any proposal and is neither comin up with one. u guys want to keep ur hold on kashmir by force.
now i will ask u to propose some kind of solution which makes sence and not lik the topic of this thread.

here are mine:
1: UN resolution
2: have two different elections. one in kashmir and the other in jammu
3: J&K to become a shared territory bw india and pakistan
4: J&K to become independent but with no rights on her water.
5: J&K to become independent. and electricity produced there will be exported to both india and pakistan on the basis of some fixed ratio.
6: carry on fightin.

i am more in favour of 1,2,3 and 5 coz that will also be acceptable to ppl of kashmir. 4 might or might not be accpetable for kashmiris coz that is their main resource.
remember it has to be a win win situation for all three parties which are india pakistan and ppl of J&K.

 

[roopesh]

i do kind of get ur conspiracy theory. but the question is wat exactly is india proposing. just bec US intends to do that, should we carry on fighting?????????
pakistan is almost ready for anything.
the only problem at this point is that india is not willing to accept any proposal and is neither comin up with one. u guys want to keep ur hold on kashmir by force. .

India is not proposing anything. India asked US not to interfear in kashmir issue as India is against US military base in kashmir. -- This is point 1.

Now lets involve 3rd party to discuss on kashmir like US or UN. Will pakistan agree to release the whole kashmir not a strip of kashmir? Will pakistan supports US presense in kashmir and remember pakistan wont be able to rule or command kashmir.

In my view all pakistan wants is freedom for water and india dont want to loose it. Please dont bring allah for this issue. We have muslims..even you. Allah is not property of pakistan to claim. he is for everyone. I call him as bhagavan u call him as allah. For the matter of fact is its from India. Lets say pakistan has urenium resource ...will you give it to India as its also from Allah. NO. All natural resources are considered to be national wealth. Not as gods gift my dear. India is suffering from drinking water problem. If the dream project of river joining comes to picture after 10-20 years then whole india would have proper distributed water. In that time we will be able to decide the water proportions. Why will india think to loose? This is my POV on india.

 

[roopesh]

now i will ask u to propose some kind of solution which makes sence and not lik the topic of this thread.

here are mine:
1: UN resolution
2: have two different elections. one in kashmir and the other in jammu
3: J&K to become a shared territory bw india and pakistan
4: J&K to become independent but with no rights on her water.
5: J&K to become independent. and electricity produced there will be exported to both india and pakistan on the basis of some fixed ratio.
6: carry on fightin.

i am more in favour of 1,2,3 and 5 coz that will also be acceptable to ppl of kashmir. 4 might or might not be accpetable for kashmiris coz that is their main resource.
remember it has to be a win win situation for all three parties which are india pakistan and ppl of J&K.

If it was between few ppl issue would have solved long time before. its unfortunate it wont.
Today pakistan and india have lost each other trust. Indians doenst believe in pakistanis and pakistan doesnt believe in india. Also independent kashmir concept itself is under controversy. India wants china to release its kashmir portion and pakistan to add siachen area to azadi kashmir. So no solution can be derived

THe best solution is declare the LOC as the international border and allow ppl again to migrate for a while. ppl who ever not happy with being in indian kashmir can move to pakistan and indian govt should pay for their property. And if at all any indian supporter from otherside wants to come here welcome..
So no more fights.

 

[roopesh]

Im ethnic kashmiri and I live in IOK let me assure you most of us would love to be part of pakistan .

Good that we have one IOK person so i can ask questions without media...u know peace in your region is not something achieved over years. Your daily life might be affected. living under tension is horrible. what are you guys doing over years? wats really going on? wat r u hoping to happen soon?
i respect your idea and openion. Have you guys ever thought of shifting to pakistan thinking its much safer to live? OR have you ever thought of shifting to other states of india which is more peaceful. Give some idea about your group or family rather than a mass media report of violations blasts army demo...etc

 

[UnitedPak]

THe best solution is declare the LOC as the international border and allow ppl again to migrate for a while. ppl who ever not happy with being in indian kashmir can move to pakistan and indian govt should pay for their property. And if at all any indian supporter from otherside wants to come here welcome..
So no more fights.

This issue has to be solved in one way or another for the sake of South Asia, and the main issue is the Kashmiri people so it should be their decision entirely. We have to forget India and Pakistan and do everything according to the wishes of Kashmiri people.

There is nothing unreasonable about granting them a referendum which was promised to them by British India, modern India, and the UN. However it is very unreasonably to tell them to leave their lands behind, especially when they represent 95%+ of the land.

I dont see why India wants to drag this on. It must be costing them a fortune to keep a million troops stationed in Kashmir, and constantly needing to upgrade their equipment and weaponry. Surely there are better things both countries could be doing. Once this issue is solved, everything in the region will change for the better. How is this not a good prospect?
Why insist on dragging this issue for another 60 years? Muslims in Kashmir have higher birth rates, do you realise the costs of occupying them will only go up?
There is only so long this issue can be ignored by the international community, especially since there are Nuclear weapons involved.

Please suggest something new.

 

[Omar1984]

I think the best solution to the problem is India keeps Jammu and Ladakh. Pakistan keeps Northern Areas. Azad Kashmir merges with Kashmir valley and becomes either an independent country or a state administered by Pakistanis, Kashmiris, and Indians... of course Kashmiris have to have the final say on this topic.

 

[UnitedPak]

I think the best solution to the problem is India keeps Jammu and Ladakh. Pakistan keeps Northern Areas. Azad Kashmir merges with Kashmir valley and becomes either an independent country or a state administered by Pakistanis, Kashmiris, and Indians... of course Kashmiris have to have the final say on this topic.

You also have to take into consideration Kargil disrtict (now part of Ladakh). It used to be part of Baltistan (now part of Northern areas) and is Muslim majority.

But I agree with you. Regions like Jammu have already shown they want to be part of India, and we shouldn't care about those regions. No point throwing people out or occupying them.

A regional or district wise plebiscite will solve the conflict for good, and the subcontinent will be transformed.

 

[rajk20002002]

I think the best solution to the problem is India keeps Jammu and Ladakh. Pakistan keeps Northern Areas. Azad Kashmir merges with Kashmir valley and becomes either an independent country or a state administered by Pakistanis, Kashmiris, and Indians... of course Kashmiris have to have the final say on this topic.

Best solution we feel is to leave the borders as they are but allow people to travel freely across the borders. Nothing else is going to work as far as India is concerned. Another independent land locked country in the neighbourhood will bring more problems to India and Pakistan both and there is no way India will let it happen.

RK

 

[jamesy]

I think the best solution to the problem is India keeps Jammu and Ladakh. Pakistan keeps Northern Areas. Azad Kashmir merges with Kashmir valley and becomes either an independent country or a state administered by Pakistanis, Kashmiris, and Indians... of course Kashmiris have to have the final say on this topic.

a very broadminded suggestion, my friend. but I am afraid, it wont be so easy, simply because there is a vast amount of distrust among all the parties involved.
india distrusts pak and vice versa.
ppl of kashmir distrust everyone(including the freedom fighters).

so for now, we should concentrate on improving the ties between all parties.
I would suggest that we try 'hands off' approach. that means, pak doesnt care wat is happening in india or IOK and india doesnt care wat is happening in pak or PaOK.
neither pak nor india try to destabilise each other, and stop'morally' supporting terrorists.
and govern the kashmir in their control properly and give ppl a good life.

if we can do all that for a decade or so, then we can come up with all kinds of possibilities. remember, we are all ppl of sub-continent, pyar mein jaan bhi dete hain aur dushmani bhi jaan bhi lete hain.......

 

[UnitedPak]

Best solution we feel is to leave the borders as they are but allow people to travel freely across the borders. Nothing else is going to work as far as India is concerned. Another independent land locked country in the neighbourhood will bring more problems to India and Pakistan both and there is no way India will let it happen.

RK

Doing nothing is not an option. Far too many people involved in Kashmir valley and Kargil.
Cant say anything about an independent country. Afghanistan is what happens to landlocked countries in Asia. This conflict has to be put behind us, and only a Kashmiri decision can lead to any progress.

Can you please explain to me what the will of the Kashmiri people means to you?
I mean, your regard for their living conditions and wishes is appallingly unreasonable.

 

[roopesh]

a very broadminded suggestion, my friend. but I am afraid, it wont be so easy, simply because there is a vast amount of distrust among all the parties involved. india distrusts pak and vice versa.
ppl of kashmir distrust everyone(including the freedom fighters)....

I welcome your suggestions. Its really nice idea. I can see very few ppl from pakistan wants to come to india. but majority no from india wants to be in pakistan. So giving somemore land to pakistan side is not a problem if it solves the problem
BUT poleticians and govt ready for this? Indian and pakistan foerign policy or wat ever is out of common man reach. Both countries have spent so much money and ppl for this land. I speak for kashmir without even visiting so far and i dont think i will ever ! earlier it used to be dream place for honeymoon...now no one goes..all they go till himachal.
India seems to have a control over rivers and pak wats to get those area. Govts wont really care of ppl (both side). no one is great here.
So my personal feeling is LOC should be international border and lets ppl migrate.

 

[Omar1984]

a very broadminded suggestion, my friend. but I am afraid, it wont be so easy, simply because there is a vast amount of distrust among all the parties involved.
india distrusts pak and vice versa.
ppl of kashmir distrust everyone(including the freedom fighters).

so for now, we should concentrate on improving the ties between all parties.
I would suggest that we try 'hands off' approach. that means, pak doesnt care wat is happening in india or IOK and india doesnt care wat is happening in pak or PaOK.
neither pak nor india try to destabilise each other, and stop'morally' supporting terrorists.
and govern the kashmir in their control properly and give ppl a good life.

if we can do all that for a decade or so, then we can come up with all kinds of possibilities. remember, we are all ppl of sub-continent, pyar mein jaan bhi dete hain aur dushmani bhi jaan bhi lete hain.......

Its impossible for Pakistan to not care whats happening in Indian Occupied Kashmir, especially when Indians are building dams to block the water from naturally flowing through the Indus River into Pakistan.

There is a lot of mistrust thats why Kashmiris themselves should be in full control over their resources, and let the river flow as the Creator made it.

 

[rajk20002002]

Doing nothing is not an option. Far too many people involved in Kashmir valley and Kargil.
Cant say anything about an independent country. Afghanistan is what happens to landlocked countries in Asia. This conflict has to be put behind us, and only a Kashmiri decision can lead to any progress.

Can you please explain to me what the will of the Kashmiri people means to you?
I mean, your regard for their living conditions and wishes is appallingly unreasonable.

We can not put 1.2 billion people on flame just to know the will of few million people. We have to have larger perspective and not just Kashmir valley. We have seen the horors of 1947. Kashmir people run their own government already. With open borders they can travel wherever they wish.

RK