Pak not weak to allow India to take Azad Kashmir: Farooq Abdullah :

[zip]

I completely agree you on "Countries can't operate by dancing to everyone's tune" in case a few people starting their own agenda opposing rest of people in region - however when whole bunch of people in given region turn to rebellion this means they're no longer your part and nothing gives you right to own them as you wouldn't accept anyone else's occupation upon you. Pakistan have set the example giving up the claim on Junagardh, even by surrendering in East Pakistan. However, in Bangladesh, Pakistan underestimated the level of rebellion like you're underestimating yours - like most of Pakistanis I personally believe Pakistan should have given them independence in coming years after partition - we delayed it thinking we're protecting our people but they were not our people after all and caused us all that embarrassment.


I don't know what rat hole you live in but only attraction of nukes is their ability of mass destruction and they don't need precision to hit the target - they just explode and cause mass destruction in their affect radius - one meter off wouldn't matter to me. Also, didn't your mama tell you about something called "second strike"?

You tried to keep half of your population against their wish at expense of millions of life why do you lecture us about our less than 1% population ??

 

[Maarkhoor]

Never heard of the Chenab formula in my life. Any references please? Other than the memoirs of a Pakistani observer?

What Chenab Formula!
By reader on January 16, 2014No Comment
PG RASOOL

This year started with some substantial claims by India and Pakistan on the settlement of Kashmir issue. Though no details were made public but whatever was divulged amount to `revelations’. For example, the Indian Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh at a press conference in New Delhi said on January 3,2014 that he tried to improve relations with all neighbhours to the best of his ability and on one time it appeared that important breakthrough was in sight. However, he said, even in Pakistan for example that General Parvez Musharaf (former President) had to make way for a different setup. The Indian Prime Minister claimed that Kashmir issue was “ almost arrived at” between India and Pakistan. But the Prime minister did not spell any contours of the “almost arrived at ” solution. Next day, BJP made much of the claim and insisted the PM to divulge the details. However, nothing was said. Similar claims have been made by Pervez Musharaf earlier. This at least leads credence to the powerful speculations that both the countries have been trying hard to end the Kashmir headache by arriving at some honorable solutions.

The Nawaz Sharief seems much interested in improvement of relations with New Delhi. In fact the improvement of relations with India is one of the `cherished goals’ of foreign policy of Islamabad. The improved relations mean breakthrough on the issues of Siachen, Sir Creek and Kashmir. But till date nothing has come out. The seriousness of Pakistan can be gauged from the fact that Sartaj Aziz, former Foreign Mister, is now advisor to the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharief. Aziz is very influential and the one who is double minded on friendly relations with India. He pursues his agenda with all seriousness. And another most important figure in the issue is Shehryar Khan, former foreign secretary, appointed as the point man for back channel talks. Sartaj Aziz claimed that back channel talks are continuing and shall continue after elections in India to expect any major headway. However, on January 7, Shehryar Khan divulged a bit of very sensational details regarding the Kashmir solution which probably India and Pakistan have had “arrived at” but not announced. Khan said that twice Kashmir issue was very near to solution, one during Valpayee’s tenure and later during Musharaf’s period. Khan, wrongly attributes the solution as the Chenab Formulae because he claims that both the countries were ready for give and take of territory which would leave Srinagar within Indian control and Pakistan was to get some territory west of Chenab and India some territory in the eastern sector. This is not Chenab formulae. In Chenab formulae river Chenab is considered as the permanent border. Any such solution envisages loss of territory on the Indian part with minor border adjustments. Hence when Shehryar Khan claims that Pakistan is persuing a solution which shall leave Srinagar, rather Kashmir valley in Indian hands, this really is no solution or no Chenab formula. This is not even General Mushraf’s 4-point formula which he envisaged as interim solution to arrive at a final solution in better times in future.

The fact is that the statements amounting to some kind of revelations on by Dr. Manmohan Singh, Sartaj Aziz and Shehryar Khan should have raised eyebrows in the political circles, particularly in the resistance camp in Kashmir. It was a time to engage with these statements and the politics behind them. Only Syed Ali Shah Geelani warned Pakistan on the statement of Shehryar Khan. But warning Pakistan from Islamabad’s point of interest is no strength to oppose any so-called sellout. Hollow threats do not amount to any genuine political engagement. At least this much should be convincing that Pakistan has not put Kashmir at the backburner. It wants to get rid of the headache and in the process actually offers substantial advantages to India. But, New Delhi seems uninterested. For all those who fear any sell out the only consolation is that Indian state is a failure in diplomacy. Even when neighbours offer it advantages, New Delhi does not accept. All through the past sixty years no meaningful treaty was signed with Pakistan, China, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. India thinks it below her dignity to sign pacts with smaller neighbours and even with China it is ready to lose territory continuously but never to agree on some border agreement. This is case of Pakistan all the issues at stake: Siachen, Sir Creek and Kashmir, Islamabad offers to accept. At the end of the day, any solution with Pakistan amounts to sell-out and detrimental to the status of the most powerful country of South Asia.
Hence, it could be safely presumed that “almost arrived at” even if to larger Indian advantage shall never be “arrived at” given the psychology and history of Indian state. This merely reflects the readiness of Islamabad to give away and stay free.

It is highly unlikely that there could be any pro-active and creative political response to the back channel diplomacy of India and Pakistan from Kashmir’s political groups. Their mantra is more vertical division among themselves and wistfulness to get included in “talks”. Otherwise indications are enough to get politically alarmed and conscious.

 

[countryman]

You tried to keep half of your population against their wish at expense of millions of life why do you lecture us about our less than 1% population ??

Hmm, against their wish? Do you know any history at all? I would say Pakistan didn't keep them against their will even for a year - even risked the lives of its 90000 soldiers when it realized they're not worth dying for. For most years, it was about autonomy not independence but when Pakistan offered them autonomy it was too late and your rawamy was dreaming of ruling whole Pakistan and wouldn't settle for just autonomy.

PS: I usually respect good people disregarding where they're but I can foresee where our conversation is going, so, I would just shut up - I don't need to lecture you at all. Sometimes, I seriously wish you people continue behaving like that.

 

[zip]

Hmm, against their wish? Do you know any history at all? I would say Pakistan didn't keep them against their will even for a year - even risked the lives of its 90000 soldiers when it realized they're not worth dying for. For most years, it was about autonomy not independence but when Pakistan offered them autonomy it was too late and your rawamy was dreaming of ruling whole Pakistan and wouldn't settle for just autonomy.

I said you tried ..Now don't say you didn't tried to keep your nation intact .. It's natural for any country to keep it's border intact ..It doesn't matter whether enemy is from outside or within ..

 

[CHACHA"G"]

The only thing I can think of you saying the same thing again and again like a broken gramophone record in all your posts is that you are delusional and hell bent on sticking to your position.

I only can say that, unlike you who is emotional and may be young, Pakistani establishment knows the fatality of interfering in India internal affairs.

You and your delusions.............. lamo , I don't feel pity for you and your kind.......... Stop killing Innocent Kashmiris........... And get ready for what is coming....... And check MAP again with history , British made Indian.
And you don't have any idea about fatality that you will face............. Worry about your country,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Kashmir is a lost case for you worry about few other parts.......

 

[countryman]

I said you tried ..Now don't say you didn't tried to keep your nation intact .. It's natural for any country to keep it's border intact ..It doesn't matter whether enemy is from outside or within ..

Hmm, I never said we didn't try but we gave up as long as we came to know the people we're dying are not our people - but we did try. Every nation would do that. But question is Kashmir is land occupied by India, it was not even to part of India. Whole world agrees on its status but lust of land have blinded most among you and as it feels you people will kill even whole Kashmir for their land.

Anyway, let's wrap it up before our conversation turns clumsy.

 

[Hellraiser007]

I thought Pakistan will do Gazwa e Hind and capture Delhi ?

Miracles of Time !

There is never a strategic balance in Indian sub continent between superior India and Pakistan. We just got weak leadership in the past.

 

[zip]

Hmm, I never said we didn't try but we gave up as long as we came to know the people we're dying are not our people - but we did try. Every nation would do that. But question is Kashmir is land occupied by India, it was not even to part of India. Whole world agrees on its status but lust of land have blinded most among you and as it feels you people will kill even whole Kashmir for their land.

Anyway, let's wrap it up before our conversation turns clumsy.

Truth is everyone has a reason to hold a position or to leave it and they can forgive themselves easily but can't do the same for others .. Conflicts are natural outcome ..So let's close this discussion without claiming any moral high ground..

 

[Areesh]

AJK and IOK both have no future with India. So Mr Farooq is 50% right. Would take some time but he would get to the truth about IOK too.

 

[ashok321]

BJPians filed a case against him in Bihar:

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...take-Azad Kashmir-says-farooq-abdullah/304396

Anybody in India can harass anybody by filing flimsy cases from 3000 KMs away.

 

[khansaheeb]

Finally some sense.....Pakistan Administered Kashmir will belong to Pakistan for the next 1000 years,,,Indian administered Kashmir will remain with India for the next 1000 years....Jammu should be its own state, Ladakh should be its own state ..both fully integrated into India...and Kashmir Valley should retain special status for the forseeable future

Road between Manali and Leh should be super widened so that Ladakh is always reachable from Himachal.....perhaps train services till Ladakh too ..if possible Bullet trains

Farooq Abdullah is deeply mistaken. IOK will be free one day from Indian occupation no matter who says what. There is no price for freedom and the Kashmiris have shown they will pay the ultimate price as martyrs for their cause.

 

[Assasin Ezio]

There is no other option for them, remember Kargil they resort to beg USA for ceasefire and ullo ka patha N.S agreed.
Gen spent whole night 28 KMs inside Indian held territory.

That's nothing.
In the mid 90s, we captured the massive Anzbari feature on the Pakistani side of LoC in Kanzalwan sector when your Kayani was sector commander and returned it only after Pakistan accepted our terms in the area.
Later we captured the same feature permanently during the Kargil War.

We got Peak 5353. It wasn't a complete loss as you make it out to be.

Pakistan never accepted defeat in the Kargil standoff.

And we got Peak 5310 on the Pakistani side of LoC and captured Peak 5770 from Pakistan Army which was highest peak in Siachen sector.

 

[MultaniGuy]

That's nothing.
In the mid 90s, we captured the massive Anzbari feature on the Pakistani side of LoC in Kanzalwan sector when your Kayani was sector commander and returned it only after Pakistan accepted our terms in the area.
Later we captured the same feature permanently during the Kargil War.


And we got Peak 5310 on the Pakistani side of LoC and captured Peak 5770 from Pakistan Army which was highest peak in Siachen sector.

Stop trolling.

India never got any Pakistani peaks during the Kargil war. show me the proof.

 

[Assasin Ezio]

Stop trolling.

India never got any Pakistani peaks during the Kargil war. show me the proof.

Capture of Anzabari feature was confirmed by Peter Lavoy
https://books.google.co.in/books?id...HzAA#v=onepage&q=anzbari feature 1992&f=false

The very first journalist to report on Point 5353 also reported the capture of Point 5310 as a retaliation.

In one such operation on April 8, a company of the 14 Sikh Regiment occupied point 5310, an unheld peak roughly one kilometre air distance on the Pakistan side of the LoC. Subedar Bhatnam Singh and one soldier were killed in an avalanche during the opera tion.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2000/08/11/stories/14115502.htm

As for Point 5770:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...ost-pt-5770-by-rajput-regt-in-siachen.434023/

 

[MultaniGuy]

Capture of Anzabari feature was confirmed by Peter Lavoy
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=-vifpWqV2WYC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=anzbari+feature+1992&source=bl&ots=eqk7w8j9mK&sig=bICM79xFUqZhenzzwNAZai9l1oM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI1v6BlsLXAhUCTbwKHVyTBwMQ6AEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=anzbari feature 1992&f=false

The very first journalist to report on Point 5353 also reported the capture of Point 5310 as a retaliation.



http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2000/08/11/stories/14115502.htm

As for Point 5770:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...ost-pt-5770-by-rajput-regt-in-siachen.434023/

Sorry but I do not have time for your nonsense.

Go dump your feces somewhere else.

We know you are wrong.

Pakistan got Point 5353, Indians did not get anything. It is India which lost out.