PAK Navy successfully intercepts Indian Submarine, foils intrusion

[Rashid Mahmood]

What is acoustic of a submarine?? my understanding is that each ship has its own specific Acoustic noise, and if a submarine give away its acoustic, then its done.
Am i correct? ? or is there something more to it?

Yes.

• Machinery noise: noise generated by a ship's engines, propeller shafts, fuel pumps, air conditioning systems, etc.
• Cavitation noise: noise generated by the creation of gas bubbles by the turning of a ship's propellers.
• Hydrodynamic noise: noise generated by the movement of water displaced by the hull of a moving vessel.

All these emissions depend on a hull's dimensions, the installed machinery and ship's displacement. Therefore, different ship classes will have different combinations of acoustic signals that together form a unique signature.

Submarines are prowlers of the deep, and are desigined as such to remain

What i get from your post is that one submarine (INS Kalvari) has compromised the following five submarines (Scorpene) even before they could be inducted into service.

1. INS Khanderi
2. INS Karanj
3. INS Vela
4. INS Vagir
5. INS Vagsheer

The first two are on sea trails, while the rest three are under construction. Their signatures should be matching if not exact.

IN sent out its best submarine (non nulcear), since its sister service IAF had sent the Mig-21 (the most outdated aircraft in service) however the result was not favorable for both services. This basically means that whatever Indian Military is throwing at Pakistan, whether its the most modern in inventory or or the most obsolete, is either being detected or destroyed. The IA is already engaging PA on LOC and other sectors adjacent to LOC. The India Media front takes a hit everyday and changes narratives. This is what the frustration of covering up lies and trying fruitlessly to malign Pakistan's image has brought India to ! The next expected move was NDS and TTP services springing into action from Afghanistan, which has been detected by intel wings of Pakistan already. Its like Pakistan and its Military are always one step ahead of the game.

The Biggest Planner sitting atop the universe is exposing and thwarting the plans of enemies of Pakistan.

Yes, they have given away something which is pretty difficult to acquire.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes, they have given away something which is pretty difficult to acquire.

Hi,

As a navy intel officer---my question would be " sir---why have they given it away "---.

As a navy submarine commander---my question would be " why have they given it away "---.

As an anti submarine fleet commander---my question would be " why has not someone found out why they have given it away --- I need to find out right now---why have they given that secret to us---for what purpose---get me an answer even if you have to roll some heads---now get going---".

In front of the Navy Admiral---" Sir---we have the signature of their sub---but I do not understand it why they have given us this information---.I have the intel officers digging into it---as soon as I have more information---I will update you---".

Admiral---" I think this thing stinks---. I want you to dig deeper ---and go as far as you need to---. Something like this just does not happen like that---".

" Was there someone coming to our side and was defecting with his submarine---. Did our action of locating it and announcing its presence was premature---did we do something that we were not supposed to do---and kept and waited for a longer period of time time to see what action the sub would take---"?

" I am having a bad feeling about it---I believe that we were onto something very big in the making---and our immature actions may have caused us to make the enemy panic---keep your eyes and ears open---dig deeper into it and let me know what you learn---thank you---".

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

As a navy intel officer---my question would be " sir---why have they given it away "---.

As a navy submarine commander---my question would be " why have they given it away "---.

As an anti submarine fleet commander---my question would be " why has not someone found out why they have given it away --- I need to find out right now---why have they given that secret to us---for what purpose---get me an answer even if you have to roll some heads---now get going---".

In front of the Navy Admiral---" Sir---we have the signature of their sub---but I do not understand it why they have given us this information---.I have the intel officers digging into it---as soon as I have more information---I will update you---".

Admiral---" I think this thing stinks---. I want you to dig deeper ---and go as far as you need to---. Something like this just does not happen like that---".

" Was there someone coming to our side and was defecting with his submarine---. Did our action of locating it and announcing its presence was premature---did we do something that we were not supposed to do---and kept and waited for a longer period of time time to see what action the sub would take---"?

" I am having a bad feeling about it---I believe that we were onto something very big in the making---and our immature actions may have caused us to make the enemy panic---keep your eyes and ears open---dig deeper into it and let me know what you learn---thank you---".

There is a saying "If something seems too good to be true, it probably is not true."

What I am trying to say is that there is something else going on here. I think India and Israel are trying to provide 'Distorted information' to Pakistan. How they are manipulating these acoustic signatures, I don't know how. But something very, very strange is going on here. Also, this is the SECOND time this has happened - the first episode was months ago.

Also, many months ago, whole manuals for these Indian Submarines which included information of acoustics and various frequencies got leaked all over the media - Australian newspapers specially posted this information about Scorpene as front page news. If was a very embarrassing episode for DCNS group which is now called the 'Naval Group'.

Can it be that the information that got leaked had the correct signature information on these Submarine, and now Indian is deliberately trying to provide distorted information to confuse Pakistan?

 

[MastanKhan]

There is a saying "If something seems too good to be true, it probably is not true."

What I am trying to say is that there is something else going on here. I think India and Israel are trying to provide 'Distorted information' to Pakistan. How they are manipulating these acoustic signatures, I don't know how. But something very, very strange is going on here. Also, this is the SECOND time this has happened - the first episode was months ago.

Also, many months ago, whole manuals for these Indian Submarines which included information of acoustics and various frequencies got leaked all over the media - Australian newspapers specially posted this information about Scorpene as front page news. If was a very embarrassing episode for DCNS group which is now called the 'Naval Group'.

Can it be that the information that got leaked had the correct signature information on these Submarine, and now Indian is deliberately trying to provide distorted information to confuse Pakistan?

Hi,

Fighter aircraft giving away their position is no big deal---but if a scorpene type submarine gives away its position---it is either a deception of astronomical proportions---or what---.

Why would this sub be on the surface---showing its presence---and why would pakistan's navy acknowledge its presence and make it go away---.

Why would they not let it come as much closer as it possibly could---.

 

[mshan44]

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Hi,

As a navy intel officer---my question would be " sir---why have they given it away "---.

As a navy submarine commander---my question would be " why have they given it away "---.

As an anti submarine fleet commander---my question would be " why has not someone found out why they have given it away --- I need to find out right now---why have they given that secret to us---for what purpose---get me an answer even if you have to roll some heads---now get going---".

In front of the Navy Admiral---" Sir---we have the signature of their sub---but I do not understand it why they have given us this information---.I have the intel officers digging into it---as soon as I have more information---I will update you---".

Admiral---" I think this thing stinks---. I want you to dig deeper ---and go as far as you need to---. Something like this just does not happen like that---".

" Was there someone coming to our side and was defecting with his submarine---. Did our action of locating it and announcing its presence was premature---did we do something that we were not supposed to do---and kept and waited for a longer period of time time to see what action the sub would take---"?

" I am having a bad feeling about it---I believe that we were onto something very big in the making---and our immature actions may have caused us to make the enemy panic---keep your eyes and ears open---dig deeper into it and let me know what you learn---thank you---".

The game of cat & mouse has been played in sea's between subs and sub hunters since the development of the submarine.
During the cold war, the US & USSR were actively playing this game.

Submarines are prowlers of the deep, and are designed to remain undetected in order to complete their mission.

We during peace time, continuously conduct ASW exercises with our own subs in every possible scenario. These exercises benefit both the platforms.

Since 1964, PN has been operating submarines and now after 50+ years, we have a well trained submarine force which has proven it's worth in 1971, by sinking an enemy vessel. These doctrines are developed over a long period of time and produces qualified crews who are well conversant with submarine operations.

PN has also been up against its adversary since the start and used the Ghazi in 1965 in an aggressive posture.

Now coming to your specific concern,

Submarines are used in peace time to gather intel, track & monitor shipping lanes/routes, monitor adversaries naval movements, stay hidden in strategic choke points and many more, but they do all this while remain invisible.

As soon as it is detected, it loses all it's initiative and has to go back.

In this case, the sub was detected and localized (which is done while it is submerged and not on PD).
Then the procedure is adopted to let the sub know, that is has been localized & identified and is forced to come to PD or surface.

The video which was released was made by the IR camera, after the sub came to PD.

If they were defecting, then they would have made it obvious just by giving a call on the UHF guard frequency, and we would have guided it to our nearest port. So it's not the case.

We over the years, have tracked and have a pretty clear understanding of how our enemy operates, the area where they operate and the depths they operate.

This is not the first time, we have localized our enemy sub, it has been done so many times in the past. I myself have tracked one of their subs during one of our exercises many years ago.

This is the first time the IN is operating french submarines, and were probably testing it's capability and limits.

PN will and is looking into this matter deeply and from all angles, as it is a matter of survival.
Rest assured, we have our eyes & ears open.

 

[CodeforFood]

LOL, why would anyone add more sound to a weapon which is supposed to be quite?
It's like saying adding a radar reflector on F22 so it is identified as something other than F22, what difference does that make, once you are detected you are dead.

It does sound funny isn't it, but what I am trying to say is that it is possible to manipulate acoustics...

The game of cat & mouse has been played in sea's between subs and sub hunters since the development of the submarine.
During the cold war, the US & USSR were actively playing this game.

Submarines are prowlers of the deep, and are designed to remain undetected in order to complete their mission.

We during peace time, continuously conduct ASW exercises with our own subs in every possible scenario. These exercises benefit both the platforms.

Since 1964, PN has been operating submarines and now after 50+ years, we have a well trained submarine force which has proven it's worth in 1971, by sinking an enemy vessel. These doctrines are developed over a long period of time and produces qualified crews who are well conversant with submarine operations.

PN has also been up against its adversary since the start and used the Ghazi in 1965 in an aggressive posture.

Now coming to your specific concern,

Submarines are used in peace time to gather intel, track & monitor shipping lanes/routes, monitor adversaries naval movements, stay hidden in strategic choke points and many more, but they do all this while remain invisible.

As soon as it is detected, it loses all it's initiative and has to go back.

In this case, the sub was detected and localized (which is done while it is submerged and not on PD).
Then the procedure is adopted to let the sub know, that is has been localized & identified and is forced to come to PD or surface.

The video which was released was made by the IR camera, after the sub came to PD.

If they were defecting, then they would have made it obvious just by giving a call on the UHF guard frequency, and we would have guided it to our nearest port. So it's not the case.

We over the years, have tracked and have a pretty clear understanding of how our enemy operates, the area where they operate and the depths they operate.

This is not the first time, we have localized our enemy sub, it has been done so many times in the past. I myself have tracked one of their subs during one of our exercises many years ago.

This is the first time the IN is operating french submarines, and were probably testing it's capability and limits.

PN will and is looking into this matter deeply and from all angles, as it is a matter of survival.
Rest assured, we have our eyes & ears open.

That is definitely comforting to know. We are confident that the security of Pakistan is in good and rational hands. I hope that they would not be using these signatures to distract and open holes in the network...

 

[MastanKhan]

The game of cat & mouse has been played in sea's between subs and sub hunters since the development of the submarine.
During the cold war, the US & USSR were actively playing this game.

Submarines are prowlers of the deep, and are designed to remain undetected in order to complete their mission.

We during peace time, continuously conduct ASW exercises with our own subs in every possible scenario. These exercises benefit both the platforms.

Since 1964, PN has been operating submarines and now after 50+ years, we have a well trained submarine force which has proven it's worth in 1971, by sinking an enemy vessel. These doctrines are developed over a long period of time and produces qualified crews who are well conversant with submarine operations.

PN has also been up against its adversary since the start and used the Ghazi in 1965 in an aggressive posture.

Now coming to your specific concern,

Submarines are used in peace time to gather intel, track & monitor shipping lanes/routes, monitor adversaries naval movements, stay hidden in strategic choke points and many more, but they do all this while remain invisible.

As soon as it is detected, it loses all it's initiative and has to go back.

In this case, the sub was detected and localized (which is done while it is submerged and not on PD).
Then the procedure is adopted to let the sub know, that is has been localized & identified and is forced to come to PD or surface.

The video which was released was made by the IR camera, after the sub came to PD.

If they were defecting, then they would have made it obvious just by giving a call on the UHF guard frequency, and we would have guided it to our nearest port. So it's not the case.

We over the years, have tracked and have a pretty clear understanding of how our enemy operates, the area where they operate and the depths they operate.

This is not the first time, we have localized our enemy sub, it has been done so many times in the past. I myself have tracked one of their subs during one of our exercises many years ago.

This is the first time the IN is operating french submarines, and were probably testing it's capability and limits.

PN will and is looking into this matter deeply and from all angles, as it is a matter of survival.
Rest assured, we have our eyes & ears open.

Hi,

There was no reason to let the sub know that it was compromised---. It should have been allowed to get as close inside of the pakistani waters as it could---.

Acknowledging its presence and letting the sub know that it has been found was showing cowardice by the pak navy---.

Pak navy cannot rest on its past laurels---. The Ghazi commander was an extremely brave and tactical commander---but did not have the ballz to take opportunity of the presence of indian air craft carrier and let it escape even though pak military was war with india in kashmir.

Thast is why I keep saying---there was no single officer of the caliber of the then Col Sharon in pak military---who could tear the enemy apart.

Why I keep saying this---pakistani boys should read books about Col Sharon during his actions against the 1973 war---.

He single handedly smashed thru the egyptian line---crossed the suez canal and decimated the egyptian army---. He did not stop even after cease fire was announced---he was threatened by his superiors for court martial and execution---but he told the seniors to screw themselves and brought the egyptian military to its knees---. The egyptians were begging for peace and none was found---.

Officers like Sharon change the history of their nation---.

The indian sub should have been allowed to come as close as it could and them taken out---.

After the Atlantique incidence---this is again an act of treason against the state of pakistan by its naval forces---.

First the Paf acted treasonous when they let the indian aircraft escape in the first encounter---and if it was not for the public outcry---Paf would have done nothing---.

And now the Pak navy---it has committed an act of treason---.

This was not the time to play games--oh---hello---hi---you are where you are not supposed to be---go back now---.

if the inaidans had the chance---they would have decimated our Augusta submarine---.

 

[CodeforFood]

It does sound funny isn't it, but what I am trying to say is that it is possible to manipulate acoustics...


That is definitely comforting to know. We are confident that the security of Pakistan is in good and rational hands

Hi,

There was no reason to let the sub know that it was compromised---. It should have been allowed to get as close inside of the pakistani waters as it could---.

Acknowledging its presence and letting the sub know that it has been found was showing cowardice by the pak navy---.

Pak navy cannot rest on its past laurels---. The Ghazi commander was an extremely brave and tactical commander---but did not have the ballz to take opportunity of the presence of indian air craft carrier and let it escape even though pak military was war with india in kashmir.

Thast is why I keep saying---there was no single officer of the caliber of the then Col Sharon in pak military---who could tear the enemy apart.

Why I keep saying this---pakistani boys should read books about Col Sharon during his actions against the 1973 war---.

He single handedly smashed thru the egyptian line---crossed the suexz canal and deciated the egyptian army---. He did not stop even after cease fire was announced---he was threatened by his superiors for court martial and execution---but he thold the seniors to screw themselves and brought the egyptian military to its knees---. The egyptians were begging for and nonewas found---.

Officers like Sharon change the history of their nation---.

The indian sub should have been allowed to come as close as it could and them taken out---.

After the Atlantique incidence---this is again an act of treason against the state of pakistan by its naval forces---.

First the Paf acted treasonous when they let the indian aircraft escape in the first encounter---and if it was not for the public outcry---Paf would have done nothing---.

And now the Pak navy---it has committed an act of treason---.

This was not the time to play games--oh---hello---hi---you are where you are not supposed to be---go back now---.

if the inaidans had the chance---they would have decimated our Augusta submarine---.

I would doubt that they would have come in all the way into our territorial waters, but I could be wrong.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Hi,

There was no reason to let the sub know that it was compromised---. It should have been allowed to get as close inside of the pakistani waters as it could---.

Acknowledging its presence and letting the sub know that it has been found was showing cowardice by the pak navy---.

Pak navy cannot rest on its past laurels---. The Ghazi commander was an extremely brave and tactical commander---but did not have the ballz to take opportunity of the presence of indian air craft carrier and let it escape even though pak military was war with india in kashmir.

Thast is why I keep saying---there was no single officer of the caliber of the then Col Sharon in pak military---who could tear the enemy apart.

Why I keep saying this---pakistani boys should read books about Col Sharon during his actions against the 1973 war---.

He single handedly smashed thru the egyptian line---crossed the suexz canal and deciated the egyptian army---. He did not stop even after cease fire was announced---he was threatened by his superiors for court martial and execution---but he thold the seniors to screw themselves and brought the egyptian military to its knees---. The egyptians were begging for and nonewas found---.

Officers like Sharon change the history of their nation---.

The indian sub should have been allowed to come as close as it could and them taken out---.

After the Atlantique incidence---this is again an act of treason against the state of pakistan by its naval forces---.

First the Paf acted treasonous when they let the indian aircraft escape in the first encounter---and if it was not for the public outcry---Paf would have done nothing---.

And now the Pak navy---it has committed an act of treason---.

This was not the time to play games--oh---hello---hi---you are where you are not supposed to be---go back now---.

if the inaidans had the chance---they would have decimated our Augusta submarine---.

Thanks.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

Fighter aircraft giving away their position is no big deal---but if a scorpene type submarine gives away its position---it is either a deception of astronomical proportions---or what---.

Why would this sub be on the surface---showing its presence---and why would pakistan's navy acknowledge its presence and make it go away---.

Why would they not let it come as much closer as it possibly could---.

My take is the IN officers are deliberately providing it to PN to avoid an all out war!!! Try to understand it from those officers point of views!! They might have figured out that it is Modi’s war, on behalf of foreigners, other than theirs!!! They know it might lead to a nuclear exchange which would finish not only their lives but also of their loved ones especially kids!!! And, the entire India they know!!! Which family men would ever want that?????

Remember the dielemma faced by the XO of the Boomer in the movie The Crimson Tide...

 

[Cornered Tiger]

Atlantic? I heard Atlantic decommissioned long time ago. Are they still in serve? @Rashid Mahmood

 

[MastanKhan]

My take is the IN officers are deliberately providing it to PN to avoid an all out war!!! Try to understand it from those officers point of views!! They might have figured out that it is Modi’s war, on behalf of foreigners, other than theirs!!! They know it might lead to a nuclear exchange which would finish not only their lives but also of their loved ones especially kids!!! And, the entire India they know!!! Which family men would ever want that?????

Remember the dielemma faced by the XO of the Boomer in the movie The Crimson Tide...

Hi,

I firmly believe that sub surfaced so that it could be found---and pak navy attack it---.

And there was another sub in a different location that was ready to leash its weapons once the attack occured on the surfaced sub---.

And as that sub was on the surface at time of attack---the crew would comparatively---easily escape before the sub sank---.

The bottomline is that a Scorpene does not stay on the surface in or around enemy waters sailing towards the enemy---regardless it being a night time---.

 

[b4umsf]

Kashmir Issue must resolve now

 

[Thorough Pro]

Don't think too much.

When ALLAH Wants to help someone, things stop making sense and otherwise quite accomplished professionals just do unbelievable blunders. Have faith and Thank ALLAH.

Hi,

As a navy intel officer---my question would be " sir---why have they given it away "---.

As a navy submarine commander---my question would be " why have they given it away "---.

As an anti submarine fleet commander---my question would be " why has not someone found out why they have given it away --- I need to find out right now---why have they given that secret to us---for what purpose---get me an answer even if you have to roll some heads---now get going---".

In front of the Navy Admiral---" Sir---we have the signature of their sub---but I do not understand it why they have given us this information---.I have the intel officers digging into it---as soon as I have more information---I will update you---".

Admiral---" I think this thing stinks---. I want you to dig deeper ---and go as far as you need to---. Something like this just does not happen like that---".

" Was there someone coming to our side and was defecting with his submarine---. Did our action of locating it and announcing its presence was premature---did we do something that we were not supposed to do---and kept and waited for a longer period of time time to see what action the sub would take---"?

" I am having a bad feeling about it---I believe that we were onto something very big in the making---and our immature actions may have caused us to make the enemy panic---keep your eyes and ears open---dig deeper into it and let me know what you learn---thank you---".

That would be a real stupid war tactics / strategy to use, Indians are stupid, but not that much.

Hi,

I firmly believe that sub surfaced so that it could be found---and pak navy attack it---.

And there was another sub in a different location that was ready to leash its weapons once the attack occured on the surfaced sub---.

And as that sub was on the surface at time of attack---the crew would comparatively---easily escape before the sub sank---.

The bottomline is that a Scorpene does not stay on the surface in or around enemy waters sailing towards the enemy---regardless it being a night time---.