Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[meena24]

Is that what Indians consider as counter attack ? ... How many Pakistani generals or soldiers did you manage to kill in GHQ attack ? for the sake of debate accepting that you did that ... Except for the terrorist killed

The damage of Mehran base attack was repaired and Pakistan beefed up security at bases around the country so no luck there too ... The replacement of P3C Orion arrived just this year ... again accepting for the sake of discussion you were involved in that

Shall i start now with Indian consulate attack and other ones in J&K ?

P-3 orion was not offered to you on a free basis, We have also increased security along our coast, I also very well remember how your ISI headquarters was blasted 3 times, Regarding J&K one also I am ready.

I have quoted , what you asked for ... Why blame me ?

I see no denial that Pakistan didn't gain 5 strategic peaks from the general ... Silence on the matter means what then ?

Sorry , there's no bluff ... The sources I quoted mentioned that within the IA , it is accepted that Pakistan still occupies " some " peaks from the Kargil War ...

rediff.com: The Rediff Interview/ General Ved Prakash Malik (retd)

 

[Secur]

P-3 orion was not offered to you on a free basis, We have also increased security along our coast, I also very well remember how your ISI headquarters was blasted 3 times, Regarding J&K one also I am ready.

Of course , there's no such thing as free lunch ... What were you expecting ? Hours before , a tunnel was discovered in Jammu region from Pakistan ... Really ? When did that happen ? Blasted 3 times ? ...

P.S You were also ready regarding the 5 peaks claim by me

 

[meena24]

If you can take your general silence as a point that you have captured 4 peaks, Our army chief has also refuted the claim that point 5353 was held by us.

 

[Secur]

rediff.com: The Rediff Interview/ General Ved Prakash Malik (retd)

Let me help you ...

The Hindu : National : Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

By Praveen Swami

NEW DELHI, JUNE 29 . Indian soldiers had attempted to capture Point 5353, a strategically-important peak in the Dras sector, in the first days of the Kargil war. New evidence that such an assault took place blows apart contradictory claims by the former Defence Minister, George Fernandes, and top military officials that the feature does not lie on the Indian side of the Line of Control.

An investigation by The Hindu has gained access to orders issued to Major Navneet Mehra of the 16 Grenadiers Regiment, ordering him to lead an assault on Point 5353, so named for its altitude in metres. It is the highest feature in the Dras sector, and allows the Pakistani troops to observe National Highway 1A, as well as an alternative Dras-Kargil route that is now under construction.

Major Mehra's men were asked to evict the Pakistani intruders on Point 5353 by 6 a.m. on May 18, 1999. The officer's plan was to set up three fire bases along the base of the peak to support the infantry assault by two groups.

Although backed by some artillery, both groups faced a difficult climb, under direct fire from both the Pakistani positions on Point 5353 and Point 5165.

However, Major Mehra's despatches note, his commanding officer, Col. Pushpinder Oberoi, gave specific orders "to go for it at any cost." Col. Oberoi's troops failed to execute his instructions. Ill-equipped for the extreme cold, and not properly acclimatised to the altitude, the troops withdrew after suffering 13 casualties. The attack was finally called off at 3 a.m. on May 19, 1999.

After news broke that the Pakistani troops occupied Point 5353, the Indian Army denied that the peak had ever been held by India, or, indeed, was on its side of the LoC. A press release issued on August 11, 2000, asserted that the "point was never under our control either before or after Operation Vijay in Kargil." Mr. Fernandes seemed to disagree. Asked about the status of Point 5353 at a subsequent press conference, he insisted that "every inch of the land is under our control."

Mr. Fernandes' subsequent statements added to the confusion. Speaking to an audience in Mumbai, he said "Point 5353 is the point over which the LoC goes. Fact is, our troops had never occupied that."

However, on January 1, 2001, the Press Information Bureau issued a photograph of Mr. Fernandes standing on what it claimed was Point 5353. Later, the PIB was forced to sack a junior staffer for "an administrative error."

War-time media reports, based on Army briefings, suggest that further efforts to take the peak were made from July 21, 1999, well after the fighting had officially ended.

 

[meena24]

Of course , there's no such thing as free lunch ... What were you expecting ? Hours before , a tunnel was discovered in Jammu region from Pakistan ... Really ? When did that happen ? Blasted 3 times ? ...

Kaiser Tufail has clearly clarified what you achieved? I never heard any where that silence on a matter is a victory?

Your ISI office was blasted. 3 of its regional offices were targetted.

Let me help you ...

The Hindu : National : Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

By Praveen Swami

NEW DELHI, JUNE 29 . Indian soldiers had attempted to capture Point 5353, a strategically-important peak in the Dras sector, in the first days of the Kargil war. New evidence that such an assault took place blows apart contradictory claims by the former Defence Minister, George Fernandes, and top military officials that the feature does not lie on the Indian side of the Line of Control.

An investigation by The Hindu has gained access to orders issued to Major Navneet Mehra of the 16 Grenadiers Regiment, ordering him to lead an assault on Point 5353, so named for its altitude in metres. It is the highest feature in the Dras sector, and allows the Pakistani troops to observe National Highway 1A, as well as an alternative Dras-Kargil route that is now under construction.

Major Mehra's men were asked to evict the Pakistani intruders on Point 5353 by 6 a.m. on May 18, 1999. The officer's plan was to set up three fire bases along the base of the peak to support the infantry assault by two groups.

Although backed by some artillery, both groups faced a difficult climb, under direct fire from both the Pakistani positions on Point 5353 and Point 5165.

However, Major Mehra's despatches note, his commanding officer, Col. Pushpinder Oberoi, gave specific orders "to go for it at any cost." Col. Oberoi's troops failed to execute his instructions. Ill-equipped for the extreme cold, and not properly acclimatised to the altitude, the troops withdrew after suffering 13 casualties. The attack was finally called off at 3 a.m. on May 19, 1999.

After news broke that the Pakistani troops occupied Point 5353, the Indian Army denied that the peak had ever been held by India, or, indeed, was on its side of the LoC. A press release issued on August 11, 2000, asserted that the "point was never under our control either before or after Operation Vijay in Kargil." Mr. Fernandes seemed to disagree. Asked about the status of Point 5353 at a subsequent press conference, he insisted that "every inch of the land is under our control."

Mr. Fernandes' subsequent statements added to the confusion. Speaking to an audience in Mumbai, he said "Point 5353 is the point over which the LoC goes. Fact is, our troops had never occupied that."

However, on January 1, 2001, the Press Information Bureau issued a photograph of Mr. Fernandes standing on what it claimed was Point 5353. Later, the PIB was forced to sack a junior staffer for "an administrative error."

War-time media reports, based on Army briefings, suggest that further efforts to take the peak were made from July 21, 1999, well after the fighting had officially ended.

About Other peaks?

 

[Secur]

If you can take your general silence as a point that you have captured 4 peaks, Our army chief has also refuted the claim that point 5353 was held by us.

The general wasn't asked about the peaks and hence no answer ... Your army cheif's claim is refuted by different Indian sources and from IA within ... What more should I say ?

About Other peaks?

So first IA tries hard to recapture the peak , when it fails , the defense minister and the army cheif say they never occupied it ? Incredible India indeed !

Stop running around in circles , you know well the sources I gave about " your " other peaks ...

 

[meena24]

The general wasn't asked about the peaks and hence no answer ... Your army cheif's claim is refuted by different Indian sources and from IA within ... What more should I say ?

Fact and fiction on Point 5353

The general wasn't asked about the peaks and hence no answer ... Your army cheif's claim is refuted by different Indian sources and from IA within ... What more should I say ?



So first IA tries hard to recapture the peak , when it fails , the defense minister and the army cheif say they never occupied it ? Incredible India indeed !

Stop running around in circles , you know well the sources I gave about " your " other peaks ...

Just like you pakistan claims after failing to recapture siachen, you claim that siachen is not a strategic value.

 

[Secur]

Fact and fiction on Point 5353

Just like you pakistan claims after failing to recapture siachen, you claim that siachen is not a strategic value.

Did you read it thoroughly ?
No one appeared to be in any doubt about just where Point 5353 was during the Kargil war itself. The Press Trust of India (PTI) put out official responses to Pakistan claims that Point 5353 was on its side of the LoC on July 28, 1999. "The maps signed by the Indian and Pakistani DGMOs (Directors General of Military Operations) in 1972 clearly indicate that it belongs to India," the PTI despatch noted. On July 30, a PTI depatch repeated the assertion in a report on fighting around Point 5353: "In this se ctor, Pakistan claims some mountains to be a part of this territory whereas the maps signed between the Directors General of Military Operations in December 1972, are contrary to this claim." India's defence establishment and much of the press have chosen to hide from uncomfortable truth. But the silence does no one any favours, least of all the soldiers who could one day have to pay again with their lives for the failures of the Kargil war.


Siachen was a " no man's land " unlike 5353 ... How do you find both similar ? Ok , remind me what strategic value does it have ? The peak in question can bring accurate fire to the NH1-D and we all know how important supply route it is for you ...

 

[INDIC]

Parliament attacK: General Head Quarters attack
26/11 attack : PNS Mehran attack
It is not necessary that every time we have to retaliate with a conventional Operation,

PS: when thekla alone has mentioned Point 5353 and four other peaks?, why other news papers have ignored to mention the name of other peaks?

Did you notice that Pakistan entered in Kargil, captured 140 peaks and then after losing retain the possession of point 5353 and feeling happy at the feat of having point 5353 on LOC after losing another 140 peaks sacrificing 4000 soldiers.

 

[INDIC]

duplicate post.

 

[Rafi]

The fact is we control strategic posts that can close down a vital national highway to Occupied J&K, the indians tried to take it back on numerous occasions, testifying to it's vital importance.

A few good artillery observers with real time cameras and laser range finders can bring down very accurate fire which will make it suicidal for any convoy's. Very important in any future potential conflict.

 

[Rafi]

The fact is we control strategic posts that can close down a vital national highway to Occupied J&K, the indians tried to take it back on numerous occasions, testifying to it's vital importance.

A few good artillery observers with real time cameras and laser range finders can bring down very accurate fire which will make it suicidal for any convoy's. Very important in any future potential conflict.

 

[meena24]

Did you read it thoroughly ?
No one appeared to be in any doubt about just where Point 5353 was during the Kargil war itself. The Press Trust of India (PTI) put out official responses to Pakistan claims that Point 5353 was on its side of the LoC on July 28, 1999. "The maps signed by the Indian and Pakistani DGMOs (Directors General of Military Operations) in 1972 clearly indicate that it belongs to India," the PTI despatch noted. On July 30, a PTI depatch repeated the assertion in a report on fighting around Point 5353: "In this se ctor, Pakistan claims some mountains to be a part of this territory whereas the maps signed between the Directors General of Military Operations in December 1972, are contrary to this claim." India's defence establishment and much of the press have chosen to hide from uncomfortable truth. But the silence does no one any favours, least of all the soldiers who could one day have to pay again with their lives for the failures of the Kargil war.


Siachen was a " no man's land " unlike 5353 ... How do you find both similar ? Ok , remind me what strategic value does it have ? The peak in question can bring accurate fire to the NH1-D and we all know how important supply route it is for you ...

Strategic Importance of Siachen » Indian Defence Review

Every one knows what is siachen? If it is a no man land, Your army would not tried to recapture it so many times got kicked every time.

 

[Secur]

Did you notice that Pakistan entered in Kargil, captured 140 peaks and then after losing retain the possession of point 5353 and feeling happy at the feat of having point 5353 on LOC after losing another 140 sacrificing 4000 soldiers.

Add 4 peaks to your equation ... Sacrificing 4000 soldiers ? Even neutral sources do not put it at more than 450 on our side ... In what universe ? Do you know the casualties of '65 war on both sides to even believe the claim of 4000 casualties in a low intensity conflict ? :lol

 

[meena24]

Strategic Importance of Siachen » Indian Defence Review

I very well know the strategic importance of siachen, We very well know why your army launched numerous counter attacks to re claim a No man land.