Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[nair]

I guess we should let pakistan celebrate their great victory in kargil... They couldnt do it for past 12 years... Im upset with indians who doesnt allow them celebrate their victory atleast in this forum...... Infact im very happy that pakistani friends are happy with what they achieved in kargil war.. we should encourage them.... if they are satisfied that their objectives are achieved then y are we fighting or arguing with them.. we should be happy that they are happy with point 5353... Im with you my freinds Lets celebrate the victory... ( any way indian govt is debating wether to stop celebrating vijay divas) from next year onwards let pakistan celebrate.... make sure you call Mushraff paji for inaugaration of 1st celebration on kargil... Hadh hogayee yaar!!!!

 

[Rafi]

The amount of firepower we put out, at the advancing indian soldiers was awesome to behold, we could see the poor indian's dropping to their knee's, limbs jerking as the life was squeezed out of them, the .50 caliber was the most impressive - the indian's were virtually vaporized - their bodies disassembled.

We can look at over peak 5353 - and count the convoys - and practice transferring co-ordinates back to our MLRS's and 155mm Arty, and visualize them being torn asunder.

 

[meena24]

The amount of firepower we put out, at the advancing indian soldiers was awesome to behold, we could see the poor indian's dropping to their knee's, limbs jerking as the life was squeezed out of them, the .50 caliber was the most impressive - the indian's were virtually vaporized - their bodies disassembled.

We can look at over peak 5353 - and count the convoys - and practice transferring co-ordinates back to our MLRS's and 155mm Arty, and visualize them being torn asunder.

We also very well remember Pakistan army soldiers crying for air support when our mirage 2000H jets destroyed their logistics depot, Unfortunately nothing came for them as Pakistan F-16s were rusting in their hangars, what a pity?

 

[Vinod2070]

We also very well remember Pakistan army soldiers crying for air support when our mirage 2000H jets destroyed their logistics depot, Unfortunately nothing came for them as Pakistan F-16s were rusting in their hangars, what a pity?

Unfortunately most of the intruders took bullets on their back. Running like cowards and forsaken by those they were supposedly representing. While the one who sent them first begged the PM of his country to beg the USA to save their arse.

And then started claiming that the PM lost on the table what they were winning on the ground (all as per senior Pakistani people in the know of things, including hawks on India). This was not the first time for such claims by them.

Some badbolas may still try to console themselves with imaginary gains. They are good at giving themselves consolation prizes and it works for us.

 

[Mercenary]

Pakistan was created for Muslims, why was it interested in Hindu majority area of Hyderabad.

And why are you so interested in Muslim majority area of Kashmir?

 

[Vinod2070]

Kashmiri Muslims are just 2%-3% of Indian Muslims.

 

[Mercenary]

It is bewildering what a lot of myth and urban legend has grown up around these events, and how unwilling young people - of all nationalities - remain about doing their homework.

I find that these themes recur in cycles. Once one batch is presented the evidence, and gets an involuntary opportunity to mull over it, and stops presenting their original distorted views, another bunch enters the forum and puts forward the same views. I feel like Sisyphus sometimes.

Wrong on two counts. First, he was a sovereign prince, and the state was literally his possession. He was given exactly the same status as 561 others, no more, no less. Why do you find the example of Kashmir worth fighting about, and not that of all the others?

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan as a Muslim majority state as how the partition went. Just because some un-elected Ruler decides which side he will want to join makes it irrelevant. The only reason you are trumpeting his veiw is because he decided to join India over Pakistan. And we know how you guys react if the opposite is true such as Hyderabad.

You are also wrong about the will of the people of Kashmir. The organization that had complete domination over the hearts and
minds of the people of Kashmir was the National Conference. Shortly before independence, a minority faction based in Muzaffarnagar broke away and returned to its old name, and proclaimed that it favoured merger with Pakistan. The original National Conference continued to function in Srinagar and enjoyed the overwhelming support of the people of the vale. Led by the National Conference, the people of the vale resisted the invaders as much as they could, and fully supported Indian operations. Sheikh Abdullah himself has testified to the events of those times, and the reaction of the Kashmiri masses to the sickening loot, rape and murder committed by the invaders.

Ummm....yea ok. So some kind of national poll was done which showed how the people of Kashmir followed their ruler blindly and wanted to join Inida. Please do you have any evidence to back up these claims?

This is why I wish young people, even young people of mature years, would read up on the background.

Hyderabad had never acceded to Pakistan. It had entered into a standstill agreement just like several other states. It was then that communal riots broke out. Razakars under a fanatic leader ran riot and killed scores from the other community. Even the Prime Minister, the Nawab of Chhatri, resigned, unable to cope with the attacks on him. And he was a Muslim!

It was only then, with the situation rapidly going out of control, that India intervened.

And Hyderabad still had not acceded to Pakistan.

Yeah right. Hyderabad agreed to join Pakistan. India being the hypocritical nation that it is, invaded and brutally took over Hyderabad.

Nothing that we didn't do in Kashmir.

India wasn't this savior coming to liberate the people of Hyderabad.

Unfortunately most of the intruders took bullets on their back. Running like cowards and forsaken by those they were supposedly representing. While the one who sent them first begged the PM of his country to beg the USA to save their arse.

And then started claiming that the PM lost on the table what they were winning on the ground (all as per senior Pakistani people in the know of things, including hawks on India). This was not the first time for such claims by them.

Some badbolas may still try to console themselves with imaginary gains. They are good at giving themselves consolation prizes and it works for us.

How exactly were they cowards when they decided to withdraw from Kargil?

Our forces fought bravely in Kargil under overwhelming odds.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[meena24]

We did really try our best with the poor indians, some cried for their mothers as their destroyed bodies expelled their life's blood, to see a grown man cry was the most heart breaking.

Yeah really it is better than some families craving with out seeing the body of their sons.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yeah really it is better than some families craving with out seeing the body of their sons.

I think part of the reason for abandonment was that it was just NLI. 4000 of them were allowed to be blown away like orphans, most with bullets in their back as their body parts were strewn all over and India had to arrange their graves, their own nation won't even do that for them.

I won't expound why.

Samajhane waale samajh gaye.

 

[meena24]

We did really try our best with the poor indians, some cried for their mothers as their destroyed bodies expelled their life's blood, to see a grown man cry was the most heart breaking.


Acta est fabula

Kargil tragedy: Dead soldier

I think it was due to the impact of our Mirage 2000H , We were poor thats why we used Laser guided bombs supplied by Israel to attack your posts, poor pakistanis what to do? Their F-16 flow a few missions that too for a eye wash, Later again they were made to rest in hangar. I knew very well that impact of mirage 2000H along with israeli bombs is still paining them very well. A grown man should think wisely not like your Northern Light infantry soldiers, Who didn't expect Laser guided bombs. Kaiser tufail very well points out many things.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan as a Muslim majority state as how the partition went. Just because some un-elected Ruler decides which side he will want to join makes it irrelevant. The only reason you are trumpeting his veiw is because he decided to join India over Pakistan. And we know how you guys react if the opposite is true such as Hyderabad.

Excuse me, but that was not how partition went.

Four provinces of British India were handed over to Pakistan on the west, one province on the east. As there were substantial minority elements, certain parts of the provinces of Punjab and Bengal were partitioned out, and stayed with the rest of British India.

British India itself was not divided according to communal population. The Muslim parts of UP, Bombay, CP, Bihar and Madras did not go to Pakistan, just to run through the top examples. The new state only consisted of these five provinces, with certain exclusions.

Princely India became free and independent on August 15, 1947. Neither India nor Pakistan had a right to take over any of the princely states on the grounds of communal composition. There was no binding on the princes to take their population's composition into account. Pakistan had no prescriptive right to Kashmir, because Kashmir was not part of British India but an independent state under British suzerainty, which ceased to exist on August 15.

Apart from all that, you consistently overlook the fact that the people of Kashmir rejected Pakistan. The National Conference was the legitimate representative of the Kashmiri people, and the Muslim League was NOT supported in Jammu and Kashmir. Jinnah himself had a very poor impression of the League representative in the Vale, and used abusive language about him.

Even on the grounds of popular will, the popular will was with India, quite apart from the Maharaja's desire.

There was no legitimacy for Pakistan in Kashmir, apart from the support of the feudal Mehtar of Chitral, the mutineers of the Gilgit Scouts and their British officers, and the pillaging tribals. This incidentally is the same mix that rules Pakistan even today, feudals, soldiers beyond the control of the state and tribal looters and robbers striking patriotic poses to justify their barbaric conduct.

Ummm....yea ok. So some kind of national poll was done which showed how the people of Kashmir followed their ruler blindly and wanted to join Inida. Please do you have any evidence to back up these claims?

First, they did not follow their ruler; they followed their political leader. The evidence you want is in the history of the state from 1932 onward, in the history of the struggle for greater popular power against the ruler, a struggle supported by the Congress. As a result, the Muslim League did not have a foothold in Kashmir.

One of the conditions made for accepting the Maharaja's accession to India was that Sheikh Abdullah and the Conference should be brought to power, and the hand-picked unrepresentative government of the Maharaja discarded.

It is remarkable that people comment glibly about Kashmir, but are not aware of these basic facts.

Yeah right. Hyderabad agreed to join Pakistan. India being the hypocritical nation that it is, invaded and brutally took over Hyderabad.

Completely wrong. Check your facts.

The Nizam never agreed to join Pakistan. At the time of Operation Polo, there was still a stand-still agreement in place with Pakistan.

Nothing that we didn't do in Kashmir.

India wasn't this savior coming to liberate the people of Hyderabad.

Sadly,the facts are not in your favour.

 

[Executioner]

Got it.

 

[Rafi]

From the conquered peaks we see the indian's scuttle over their national highway, knowing in their hearts, that should india dare to attack again, a rain of 155mm shells will send them to oblivion. And our MLRS's will vaporize them.

 

[karan.1970]

From the conquered peaks we see the indian's scuttle over their national highway, knowing in their hearts, that should india dare to attack again, a rain of 155mm shells will send them to oblivion. And our MLRS's will vaporize them.

Must have been Pretty idiotic for Pakistani military planner and specially the gang of 4 to have wasted the lives of 4000 military men in trying to hold off the Indian counter attack at 140 posts in Daras Kargil Batalik sector when they could have met all their objectives by just capturing one post..

 

[Rafi]

Must have been Pretty idiotic for Pakistani military planner and specially the gang of 4 to have wasted the lives of 4000 military men in trying to hold off the Indian counter attack at 140 posts in Daras Kargil Batalik sector when they could have met all their objectives by just capturing one post..

Less than 350 my son, and we do hold liberated land.