Pak army new airborne division

[fatman17]

Has Pakistan ever considered the Mi26 Halo for heavy lift?

There is a good article on them in this months AFM and most former Soviet states have them in storage.

one MI-26 was transferred in the early 70s for demo. it crashed in azad kashmir.

 

[blain2]

Slight diversion from the topic but i see we are talking about an air assault division and not an airborne division as the topic of the thread implies. Now, 101st is an airborne division and is commonly called Screaming Eagles. Correct me if i'm wrong but airborne divisions are parachute divisions requiring transport aircrafts whereas air assault divisions have rotary wing heilcopters. In the current situation as we find ourselves today air assault divisions are the need of the hour and such step should be appreciated and supported by US.

Armor thanks for bringing this up. I was trying to clarify the same in post #10.

We are already expanding the "Airborne" capacity on our own with the expansion of the SSG. As you know, these troops are para-dropped via tactical transport or rotary platforms. Static line/HALO/HAHO etc. are usually the means employed by such units (at least in Pakistan this is so) in jumping.

The article as posted in post#1 is definitely concerning raising/increasing the strength of the existing Air Assault Capability. I suspect the title borrows from the US concept in which the term "Airborne" is used for both Para and Air Assault forces even though they are markedly different in composition and equipment yet the formations are designated the same way E.g. 82 Airborne Div which is a Para trained division and then 101 Airborne Div. whose official designation is "101 Airborne Div (Air Assault)".

We need to expand both of these capabilities however in light of the operations against AQ/Taliban, the Air Assault capability would need to be enhanced.

 

[Kasrkin]

Any idea why we have seen close to no SSG airborne or air assualt action in the Tribal Areas blain2? I would have thought the SSG would have been perfect to absorb the bulk of the fighting given the nature of the conflict...

 

[blain2]

Any idea why we have seen close to no SSG airborne or air assualt action in the Tribal Areas blain2? I would have thought the SSG would have been perfect to absorb the bulk of the fighting given the nature of the conflict...

Every time SOTF goes into the tribal areas, its mostly Air Assault action. It makes no sense to do para-jumps in the area. Operators would be all over the place (wherever the wind takes them, not the best place to conduct para landings as the terrain is all uneven etc. etc.)

All the major operations against the Tribals are conducted with SSG's SOTF leading the pack. SSG has been used quite a bit but only in specific operations and not in the form of FC or regular forces used to keep presence in the area.

 

[Kasrkin]

Oh I see, so they don’t operate independently, only as vanguards to larger formations? That would negate their best advantage! The element of surprise and flexibility...get in and get out sort of thing. If an entire Army brigade and associated FC is heading towards a mountain hideout, all the villagers and militants will already know about it.

I was wondering if they are actually put to good use because we see no pictures of them on TV or Newspapers...it’s just the FC or Army regulars sitting in pick-up trucks or firing from bunkers, etc. Besides we also never read in the news papers that "the SSG did this, attacked this, killed this...blew up that" sort of thing like we did in Lal Masjid or when the SSG killed Betullah's Brother in that Chinese hostage operation.

 

[sigatoka]

The raising of an airborne division if true represents a serious misallocation of resources. Such a force would be of marginal use against India in a conflict due to the significant air defense assets that the Indians employ. In the tribal regions it represents a stop-gap measure that prevents the state from what it should be doing, that is improving transportation links in the form of road and rail while pursuing an improvement in armed troop carriers in the ilk of the upgraded BMP-2 that Russia possesses.

Such a force also misses the importance of the gulf region wherein India is rapidly increasing its defense and especially naval exposure. The expansion to the Pakistan marines in addition to modern infantry fighting vehicles would better serve the strategic requirements in relation to the three key issues i.e. the tribal area, India and the gulf.

 

[fatman17]

The raising of an airborne division if true represents a serious misallocation of resources. Such a force would be of marginal use against India in a conflict due to the significant air defense assets that the Indians employ. In the tribal regions it represents a stop-gap measure that prevents the state from what it should be doing, that is improving transportation links in the form of road and rail while pursuing an improvement in armed troop carriers in the ilk of the upgraded BMP-2 that Russia possesses.

Such a force also misses the importance of the gulf region wherein India is rapidly increasing its defense and especially naval exposure. The expansion to the Pakistan marines in addition to modern infantry fighting vehicles would better serve the strategic requirements in relation to the three key issues i.e. the tribal area, India and the gulf.

i am sure u r aware of the terrain in the tribal areas. the IFV and any armoured vehicles can operate mainly on the roads. what would you do whenu want to take out a miltant post in the hills. air-strike and air-assault are the options i would rely on.

 

[Kasrkin]

Also it is not very helpful to make roads and railways in the middle of these mountains when they are likely to get blown up in the first week of operation (if not before while in construction). But I still agree with you, especially about the need for armoured fighting vehicles which would be much use against India and would give our infantry much needed firepower. And about the Marines too, very prudent observations. But air-assault in my opinion is needed in light of the terrain and lighting attack concept.

 

[Quwa]

Even in a war with India, with the situation as is in Afghanistan, Iran, etc, we need Air Assault capability to swiftly deal with possible insurgencies and irregulars coming from the 'back side'.

 

[Kasrkin]

Not only that, airborne forces have great application in conventional wars as well. These days the key to victory is in rapid mobilization and deployment and ability to keep pace with a very fluid battlefield...especially if we are to negate our numerical inferiority. This division will go a long way in timely reinforcing or plugging of gaps in our lines or assaulting or reinforcing assaults on gaps in their lines.

 

[Super Falcon]

mi 35 hind is a great heli for a army about heavy lift heli chinkooks are good but there is a another option which russia builds for its heavylift needs its far more better and versitile than chinkook i forget the name of the chopper but i will post a photo of it

 

[Super Falcon]

Dimensions
Length With Rotors Turning19.6mHeight With Rotors Turning5.4mLength, Tail Pylon and Blades Folded13.5mHeight, Tail Pylon and Blades Folded4.1mMain Rotor Diameter 16.4mTail Rotor Diameter3.2mLength4.8mFull specifications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) is one of two versions of the NH90 twin-engine multi-role helicopter being developed by NH Industries. The other version is the NH90 TTH Tactical Transport Helicopter.

NH Industries, the prime contractor for the programme, is a joint venture company owned by AgustaWestland (32&#37 of Italy, Eurocopter (62.5%) and Stork Fokker (5%) of the Netherlands. Eurocopter is a subsidiary of EADS (European Aeronautics Defence and Space) company formed by DaimlerChrysler Aerospace of Germany, Aerospatiale Matra of France and CASA of Spain.

"The NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) is one of two versions of the NH90 twin-engine multi-role helicopter from NH Industries."In June 2000, the participating countries signed a contract for the production of 243 NH90s: France 27 NFH, Germany 80 TTH (with an option on a further 54), Italy 46 NFH and 70 TTH, and the Netherlands 20 NFH. Germany converted 42 options to firm orders (30 TTH for the Army and 12 TTH for the Air Force in June 2007.

The first series production TTH helicopter made its maiden flight in May 2004 and the first NFH in August 2007. France ordered an additional 12 TTH variants for the army and will procure 22 more in 2008 and 34 in 2010. These will replace ageing Puma helicopters.

First deliveries of the NH90 took place on 13 December 2006, when three TTH transport helicopters were handed over to the German Army following German Type Certification. Deliveries of the TTH to Italy began in December 2007. Deliveries of the NFH naval variant are expected to begin by the end of 2008. Italy is to receive the first NFH helicopter.

In June 2001, Portugal became the fifth nation to join the NH90 programme, with a requirement for ten NH90 TTH helicopters. The Portuguese industrial partner is OGMA.

In September 2001, the NH90 was chosen as the common helicopter for the Nordic Standard Helicopter Programme, for the navies of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Sweden has ordered 18 (13 TTT, five NFH), Finland 20 TTH and Norway 14 NFH (six for ASW and six for the coastguard). The first, a transport variant (called Hkp 14 in Swedish service), was delivered to Sweden in June 2007. Sweden is the first customer for the High-Cabin Version (HCV), which has a cabin height of 1.82m compared to 1.58m for the standard version. Deliveries to Finland began in March 2008.

In July 2004, 20 NH90 helicopters were ordered by the Royal Air Force of the Sultanate of Oman.

In August 2004, the Australian Ministry of Defence selected a version of the helicopter, the MRH 90, to meet the Australian Army requirement for 12 troop transport helicopters under the Air 9000 programme. The contract was signed in June 2005.

The first four helicopters are being built by Eurocopter in France, the remainder by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of Eurocopter. The first MRH90 made its maiden flight in March 2007. The first two helicopters were delivered in November 2007 and entered service with the Australian Army in December 2007. Deliveries are scheduled to complete in December 2009.

A further 35 helicopters were ordered for the Australian Navy in June 2006. The MRH90 is to replace the ageing Navy Sea King and Army Black Hawk helicopters.

In April 2005, the NH90 was selected to replace the Royal New Zealand Air Force's fleet of UH-1H Iroquois helicopters. A contract for nine helicopters was signed in July 2006.

"In 2003, the NH90 became the first medium-sized transport helicopter to fly with full fly-by-wire controls."In June 2007, Belgium placed an order for eight NH90, four NFH naval and four TTH transport plus two optional TTH helicopters.

In January 2007, the Spanish government placed an order for an initial batch of 45 helicopters in the TTH configuration.

Total NH90 orders are 495 fixed and 60 options from 14 countries.

In December 2003, the NH90 became the first medium-sized transport helicopter to fly with full fly-by-wire controls, with no mechanical back-up. This is the serial production configuration.

NH90 NFH ROLES

The primary missions of the NH90 NFH helicopter are in the autonomous Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface ship Warfare (AsuW) role.

In a typical four-hour 'relocation on call' operation, the helicopter would take: 35 minutes to reach the area of operation; 20 minutes releasing sonobuoys; two hours on surveillance in the area of operations; 30 minutes releasing torpedoes; and 35 minutes to return to ship and land, with 20 minutes in reserve.

In a typical four-hour 'screening' operation, the helicopter would take: 15 minutes to reach the area of operation; three hours and 30 minutes in the operations zone carrying out 11 consecutive cycles of ten-minute sonar dipping; and 15 minutes to return to the ship and land, with 20 minutes reserve.

In the anti-surface warfare role, the helicopter is capable of detection, tracking, classification, identification and attack of hostile ships, and has over-the-horizon capability. Secondary roles include Anti-Air Warfare (AAW), Vertical Replenishment (VERTREP), Search and Rescue (SAR), troop transport and mine laying.

COCKPIT AND AVIONICS SYSTEMS

The helicopter has a crew of three: the pilot and Tacco (the tactical coordinator responsible for mission management) and the Senso (sensor systems operator) in the cabin. The cabin of the NFH is equipped with an avionics bay with a sensor operator station and a tactical coordinator station, a dipping sonar and a sonobuoy launcher.

"The cabin of the NH90 is equipped with an avionics bay with a sensor operator station."The NH90 has "fly-by-wire" all electric flight controls from Goodrich Actuation Systems and Liebherr Aerospace. This full authority quadruplex system increases the manoeuvrability of the aircraft while decreasing the weight. The avionics system is supplied by Thales Avionics and is based on a dual MIL-STD-1553B digital databus. The cockpit has five 8in x 8in colour multifunction liquid crystal displays for flight, mission systems and maintenance data. Honeywell Primus 701A weather radar is fitted.

The avionics package includes the Thales Topowl helmet-mounted sight and display which has a 40° field of view. Topowl also equips the Tiger and Rooivalk attack helicopters.

Under a contract awarded in January 2008, German NH90 helicopters will be fitted with EADS Defence Electronics MilOWS, a military version of the HELLAS laser-based helicopter obstacle warning system.

ARMAMENT

The NATO Frigate Helicopter can be armed with anti-submarine torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and air-to-air missiles.

COUNTERMEASURES

The helicopters for France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Finland are fitted with a self-protection suite from EADS Defence Electronics, which is also being supplied to the Tiger helicopter. The suite includes EADS AN/AAR-60 MILDS missile approach warning system, Thales TWE Threat Warning Equipment with integrated radar warning and laser warning receivers and MBDA Saphir-M chaff and flare dispenser.

Norwegian NFH are to have the ITT AN/ALQ-211 Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (IRFCM) suite. Swedish helicopters will be equipped with an EW suite supplied by Saab Avionics, in conjunction with Avitronics of South Africa. Avitronics is jointly owned by Saab and Grintek.

"The NH90 is equipped with an integrated communications and identification management system. "SENSORS

The NFH is equipped with a tactical Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) system mounted in the nose, a Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) and a sonar suite. French Navy NFH will be fitted with the Flash Sonics sonar system from Thales Underwater Systems, which combines the Flash active dipping sonar with the TMS 2000 sonobuoy processing system.

The Norwegian and Swedish Navy NFH will also operate a version of the system, Flash-S, optimised for conditions in the Baltic Sea. Dutch, Italian and German NFH will be equipped with the Helicopter Long Range Active Sonar (HELRAS). The HELRAS dipping sonar is supplied by ELAC Nautik of Kiel, Germany, a subsidiary of L-3 Communications.

The NFH is equipped with a Thales European Navy Radar (ENR) 360° surveillance radar mounted under the nose. ENR is derived from Thales Ocean Master and has been developed in conjunction with EADS and Galileo Avionica. Swedish NFH will have AN/APS-143B(V)3 Ocean Eye multimode surveillance radar from US company, Telephonics. Ocean Eye has both SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) and ISAR (Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar) imaging modes.

COMMUNICATIONS

The NH90 is equipped with an integrated communications and identification management system. The secure radio system provides air-to-air and air-to-ground communications. The TSC 2000 IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) supplied by Thales was developed under German and French cooperation. The helicopter is equipped with a Link 11 secure datalink.

PROPULSION

The NFH Helicopter is powered by two RTM 322-01/9 engines supplied by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca.

"The NATO Frigate Helicopter can be armed with anti-submarine torpedoes."For the Italian requirement, GE Aircraft Engines and Avio are co-producing another engine model, the T700/T6E1. The engines are fitted with a FADEC engine control system. This engine has also been selected by Spain.

In August 2007, a version of the RTM-322 for hot-and-high conditions was certificated by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca, for the helicopters for Oman.

The fuel tanks, which hold 1,900kg of fuel, are fitted with crash-resistant, self-sealing cells supplied by Uniroyal Englebert Reifen, based in Aachen, Germany.

The fuel management system is by AFG. The Auxiliary Power Unit (APU), from the Microturbo division of the Labinal Group, provides electrical engine starting and powers the ground operation Environmental Control System (ECS).

 

[Super Falcon]

Dimensions
Length With Rotors Turning19.6mHeight With Rotors Turning5.4mLength, Tail Pylon and Blades Folded13.5mHeight, Tail Pylon and Blades Folded4.1mMain Rotor Diameter 16.4mTail Rotor Diameter3.2mLength4.8mFull specifications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) is one of two versions of the NH90 twin-engine multi-role helicopter being developed by NH Industries. The other version is the NH90 TTH Tactical Transport Helicopter.

NH Industries, the prime contractor for the programme, is a joint venture company owned by AgustaWestland (32%) of Italy, Eurocopter (62.5%) and Stork Fokker (5%) of the Netherlands. Eurocopter is a subsidiary of EADS (European Aeronautics Defence and Space) company formed by DaimlerChrysler Aerospace of Germany, Aerospatiale Matra of France and CASA of Spain.

"The NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) is one of two versions of the NH90 twin-engine multi-role helicopter from NH Industries."In June 2000, the participating countries signed a contract for the production of 243 NH90s: France 27 NFH, Germany 80 TTH (with an option on a further 54), Italy 46 NFH and 70 TTH, and the Netherlands 20 NFH. Germany converted 42 options to firm orders (30 TTH for the Army and 12 TTH for the Air Force in June 2007.

The first series production TTH helicopter made its maiden flight in May 2004 and the first NFH in August 2007. France ordered an additional 12 TTH variants for the army and will procure 22 more in 2008 and 34 in 2010. These will replace ageing Puma helicopters.

First deliveries of the NH90 took place on 13 December 2006, when three TTH transport helicopters were handed over to the German Army following German Type Certification. Deliveries of the TTH to Italy began in December 2007. Deliveries of the NFH naval variant are expected to begin by the end of 2008. Italy is to receive the first NFH helicopter.

In June 2001, Portugal became the fifth nation to join the NH90 programme, with a requirement for ten NH90 TTH helicopters. The Portuguese industrial partner is OGMA.

In September 2001, the NH90 was chosen as the common helicopter for the Nordic Standard Helicopter Programme, for the navies of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Sweden has ordered 18 (13 TTT, five NFH), Finland 20 TTH and Norway 14 NFH (six for ASW and six for the coastguard). The first, a transport variant (called Hkp 14 in Swedish service), was delivered to Sweden in June 2007. Sweden is the first customer for the High-Cabin Version (HCV), which has a cabin height of 1.82m compared to 1.58m for the standard version. Deliveries to Finland began in March 2008.

In July 2004, 20 NH90 helicopters were ordered by the Royal Air Force of the Sultanate of Oman.

In August 2004, the Australian Ministry of Defence selected a version of the helicopter, the MRH 90, to meet the Australian Army requirement for 12 troop transport helicopters under the Air 9000 programme. The contract was signed in June 2005.

The first four helicopters are being built by Eurocopter in France, the remainder by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of Eurocopter. The first MRH90 made its maiden flight in March 2007. The first two helicopters were delivered in November 2007 and entered service with the Australian Army in December 2007. Deliveries are scheduled to complete in December 2009.

A further 35 helicopters were ordered for the Australian Navy in June 2006. The MRH90 is to replace the ageing Navy Sea King and Army Black Hawk helicopters.

In April 2005, the NH90 was selected to replace the Royal New Zealand Air Force's fleet of UH-1H Iroquois helicopters. A contract for nine helicopters was signed in July 2006.

"In 2003, the NH90 became the first medium-sized transport helicopter to fly with full fly-by-wire controls."In June 2007, Belgium placed an order for eight NH90, four NFH naval and four TTH transport plus two optional TTH helicopters.

In January 2007, the Spanish government placed an order for an initial batch of 45 helicopters in the TTH configuration.

Total NH90 orders are 495 fixed and 60 options from 14 countries.

In December 2003, the NH90 became the first medium-sized transport helicopter to fly with full fly-by-wire controls, with no mechanical back-up. This is the serial production configuration.

NH90 NFH ROLES

The primary missions of the NH90 NFH helicopter are in the autonomous Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface ship Warfare (AsuW) role.

In a typical four-hour 'relocation on call' operation, the helicopter would take: 35 minutes to reach the area of operation; 20 minutes releasing sonobuoys; two hours on surveillance in the area of operations; 30 minutes releasing torpedoes; and 35 minutes to return to ship and land, with 20 minutes in reserve.

In a typical four-hour 'screening' operation, the helicopter would take: 15 minutes to reach the area of operation; three hours and 30 minutes in the operations zone carrying out 11 consecutive cycles of ten-minute sonar dipping; and 15 minutes to return to the ship and land, with 20 minutes reserve.

In the anti-surface warfare role, the helicopter is capable of detection, tracking, classification, identification and attack of hostile ships, and has over-the-horizon capability. Secondary roles include Anti-Air Warfare (AAW), Vertical Replenishment (VERTREP), Search and Rescue (SAR), troop transport and mine laying.

COCKPIT AND AVIONICS SYSTEMS

The helicopter has a crew of three: the pilot and Tacco (the tactical coordinator responsible for mission management) and the Senso (sensor systems operator) in the cabin. The cabin of the NFH is equipped with an avionics bay with a sensor operator station and a tactical coordinator station, a dipping sonar and a sonobuoy launcher.

"The cabin of the NH90 is equipped with an avionics bay with a sensor operator station."The NH90 has "fly-by-wire" all electric flight controls from Goodrich Actuation Systems and Liebherr Aerospace. This full authority quadruplex system increases the manoeuvrability of the aircraft while decreasing the weight. The avionics system is supplied by Thales Avionics and is based on a dual MIL-STD-1553B digital databus. The cockpit has five 8in x 8in colour multifunction liquid crystal displays for flight, mission systems and maintenance data. Honeywell Primus 701A weather radar is fitted.

The avionics package includes the Thales Topowl helmet-mounted sight and display which has a 40° field of view. Topowl also equips the Tiger and Rooivalk attack helicopters.

Under a contract awarded in January 2008, German NH90 helicopters will be fitted with EADS Defence Electronics MilOWS, a military version of the HELLAS laser-based helicopter obstacle warning system.

ARMAMENT

The NATO Frigate Helicopter can be armed with anti-submarine torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and air-to-air missiles.

COUNTERMEASURES

The helicopters for France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Finland are fitted with a self-protection suite from EADS Defence Electronics, which is also being supplied to the Tiger helicopter. The suite includes EADS AN/AAR-60 MILDS missile approach warning system, Thales TWE Threat Warning Equipment with integrated radar warning and laser warning receivers and MBDA Saphir-M chaff and flare dispenser.

Norwegian NFH are to have the ITT AN/ALQ-211 Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (IRFCM) suite. Swedish helicopters will be equipped with an EW suite supplied by Saab Avionics, in conjunction with Avitronics of South Africa. Avitronics is jointly owned by Saab and Grintek.

"The NH90 is equipped with an integrated communications and identification management system. "SENSORS

The NFH is equipped with a tactical Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) system mounted in the nose, a Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) and a sonar suite. French Navy NFH will be fitted with the Flash Sonics sonar system from Thales Underwater Systems, which combines the Flash active dipping sonar with the TMS 2000 sonobuoy processing system.

The Norwegian and Swedish Navy NFH will also operate a version of the system, Flash-S, optimised for conditions in the Baltic Sea. Dutch, Italian and German NFH will be equipped with the Helicopter Long Range Active Sonar (HELRAS). The HELRAS dipping sonar is supplied by ELAC Nautik of Kiel, Germany, a subsidiary of L-3 Communications.

The NFH is equipped with a Thales European Navy Radar (ENR) 360° surveillance radar mounted under the nose. ENR is derived from Thales Ocean Master and has been developed in conjunction with EADS and Galileo Avionica. Swedish NFH will have AN/APS-143B(V)3 Ocean Eye multimode surveillance radar from US company, Telephonics. Ocean Eye has both SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) and ISAR (Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar) imaging modes.

COMMUNICATIONS

The NH90 is equipped with an integrated communications and identification management system. The secure radio system provides air-to-air and air-to-ground communications. The TSC 2000 IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) supplied by Thales was developed under German and French cooperation. The helicopter is equipped with a Link 11 secure datalink.

PROPULSION

The NFH Helicopter is powered by two RTM 322-01/9 engines supplied by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca.

"The NATO Frigate Helicopter can be armed with anti-submarine torpedoes."For the Italian requirement, GE Aircraft Engines and Avio are co-producing another engine model, the T700/T6E1. The engines are fitted with a FADEC engine control system. This engine has also been selected by Spain.

In August 2007, a version of the RTM-322 for hot-and-high conditions was certificated by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca, for the helicopters for Oman.

The fuel tanks, which hold 1,900kg of fuel, are fitted with crash-resistant, self-sealing cells supplied by Uniroyal Englebert Reifen, based in Aachen, Germany.

The fuel management system is by AFG. The Auxiliary Power Unit (APU), from the Microturbo division of the Labinal Group, provides electrical engine starting and powers the ground operation Environmental Control System (ECS).

 

[JK!]

That helo in your post is the Mi26 Halo which I mentioned earlier as a potential for heavy lift.

There appears to be currently only three out on the market those being the:

1) CH47 Chinook
2) Sikorsky CH53E Super Stallion
3) Mi26 Halo

 

[TOPGUN]

Which ones are we interested or can get ????