Pak army chief gets tough, asks Zardari, Gilani to act on corruption

[fatman17]

it is very clear, that the army chief will not undertake any initiative which is counter-productive to Pakistan's interests, politically and from a security PoV.

 

[GUNNER]

My personal view, this is all a prelude to implement a sort of military rule that has a puppet front of a civilian democracy so that it stays palatable for the Western sources of funds and arms..

That will not be workable as we saw under Musharraf.

Its not for the military in a democracy to point out corruption and inefficiency in the govt.

You are talking about ideal conditions, which do not exist in Pakistan at the moment.

I persoanlly think that Army has become the easy fallback for most Pakistanis since it absolves them of the responsibility of choice.

One may bash the existing govt of Pakistan as much as they want, but at the end of it, they have been selected by the people themselves. And indirectly the blame falls on the people for selecting bad leaders. Hence Army seems the escape hatch since Army just assumes power without the citizens having any say in it. If it works, good.. If not, well they can always say that they didnt have a choice..

Part of what you say is right. But, you have to understand the political culture of this country. No doubt, the government has been voted in by the people and they did so by choice. Having done so, the government couldn't deliver on some fronts and the inherent sense of insecurity has seen it focusing more on it's survival rather than the huge issues confronting the country. You call it an escape hatch, but i would rather see it as a safety valve. It's role, not defined in Constitution - even though there were forums like NSC meant for this, assumes more importance.

USA cant be seen to be openly backing a dictatorship at this time with everything else going on in its backyard.
On the other hand, a dictatorship in Pakistan may give it a bigger leeway to expand its war in KP since then it wont be attacking a democracy.

Kayani knows this.. What he may need to find out is the location of the threashold..

Given the role of Kayani in the WOT and how he has placed the national interests before the interests of US, i don't think the US would like to see him incharge at this point in time. They will be more comfortable dealing with a civilian setup which is wary of the Army.

 

[dabong1]

Maybe the army can lead by example.......lets go after the corrupt general first and maybe then we can take them a bit more seriously on the issue.

 

[Man of Thoughts]

Maybe the army can lead by example.......lets go after the corrupt general first and maybe then we can take them a bit more seriously on the issue.

Corruption is every where,in every country,in every department,

All we talked about is ideal conditions which don't exist anywhere,

In other countries if some have 100$ then he pay back 90$ to his people and 10$for himself

but in Pakistan They keep 90$ for themselves and 10$ for people...

This is the only diffrence between Pakistan and Other countries....

 

[third eye]

Just for the record it is also NOT within the law in Pak for the elected PM and President to seeks Army Chief's help to save their rule endangered by their ill-planned clash with judiciary.

See , its your country, your PM & Your COAS.

Whatever ppl feel is good for their nation is ok with me.

My Q remains, in what capacity / clause of the constitution or law is a COAS advising a PM on a non military subject.

 

[Man of Thoughts]

See , its your country, your PM & Your COAS.

Whatever ppl feel is good for their nation is ok with me.

My Q remains, in what capacity / clause of the constitution or law is a COAS advising a PM on a non military subject.

There is no capacity for COAS advising a PM on a nOn-miliry subject in constitution of Pakistan (As i Know)

But Army in Pakistan has a great influence on politics since the day Pakistan Born,This is also due to situation of Pakistan as there is no ideal condition...
And Influence of army mostly help Pakistan as our leaders are not much capable

 

[karan.1970]

So the influence of Army in Pakistan and the bad situation of Pakistan today seems to be a mitigating factor for Army acting unconstitutionally. But isnt it a thought worth thinking that the influence of Army in Pakistan is probably the problem and the same contributes to some extent to the state Pakistan is in today.

 

[GUNNER]

My Q remains, in what capacity / clause of the constitution or law is a COAS advising a PM on a non military subject.

http://www.na.gov.pk/acts/act_2004/national_security_council_act2004_190404.pdf

 

[karan.1970]

http://www.na.gov.pk/acts/act_2004/national_security_council_act2004_190404.pdf

"The Council serves as a forum for consultation for the president and the federal government on matters of national security including the sovereignty, integrity, defence, and security of the State and crisis management in general. It may also formulate recommendations to the president and the federal government in such matters."


Get your house in order hardly sounds like a formulated recommendation..

 

[GUNNER]

"The Council serves as a forum for consultation for the president and the federal government on matters of national security including the sovereignty, integrity, defence, and security of the State and crisis management in general. It may also formulate recommendations to the president and the federal government in such matters."


Get your house in order hardly sounds like a formulated recommendation..

There can be difference of opinion on the mandate of council members but it gives them a role nevertheless. And, we are no doubt talking about unsubstantiated news reports, of which there is no dearth.

 

[karan.1970]

There can be difference of opinion on the mandate of council members but it gives them a role nevertheless. And, we are no doubt talking about unsubstantiated news reports, of which there is no dearth.

Sure.. The whole discussion here is assuming that the reports are correct. Also this council is purely for matters of national security. Now you could extrapolate corruption causing issues with National security, but that way everything can be linked to national security..

Both you and I know this is no NSC recommendation from one of the 21 members to the chairman

 

[GUNNER]

Sure.. The whole discussion here is assuming that the reports are correct. Also this council is purely for matters of national security. Now you could extrapolate corruption causing issues with National security, but that way everything can be linked to national security..

The word crisis management in general has been put there just for that reason. As i said, you may disagree with what the council members' mandate is, but the whole point of NSC is to give some sort of role to the Military in politics.

 

[karan.1970]

The word crisis management in general has been put there just for that reason. As i said, you may disagree with what the council members' mandate is, but the whole point of NSC is to give some sort of role to the Military in politics.

And there is nothing wrong with that role.. But the event in question doesnt seem like an output of a consultative session. More like an ultimatum. Also if you go by the words used in the context by the learned Pakistani members are indicative of the same..

 

[GUNNER]

But the event in question doesnt seem like an output of a consultative session. More like an ultimatum.

That my friend, we may never know. Depending on which side people are, some will portray it as threat - some would like to see it as a suggestion.

 

[third eye]

There can be difference of opinion on the mandate of council members but it gives them a role nevertheless. And, we are no doubt talking about unsubstantiated news reports, of which there is no dearth.

Thanks for the link.

I agree often what one reads in the press is what the corespondent would have preferred to have happened.