PAF suspends “Air Force Development Plan 2025,” says report

[Zarvan]

In thy ignorance , lies thy solace . I got the same old rhetoric without talking with logic and facts . I ask again , where are the Arab countries now when Islamabad needs them according to you ? Where's the Ummah helping hand ? Go learn about the agreements the Saudi Arabians signed with New Dehli . Enlighten yourself how the world works instead of this myopic view of it .

Where do F16's come from ? How will we pay for 150 J10B's each costing somewhere $ 36 million flyaway cost ?

sir ummah has shown it self several times sir and Muslims have joined together to fight and help each other against enemy and the kind of help you got from Saudi Arabia is well known mr and you have to get these planes and you have acted like good slaves of USA they should give you bones in the shape off F- 16

 

[Secur]

sir ummah has shown it self several times sir and Muslims have joined together to fight and help each other against enemy and the kind of help you got from Saudi Arabia is well known mr and you have to get these planes and you have acted like good slaves of USA they should give you bones in the shape off F- 16

No 'Ummah' ever showed up.

Just countries who happened to be Muslims helped us for their own interests and influence in Pakistan and for their own safety with the nuclear umbrella . No brotherhood involved. Otherwise even the Chinese have provided more military assistance to Islamabad than entire imagined Ummah could muster getting its forces trained by Pakistan Army and inviting the Americans to fight their war, ironically with other Muslim countries.

 

[Slayer786]

Anything to do with the Global Recession of 2007 by any chance and the fact Pakistani economy only grew by an average of 2.9% in the last 5 years?

That just shows the performance of the last govt. It was a corrupt govt, where our foreign reserves shrank from US$16 billion to now hovering between US $10-11 billion. This govt failed on all accounts.

But there was a budget allocated for the PAF project since 2003, but sadly the corrupt practices of Zardari and co. destroyed our economy and hence no funds left.

It is easy to blame global recession, but what did the govt do to counter the effect? Nothing. It only depended on the US AID and loan from the World bank to keep the govt afloat.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Then , my dear countrymen . I think we can do with a little optimism here

Well , not only in the 90's , there have been a couple of times when the time came and fortunately went . Reminds me of the last sentence in the national anthem of the country every time assuring the people of " divine providence " and " God's protection " .

It would be too early , my friend , lets wait and watch how does the new Govt turns out for the Pakistani people .

I agree with what you are saying.
But, I am overly pessimistic, it's entirely necessary.
When certain members used to show up in threads criticising Pakistan and Pakistanis, often I wouldn't understand what their problem was, why are they so. Now, their words seem entirely relevant. We need optimism, but we also need to get rid of this 'ho jayega' attitude, it just wont work for us any more. Wherever you go in Pakistan, you ask people of their troubles, you will see a lot of them end with the same thing, for someone to come along, swoop down from the heavens and fix Pakistan or for some great leader to change Pakistan. Hardly ever have I heard anyone acknowledge that change starts from the individual, no-one has once said they'd work their @ss off to provide for their family, always I hear.... 'the government should change', 'should help us' blah blah, while they don't even pay taxes.

My pessimism is my own feeble attempt to change something about us as a people, starting with this forum.
I'm sorry buddy, but you'll have to put with more of my biaching here. It's entirely necessary IMO.

 

[Jungibaaz]

sir ummah has shown it self several times sir and Muslims have joined together to fight and help each other against enemy and the kind of help you got from Saudi Arabia is well known mr and you have to get these planes and you have acted like good slaves of USA they should give you bones in the shape off F- 16

I haven't been following this Ummah debate, so forgive me if what I say its out of place...

Ummah is no longer an ultimate alliance any more IMO.

We Muslims are too divided. Blame whoever you want, that's not my point.
We as Pakistanis should not be relying on our brothers to help us.
We should not entirely rely on God to help us. For God will not help those who are too lazy to help themselves.

We should stand up on our own two feet, and ask for God's blessings.

 

[Tacticool]

.[/QUOTE]. There's no limit to your ME love .[/QUOTE]

Love of arab is the sign of eeman

I haven't been following this Ummah debate, so forgive me if what I say its out of place...

Ummah is no longer an ultimate alliance any more IMO.

We Muslims are too divided. Blame whoever you want, that's not my point.
We as Pakistanis should not be relying on our brothers to help us.
We should not entirely rely on God to help us. For God will not help those who are too lazy to help themselves.

We should stand up on our own two feet, and ask for God's blessings.

The division on the basis of nations is the most successful tactic of west against muslims. Thats why iqbal said
"break the idols of country and nation, and get yourself absorbed in the ummah "

 

[Donatello]

That it was, but even that envisioned better upgrades and so on.
The money crunch has been hard..and trying to sugar coat it or paint it a brighter color in the name of optimism is not my piece of cake.

Perhaps , at this time it's not such a bad thing as relations with India should likely improve under Nawaz and the focus of the armed forces has shifted inward.
Look at the bright side.. the PAF continues to change it's staff cars year after year.. that's a good sign..Cant buy aircraft.. doesnt mean your officers should not ride in the new 2014 Toyota Corolla.

People are no longer joining the military to serve the nation, but rather to make a good career. Like FFS? If you want to make money, better go to Engineering School, Medical school, Business school etc. Military is funded by the taxpayers, many of whom are leaving the country.

I mean when the perks are like plots of land and business initiatives, why wouldn't people join the military?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh , no , people wont be angry , trust me , take my word for it . They will be amused by this nice joke at not-so appropriate time .

For the past 60 years , this is exactly the thing we have deluded ourselves with - that there exists a Ummah when clearly there doesn't . The world runs on interests , not this supposed , imagined and assumed brotherhood of sorts , the world runs on ' quid pro quos ' .

Your Arab friends will need to get explicit permission - a no objection certificate if you will from the US congress themselves , why not directly approach the Americans if we are to go that route somehow and then ask them to fund any program of our liking ? Why do not they come out themselves ? You may be surprised to know what wonders some of the Arab countries are currently doing in Baluchistan .

@Armstrong @Hyperion @muse @FaujHistorian @haviZsultan @Aeronaut Insights ?

Well said.

Pakistanis do not follow what "development oriented" Arabs of UAE are doing.

We ape jih@di Arabs.

Then we say Arabs do not help us


If we truly copy the policies of UAE Emirs, we too will be able to buy F-16s and other equipment "directly" from USA instead of begging stuff from 3rd parties.


peace

 

[Bratva]

The pic cropping didn't come out good but you get the idea! 2 star car this...

Ranj Genraylou ko bohot hai magar aram ke sath

Qaum Ke gham mei dinner khatain hain hukkam ke sath

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....where our foreign reserves shrank from US$16 billion to now hovering between US $10-11 billion. ....

While there is no doubt that Ghaddari gov was corrupt to the core.

However foreign reserves is an issue that involves much more than Ghaddari.


Our options were foreign reserves are really limited.


Why?

We utterly refuse to copy Chinese, South Koreans, and Taiwanese.

They have shown us how to earn "large amounts of foreign reserves".

They have shown for decades that countries must work their backs off while supplying stuff to the USA.

But we refuse to see that.

Our masses utterly fail to work their backs off for the USA and EU.

And

thus our foreign reserves are no more.


peace

 

[Secur]

Love of arab is the sign of eeman

That is exactly the sort of thinking that has got us into this mess in the first place . Instead of a free foreign policy based on the interest of the nation , we have delusional Ummah followers asking to run the country on emotions and brotherly love which doesn't exist . Your Arab brethren are currently warming a lot to the Indians apart from fueling insurgency in Baluchistan , show some love there too !

 

[Secur]

Well said.

Pakistanis do not follow what "development oriented" Arabs of UAE are doing.

We ape jih@di Arabs.

Then we say Arabs do not help us


If we truly copy the policies of UAE Emirs, we too will be able to buy F-16s and other equipment "directly" from USA instead of begging stuff from 3rd parties.


peace

Mate , its not actually about following this and that sort of Arabs or anyone even though I am all in favor of following " good " things from everyone .

The simple question is that why we aren't running the foreign policy on Pakistan's interest but rather on the interest of the Middle East countries - the so called limited Ummah vision who do not give a darn about Islamabad anymore . Why are we so emotional about them ? That , sir , need to be asked .

Why not formulate our own policies and govern the country without any outside interference ? Why not !

I do not want anyone to help us , but ourselves . Why should they help us today ? They see a more valuable partner in the form of Indians next door , why help the Pakistanis and mess their relations with the new found friend . Even the Saudi Arabia doesn't want to do that , mate . The other few are busy in making sure that Gwadar doesn't reach its full potential because it hurts their interests .

Talking of copying , I remember once we helped the Koreans with their " economic model " . Trust me , if we mend our ways we wont need to go anywhere for anything . Countries will line up to invest in here and the defense contractors visiting Islamabad to sell their products .

 

[FaujHistorian]

......Instead of a free foreign policy based on the interest of the nation , we have delusional Ummah followers asking to run the country on emotions and brotherly love which doesn't exist . ..!

Quick question.

What exactly you would like to see if our foreign policy is "free" from Arab pressure?


Thank you

 

[Secur]

Quick question.

What exactly you would like to see if our foreign policy is "free" from Arab pressure?


Thank you

Improved relations with the neighbor next door to the West keeping our interests in mind and no influence of any sort whatsoever by building mosques and madarsas and pushing their outdated ideology whilst enjoying the not-so Islamic life in their palaces whilst the common Pakistani is radicalized and ready to kill/blow himself up on the slightest difference of opinion . We take no sides in the Arab-Persian feud nor do we promise any nuclear umbrella to anybody unless we are getting a fair deal . Never again , should we fight a war for no one ! Never again be a politician be pardoned because get this Prince Bandar amongst countless princes negotiated the deal for him !

 

[Mian H Amin.]

well, we are a POOR country. thats the bottom line ...