PAF superiority over IAF in 65 war

[toxic_pus]

American Broadcasting Corporation’s Roy Maloni in 1965 war:

First, there is/was no news agency named American Broadcasting Corporation. It is/was American Broadcasting Company. Second, here are some google search results of ‘roy maloni’ http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=e...dow=1&q=roy+maloni&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq= (even google can't believe it) and of 'roy malone' http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=e...&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=roy+malone&spell=1 Only references of ‘roy maloni’ are from Pakistani web sites and forums, copy pasting each other, without giving a direct link to any of his quotes. Can you please help us here. A direct link to his quotes or at least a neutral citation of these quotes would be appreciated.

THE 1965 INDO- PAKISTAN WAR:

-snipped-

(Anthoney Robinson, former staff of the RAF Museum, Hendon and now a free lance Military aviation writer . Book: Elite Forces Of The World)

In another thread, I had shown you, that this book probably doesn’t exist. Here again, you have posted it, hoping that no one will notice. I can see that you have decided not to learn. Good going.

" The Indian soldier is soft while the Pakistan soldier is tough and determined. The Indian leadership is vacillating and uncertain, while the Pakistan leadership is well trained, highly talented and decisive."

Yup, Yahya changing command in the middle of the war, was indeed a sign of 'well trained, highly talented and decisive' leadership.

 

[TexasJohn]

Gnat Older then F86..Give me a break.F86 was inducted in USAF in 1949 while Gnat was inducted in RAF in 1959.As you mentioned yourself in those days only maneuverability mattered so older Mig21 variants were equally manvorable and even lighter then new variants..In 1971, after 6 years of sanction PAF Jets did not have spares and many were not in service due to spares issue yet it managed to shot down planes in Western Sectors and Indians overall had higher losses then PAF even in 71 although the ratio was lower then 65.How do you know PAF toady does not have cohesive thinking and good training?You are assuming yourself as you are Indian which i expect from you.You indians are pure loosers.

You are thinking about the XF-86 prototype. PAF had F-86D, and F-86E. I stand corrected on the dates, the F-86 models you guys flew was a couple of years older than the Folland Gnat. But these were two completely different class of aircraft. We will just have to agree to disagree on the performance and capabilities of the two.

As far as your rant I highlighted for you - I am proud of my Nation and fly it's flag. You have a Ukranian flag. What are you? Ukranian or Pakistani? You appear to have an identity crisis.

I suppose anyone that disagrees with you is automatically "Indian"! wow!

 

[All-Green]

Guys it is very simple.
Which air force you think got the better of the other one in 65?
I say PAF hands down.
Whats the fuss?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I don't understand the logic behind comparing Pakistan in 1971 to Allies during WW2.

The Allies did suffer setbacks, but they were able to overcome them. Did the Allies surrender eventually? No. Pakistan did because it was never able to recover from these setbacks.

Point being a couple of battles in West Pakistan does not mean India overwhelmingly defeated Pakistan on the Western Front.

And calling me implicitly a "wise-arse" isn't flaming and trolling?

No - it's calling you out on your attempt to flame and hijack the discussion.

Even Indians have heard Pakistanis numerous times boasting about PAF aerial victories as if they actually won the 1965 war. Why don't they boast about the 'heroics' of the Pakistani Army during the Battle of Asal Uttar and Operation Gibraltar?

What does that have to do with your off topic comments on Op. Searchlight?

Like I said - stick to the topic and quit trolling.

 

[SQ8]

Include me in the lols khajur..
lol.. somebody is lost in his world of dreams..
Muslims of Pakistan my cats ***. Natural fighters...The vietcong fought against a superpower..and were fierce in all respects. Never heard of a Muslim VC. lol.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Guys it is very simple.
Which air force you think got the better of the other one in 65?
I say PAF hands down.
Whats the fuss?

The fuss is that if Indians accept any of the failings of 'mighty India' vs Pakistan, they can't repeat the canard of 'defeated Pakistan in all three wars' ad nauseum.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

First, there is/was no news agency named American Broadcasting Corporation. It is/was American Broadcasting Company.

You are clearly a big fat deluded indian. like i have said earlier which you simply can not comprehend is that most of these articles are 40+ years old and you are not going to find the link on the internet... and i believe such historical news papers are stored.. yes their are alot of minor mistakes. such as the one above which should not be the issue. if its not "american broadcasting "corporation"" then its "company"... its not like the made up the name... i told you before.. like... Christopher Sivores, Book: Air Aces ... not sivores but "SHORES".
a big deal for indians.

Second, here are some google search results of ‘roy maloni’ roy maloni - Google Search (even google can't believe it) and of 'roy malone' roy malone - Google Search Only references of ‘roy maloni’ are from Pakistani web sites and forums, copy pasting each other, without giving a direct link to any of his quotes. Can you please help us here. A direct link to his quotes or at least a neutral citation of these quotes would be appreciated.

good luck finding a average 1960s journalists.

In another thread, I had shown you, that this book probably doesn’t exist. Here again, you have posted it, hoping that no one will notice. I can see that you have decided not to learn. Good going.

already said before.... a book name error then.... same was the case with Air ace author.


and what you have to come up with the rest of 1965 articles? they are also fake? right..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You are thinking about the XF-86 prototype. PAF had F-86D, and F-86E. I stand corrected on the dates, the F-86 models you guys flew was a couple of years older than the Folland Gnat. But these were two completely different class of aircraft. We will just have to agree to disagree on the performance and capabilities of the two.

PAF did not operate F-86D... only E and F. can you technically prove that F-86 is superior to Gnat listen to Sir muradk who is telling us the truth with facts..

 

[TexasJohn]

no actually we operated a superior F-86 and the type was super stealth un deflatable which were only defeatable by indians because the indians said so..
and btw PAF did not operate F-86D... only E and F. unless you can technically prove that F-86 is superior to Gnat you need to just keep quite and listen to Sir muradk who is telling us the truth with facts.. his source is not WIKIPEEDIA but his own brain which indians clearly lack at such moments.

I could have sworn you guys got F-86Ds that were upgraded to E model. I don't recall Muradk ever saying the Gnat was superior to F-86. So let's all shut our collective mouths till he clarifies the facts, shall we?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I could have sworn you guys got F-86Ds that were upgraded to E model. I don't recall Muradk ever saying the Gnat was superior to F-86. So let's all shut our collective mouths till he clarifies the facts, shall we?

This is a sabre D...

 

[Patriot]

You are thinking about the XF-86 prototype. PAF had F-86D, and F-86E. I stand corrected on the dates, the F-86 models you guys flew was a couple of years older than the Folland Gnat. But these were two completely different class of aircraft. We will just have to agree to disagree on the performance and capabilities of the two.

As far as your rant I highlighted for you - I am proud of my Nation and fly it's flag. You have a Ukranian flag. What are you? Ukranian or Pakistani? You appear to have an identity crisis.

I suppose anyone that disagrees with you is automatically "Indian"! wow!

So much bullshit..You do realize there was only little thrust to w ratio difference between F86F and earlier variants...?It was not zero to 1 like Folland Gnat which was unheard of at that time (This by the way is coming straight from IAF Pilot's mouth).F86F sabre had T/W R of was .40 (clean config- source: AC rtd Kaiser's Tufail Book).You do agree the Gnat folland air frame was superior and size did matter in those days and gnat was smaller.PS even your hunter was equally matched according to several PAF Pilots (Rafique who was killed in action) and it had better TW Ratio .56 (Clean config) and the most laughable thing was your MIg21 theory.There was so such thing as advanced avionics or AI Radar at that time so no even mig21 of that time was extremely deadly due to which PAF had to send very first strike to Pathankot air base to wipe your Mig21 fleet (which did work and the all pilots returned unharmed go figure..paf f86 were so superior that your jets did not even take off..totally stealthy).F104 was more like a rocket therefore it did not have much success in air combat.
regarding identity you see the big flag in avatar?I am Pakistani residing in Ukraine..If i live in Ukraine that does not mean i should join here with a fake Ukrainian name and try to post as if i am a Ukrainian citizen.It's you who have identity crisis.Do i see India anywhere in your profile..of course not..even though you are of Indian Origin.You can see Pakistan in my avatar..and now dont tell me you are only American and not Indian..Choosing a American user name and putting US flag's does not make you American only...unless of course you have forgotten your Indian heritage.Unlike you, I am proud of being a Pakistani just because i am in Ukraine does not mean i should forget my Pakistani Heritage...Therefore, i have both Ukraine as well as Pakistani flag's in my profile.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------

I could have sworn you guys got F-86Ds that were upgraded to E model. I don't recall Muradk ever saying the Gnat was superior to F-86. So let's all shut our collective mouths till he clarifies the facts, shall we?

I wonder what PAF did with D's and why most of the kills were from F Model damn..PAF must be hiding them somewhere during war..Now go back to your bharat rakshak and try to find more bullshit i am sure soon you will be posting more excuses for IAF Poor performance like it planned more sorties and other bs.One sore looser.

 

[Shiji]

Almost in all wars and wars and conflicts PAF has scored greater kills against the IAF. Now kills due to AAA or Crashing while seeing a F-104, count as Kills.
Here is a list I compiled from Indian sources proving my even in 1971 we killed greater than we lost, even though only 2 F-86 Squadrons went up against 11 Bomber/Combat Squadrons in the East.
IAF kills in 1965: 16 In-Air + 8 On-Ground= 24 Kills
IAF kills in 1965
IAF Looses in 1965: 38 In-Air + 37 On-Ground= 75 Losses
Indian Air Force Losses -1965 War
IAF kills in 1971: 20 In-Air + 23 On-Ground= 43 Kills
IAF Kills in 1971
IAF Looses in 1971: 75 Confirmed + 17 Unconfimed= 92 Losses
Indian Air Force Losses in the 1971 War
IAF kills 1990-till date: 1 Navy Survalence Aircraft
IAF shoots down Pakistan spy plane over Gujarat
IAF losses 1990-till date: 5 + 1 UAV=6
IAF Losses in 1990s

 

[Muradk]

I could have sworn you guys got F-86Ds that were upgraded to E model. I don't recall Muradk ever saying the Gnat was superior to F-86. So let's all shut our collective mouths till he clarifies the facts, shall we?

No friend we first got F-86 E and F.

 

[Shiji]

We got Ex Canadian F-86E's and F's. Here is a list of F-86's, showing the F's in PAF service.

F-86F-35 NA-202 photo:
F-86F NA-206 240 - - Cancelled order.
F-86F-40 NA-227 215 55-3816 to 55-4030 227-1 to 227-215 Inglewood-built export model with 12-inch wingtip extensions. To Japan, Tunisia, Pakistan, Spain
F-86F-40 NA-227
F-86F-40 NA-227 65 55-4983 to 55-5047 227-216 to 227-280 As above, to Pakistan, Taiwan, Korea.
F-86F-40 NA-227

http://f-86.tripod.com/f86list.htm

 

[Shiji]

Edit: "Sorry My Net Is Screwed Today"