PAF should've invested more on J-10s rather than JF-17s

[hj786]

This reminds me of the Su-15, which were only opertated by the Russians and were always looked with caution by the NATO.

Don't you mean the Mig-25 Foxbat?
I read that when it was designed, NATO thought it was some kind of Mach 3 superfighter. They made the F-15 specifically to counter it. The Russians allowed NATO to detect the Foxbat on radar blasting around at Mach 3 and this shocked them.

When a Russian pilot defected with a Foxbat to America, they tested it and found it was nothing special. It's maneuverability was very poor, even it's top speed was not all that great - if it went above Mach 2.5, the engines had to be replaced! You couldn't stay at Mach 3 for long because the airframe would overheat. Even getting to Mach 3 needed careful throttle control or the engines would blow.

 

[hj786]

hj786 u don't understand do you??? F-16 is a potent fighter but its time we change out supplier..

I agree with you completely bro! Ideally we would be our own suppliers.

tomw in suppose next 7 years us offers you a suppose special blk 55 F-16 for Pakistan i am sure u guys will says chalo chaleeyee lets get it. Times changed need to get over with this F-16 fever even a super hero gets old..jf-17, j-10 and since we do not know the truth about JXX or any other version of J-10 so next inline should be Rafale..thanks but no thanks i am no more freakin crazy fan of F-16 though i acknowledge its a best jet.....Yes we need to define our future plans.

Tomorrow PAF will not buy any F-16s! Why? China can supply technology similar to block 52 F-16 even now, soon they will have finished developing block 60 F-16 technology if they haven't already. Why do you think PAF are only ordering 18 new F-16s? It is only to test them, see how they work, their strengths and weaknesses, find out how Pakistan should design it's own advanced technology, develop tactics and practice how to use this type of advanced EW/ECM jammer technology against modern radars and BVR missiles, advise the Chinese how to improve their own technology to even higher levels, etc.
I think they will only order more new F-16 if China refuses to give advanced technology for FC-20/JF-17, which I doubt will happen.

Crap, sorry for two posts instead of one.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear MastanKhan;sir
i have a simple question!
if paf have already lost the war with india in december 2008, thn how comes , a pakistani eagle got a "LOCK ON" on a IAF SU30MKI?
plz describe it.
thanks

Hi---,

How are you? A lock on is a lock on ----and nothing more---nothing less. No missiled launched---just letting the other guy know---I got you in my sights. During the kargil war---an IAF plane had a lock on an F 16.

That incidence was possibly a setup by the IAF---there were possibly strike aircraft waiting on the other side of the border flying real close---waiting for the PAF fighter to launch the first missile---That was basically a trap set by the indians----if the missile would have been launched by the F 16---all hell would have broken loose.

So, good job to the PAF pilot for not launching and listening to his air controller and keeping his cool.

As we know now that there were multiple incursions at different places across the border---I firmly believe that each one of them had multiple strike aircraft flying---laying low in the indian airspace waiting for PAF to take the first shot---the rest would have been fair game.

Incursions happen from both sides---intentional and unintentional---it is a way of life for a pilot----we simply don't shoot down the other guy. This time the consequences were very serious. It was a DARE---we gave them a double DARE---by not shooting.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Coming to why we are only getting 18 F 16 BLK 52's. First of all we don't have the funds---second we don't like the tone of the american policy makers---i e congress and senate.

Today, if the PAF doesnot know what a BLK 52 can do---then truly they need to take off their uniforms---put on their civvies----and say good bye to the life protecting the blue skies over pakistan. But this is not so---they truly know what the blk 52 is capable of---but FC 20 is a reality as much as BLK 52 may become an illusion by future sanctions---so that is why they have switched back to the old reliable.

Maybe they have found some chinks in the IAF armour---the decision has been finalized to walk away from american aircraft for good after this purchase---some bad blood has started to build up between the U S and pakistan---PAF has chosen to let this love affair dissipate in due time.

 

[qsaark]

Don't you mean the Mig-25 Foxbat?

No I was talking about Su-15, NATO name Flagon. It was an interceptor and was only operated by the Russia during the cold war. Later, they were replaced by MiG-31 and probably Su-27. Sukhoi Su-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

[batmannow]

Hi,

Coming to why we are only getting 18 F 16 BLK 52's. First of all we don't have the funds---second we don't like the tone of the american policy makers---i e congress and senate.

Today, if the PAF doesnot know what a BLK 52 can do---then truly they need to take off their uniforms---put on their civvies----and say good bye to the life protecting the blue skies over pakistan. But this is not so---they truly know what the blk 52 is capable of---but FC 20 is a reality as much as BLK 52 may become an illusion by future sanctions---so that is why they have switched back to the old reliable.

Maybe they have found some chinks in the IAF armour---the decision has been finalized to walk away from american aircraft for good after this purchase---some bad blood has started to build up between the U S and pakistan---PAF has chosen to let this love affair dissipate in due time.

MastanKhan;sir
thanks i am doing well,
"the decision to walk away from american aircrafts" is very good one after expereincing all the sanctions, & the senate hearrings, & all the other bullshite crap.
FC-20 , along with J-11bs , can do the job, i guss!
IAF with its 230+ mig-21"flying cofins" cant be called a superior force, although they, have hi-tech aircrafts like su-30, mirrags, mig29s, jags, but even that, they are lacking a "back bone" due to 230+ mig-21"flying cofins"?
su-30, mirrags, mig29s, jags, needs more overhauling , more spares were needed to fight a war, same as the case of indian navy they had the big and better ships, but they are surly lacking the technicalties, spares ?

that is the fact , that's why they couldnt go for any adventure for now.

 

[Patriot]

Well guys..honestly our air power is very weak.We seriousely needs new airplanes.PAF should have went ahead with Mirages deal in 1990's and we would have bough Qatari's Mirages now.Anyway our PAF Pilots are doing a damn good job.

 

[batmannow]

Well guys..honestly our air power is pretty weak.We seriousely needs new airplanes.PAF should have went ahead with Mirages deal in 1990's and we would have bough Qatari's Mirages now.

its looks week , but its not, but for future surly PAF needs more thn 550 hi-tech aircrafts?

 

[iceman2009]

Batmannow.

IAF has only 100 su30 mki as of today MAX

As for MIG21 they have 125 mig21 BISON with R77/27 BVR upgrade.

And still 75+ junk older mig21 which will be phased out by SU30 MKI nos by 2010...

 

[Super Falcon]

i agree with you that paf should have invested more in J 10 or J 11 than JF 17 because J 10 and J 11 are more powerfull they carry more payload than JF 17

 

[tarrar]

I think Pakistan should invest more on j-10 and Pakistan should work on future plans with china on air force only and only with china. Pakistan and Chines Scientist should work together and upgrade and make new planes. Pakistan should stop relying on USA and Europe they will not help. Pakistan should also go to Russia they might not help as much as they are helping India but we might get some time from them if not air crafts then at least other military stuff.

 

[batmannow]

Batmannow.

IAF has only 100 su30 mki as of today MAX

As for MIG21 they have 125 mig21 BISON with R77/27 BVR upgrade.

And still 75+ junk older mig21 which will be phased out by SU30 MKI nos by 2010...

iceman2009,sir
plz prove it, as you are not a spokes person of IAF, credible sources only!

"125 mig21 BISON with R77/27 BVR upgrade" but still indian fly boys dont wanted to sit inside its, "cockpit", which really needs a upgrade?

my friend , plz be remain in 2009...."75+ junk older mig21 which will be phased out by SU30 MKI nos by 2010"

 

[batmannow]

i agree with you that paf should have invested more in J 10 or J 11 than JF 17 because J 10 and J 11 are more powerfull they carry more payload than JF 17

Super Falcon; sir
JF 17 is a very important development for PAF, its the back bone of our force in comming future, & hopefully it will be the best of its times! its a very , very good fighter for sure, but we need more variety to, improve our force from just a defensive role, to an "ELLITE MULLTIROLE- ATTACK FORCE"
thats why , we need to have " J 10 and J 11 " as thier spares , comming from china, thier weaponry comming from china, it would be availible in any condition!

 

[Luftwaffe]

Agree bro...but if we needed it experience/feel/performance/avionics etc why 18??why not a fleet of 6 only???

 

[All-Green]

I believe PAF is doing the right thing by sticking with JF-17.
Our primary role is denying air superiority to any invading force.
We do expect to be largely outnumbered in such a scenario.
For us to succeed in this role we need small, capable and highly maneuverable fighters which can take off from areas such as Motorways and small lightly prepared temporary runways. An aircraft which is light on maintenance so that small teams dispersed throughout the country can keep large numbers operational.
Long time ago this could have been a factor in consideration of Grippen; since Sweden had similar strategy against a possible overwhelming Russian invasion.
This shall ensure that our air force shall be a thorn in the enemy's side even if our major airbases are damaged and inoperable.
I do believe that JF-17 would fill this role quite well as opposed to heavier fighters.
Instead of buying western jets we shall be installing state of the art avionics package from various western sources in JF-17 which from the looks of it so far seems a very maneuverable fighter, this is in my mind better than buying any particular western jet in future since it shall enhance our technical expertise and also keep our options much more open.

J-10 (FC-20) will be excellent addition but JF-17 will be the backbone and as far as i can see, it shall indeed add much more muscle to our Air force in all aspects.

Rest assured as long as our F-16s are around the 100 mark, that's OK by me in the short to mid term. For long term we need to focus on JF-17 and J-10 (FC-20).