PAF should've invested more on J-10s rather than JF-17s

[Safriz]

if u read i have written "i don't know maybe 4 billion $ "


There is no proof that zardari is responsible the weapons deal is in hands of parliament and military and in our country military does not need any1's permission admit it.

those days are long gone..
now military does need permission from civilian govrnment..
minister of defence controls the defence budget not the Army cheif...

 

[Manticore]

This is a thread for paf options NOT indian deal explanations .... so stick to this topic and contribute if you can or else leave the thread

 

[abdulbarijan]

MK, we may say it a thousand times, these people are really not getting the point the last thing you and I would need to do is bang our heads against the walls.

- When you remind them of 36 Rafale [would have been a strategic purchase], they tell you J-10B is the answer and all the nonsense comes along sanctions and stuff, Rafale an operational fighter vs Prototype...besides the last trouble solved AESA ready...remember they bragged about mirage III/V buy was a great deal but when you ask them during kargil war, French stopped the ones sent for upgrades that was before economic crunch now Europe will sell you anything it is all about show me money! so applying their logic was mirage deal good, These people run away without answers, post 2000 everything is about Money.

Woot ... ur seriously angry man take a chill pill..... Lets take a look, people like you like to defend the Rafale deal but remember at the time Rafale was always criticized for being over costly for the things it provided...the reason why it never had an export customer till the MMRCA...
Need i remind you of a post (your own from another thread back in the good ol days)....

lets sum up everything rafale is not that bad with design and although over priced it has superior avionics to many fighter Jets but it is nowhere near F-22/F-35/EF-2000, even SU-35 is a challenger. Its a disaster product i would stress. After Mirage 2000/-5/-9 french market has collapsed. arrogant enough french are cursed they themselves have axed themselves time and again they will be able to sell it in limited quantity but future is lost. future is F-35/EF-2000 followed by for third world J-10B/SU-35/pak-fa for world air forces. Like i said before france will have bad days infact bad years ahead in marketing rafale..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/53000-what-wrong-rafale.html

So before going and targeting people with certain opinions sir you should take a look at your former self as well....


But now that the rafale deal is done you go ahead and blame it on PAF....One day its France will have quite trouble marketing rafale and the next it is "PAF should've bought it to kill the MMRCA" quite unlike the senior member we used to respect and look up to

 

[lightoftruth]

paf options should be
1. modernizing wat u have right now .
2.improve ur Sam network.
3. save money for future deals.
4.bvr missiles and radars r wat future wars will be dependent on so if possible try put ur hands on AESA.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My personal View is that , JF17 was more beneficial for Pakistan because it teaches our engineers how to construct a proper fighter jet the knowledge gained is valuable.

I read in ww2 related article , during the war - war is not won by nation who has the most assets start of war but by the nation who can better or quicklier replace lost assets (Tanks, Fighters, Jeeps)

JF17 also is better option because, it immediately fills the gap for our national defense

a) 50 extra JF17 thunder from China , promise alone sent uncle SAM running for his mommy
b) J10B are only coming in 2014 which is a bit far off

Now we have about 100 JF17 thunders projected in our airforce and pilots trained on it vs receiving jets from China in 2014


Plus 300 JF17 thunders > 36 J10B , not to mention that JF17 is getting batch 2 upgrades

J10B would be probably best for special missions but JF17 is going to be (infact is already is) a workhorse

 

[shuntmaster]

PAF should've invested more on j-10s rather than jf17s.
=========================================================
certain people are putting the comparisons interms of general capability like this..

1]jf17 (block1) = 70% of f16c/jas39 grippen
2]jf17 (block2) = 90% of f16c/jas39 grippen
3]j10 = 85% of f16c/jas39 grippen

This means that JF17 Bk-2 is better than J10? If so, why is PLAAF not inducting JF17 into its fleet, instead of J10?

 

[Manticore]

This means that JF17 Bk-2 is better than J10? If so, why is PLAAF not inducting JF17 into its fleet, instead of J10?

i meant general capability ... i posted it in 2009 , before jxx and j10b appeared..before a lot of info on jft surfaced..at that time members were using ''%'' alot... and i asked ''professionals'' to clear things up for me... as this '%' was confusing ...also i asked something in the first post :-

please read my initial post again ... as i was asking professionals why we didnt stick to one design rather than had to get both .. what were the pros and cons? what will be the level till which we would ultimately upgrade jft before the 'cost effectiveness' diminishes and the cost of jft blk3 reaches close to j10

where does the jf-17 lack as compared to the j10 and how does this handicap affect paf? can the paf ''afford'' this handicap?why didnt we design a medium wt fighter? why didnt we not make a air superiority design delta/canards


what will be the level till which we would ultimately upgrade jft before the 'cost effectiveness' diminishes and the cost of jft blk3 reaches close to j10

what will be handicaps even in jft blk3 due to structural size restictions and design properties?

Ideal ratio?
jft blk1: jft blk2 : f16 + j10 : jxx

i had saved the google /global sec pics which marked pak-indian airbases and their relative distance from the border --- it would be interesting to factor in the actual flying radius paf needs for effective attacks with standoff weapons ---- CAN anyone google them and post it here? i dont remember where i saved those pics


The answers by professionals in this thread indicate its a mid tech fighter if you read this thread

also check post 90

 

[Beast]

This means that JF17 Bk-2 is better than J10? If so, why is PLAAF not inducting JF17 into its fleet, instead of J10?

Becos, its a lie... JF-17 will never be better than J-10.. Why? Cos China is the producer of both aircraft..

If the master is not inducting it. Then you shall have the answer which is better...

 

[shuntmaster]

i meant general capability ... i posted it in 2009 , before jxx and j10b appeared...also i asked something in the first post :-

How does J10B compare with JF17 Blk-2?
Isnt JF17 a lot cheaper than J10? So, why does PLAAF still stick to J10 instead of acquiring some J17 squadrons??

Becos, its a lie... JF-17 will never be better than J-10.. Why? Cos China is the producer of both aircraft..

If the master is not inducting it. Then you shall have the answer which is better...

Who is lying? what is the actual fact?

 

[45'22']

Becos, its a lie... JF-17 will never be better than J-10.. Why? Cos China is the producer of both aircraft..

If the master is not inducting it. Then you shall have the answer which is better...

JF-17 is a joint venture with pak,and it provided with 50 % of the technology
u produced them with pakistani help,isnt that true

 

[thinkingcap81]

Hi,

Shouldn't the debate now stop?

If, as some posters are suggesting, PAF has deceived the nation, then the only thing to look forward to is whether the trend is being repeated with greater detrimental effects. The past cannot be undone, but are the current plans satisfactory?

It is not a problem if PAF currently deliberately deceives the Pakistani people --- but this is only as long as the top brass kbow that in the very near future a lot of the misdeeds will be undone.

Somehow i feel relieved that now India has cash to pay the arms industry. Had we been in the same boat as Pakistan is in, then even IAF would be roundly blamed. Making mistakes is in our DNA.

 

[Luftwaffe]

My Former posts are all consistent all the way back from 2009 Yes blame is on PAF, Rafale is disaster in terms of price BUT for the air force that has nothing else left and the last card to play Rafale is (correction was) one of those options that is Technology and superiority...for India Rafale is just another good buy they could have chosen F-18s or Typhoons.

Maybe you did not read it, I referred J-10B for third world not mentioning Pakistan here you are fixed up, Yes French had trouble in mrca regarding marketing it all ended well due to Politics, now should I copy-paste my posts or should you go back re-post my other posts regarding Rafale all the way back from 2009. Now all my from various Threads are consistent you can go back as far as 2009.

Now instead of picking on posts, pray tell what is your answer to my earlier post on page 10, obviously nada nil.

There has been no satisfactory answer to the question IF JF-17 BLK III is considered ultimate with many changes than what is the purpose of J-10B because the ultimate variant is going to be costly you want to keep up with technology and superiority in today's age you will spend. You people do your homework well before jumping on others.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/115500-comparison-b-w-j-10b-dassault-rafale-whos-better-fighter-aircraft.html#post1870516

 

[shuntmaster]

My Former posts are all consistent all the way back from 2009 Yes blame is on PAF, Rafale is disaster in terms of price BUT for the air force that has nothing else left and the last card to play Rafale is (correction was) one of those options that is Technology and superiority...for India Rafale is just another good buy they could have chosen F-18s or Typhoons.

Maybe you did not read it, I referred J-10B for third world not mentioning Pakistan here you are fixed up, Yes French had trouble in mrca regarding marketing it all ended well due to Politics, now should I copy-paste my posts or should you go back re-post my other posts regarding Rafale all the way back from 2009. Now all my from various Threads are consistent you can go back as far as 2009.

Now instead of picking on posts, pray tell what is your answer to my earlier post on page 10, obviously nada nil.

There has been no satisfactory answer to the question IF JF-17 BLK III is considered ultimate with many changes than what is the purpose of J-10B. You people do your homework well before jumping on others.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/115500-comparison-b-w-j-10b-dassault-rafale-whos-better-fighter-aircraft.html#post1870516

So, are you implying JF17Blk-3> J10B > Rafale > JF17Blk-2 > J10 meaning JF17blk-3 is better than Rafale??

 

[SQ8]

When the option to purchase F-16's was decided upon.. the PAF thought of having a 130 to 140 F-16's as its high end mix...with some 150 F-7's taking up its low end...
What those people that keep advocating against the JF-17 dont understand is that it is our low end mix..
It is the replacement for our day interceptors the F-7 and the Mirages.. and improves upon all their capabilities by a large margin.
IT was NEVER a choice on the JF-17's.
The choice was in getting new F-16's..or new Gripens.. or new M2K's.. or new J-10's..
Sadly.. some people just cant get that into their heads.
You keep a high end.. and you keep a low end.. the low end that is designed to play the numbers game..

 

[Luftwaffe]

So, are you implying JF17Blk-3> J10B > Rafale > JF17Blk-2 > J10 meaning JF17blk-3 is better than Rafale??

Nope, discussion is IF JF-17 BLK III (turned into High End) is going to be ultimate with everything that J-10B will have what is the purpose to procure 150 J-10Bs obviously rumors and certain men over here are saying JF-17 BLK III will be alot different in dimensions-size to BLK I/II. Non has satisfactory answer to the inquiry. Second at one point PAF says no Funds on the other hand procurement of J-10Bs and investment in BLK III JF-17.