PAF should think seriously with a new angle after Abbot Abad drama !!

[cybertron]

Why I still feel that you are not a Pakistani? Do you really have any idea what you're talking about????

u think he's not a pakistani? do U really have any idea whom u r talking to???

@MK
i really do hope their r more sane people in pakistan lik u who dont always resort to conspiracy theories and r ready to face the harsh realities. Sometimes a bit of pessimism does reap results.

mastan bhai, u shud knw (bttr than me) dat pakistan cant and isnt in a position to buy all that stuff that u say it should. 50 eurofighters could cost 5 billion and do u think PAF at this moment or in recent past cud afford that.
PAF might have takn some bad decisions in the past, v cant change those decisions, can we?? ofcourse one could learn from it and in my opinion PAF has done a fairly good job (in recent times) with the resources that it has in disposal.
Aquiring awacs and refuelling capability in a short span of time isnt a small acheivement,is it??

 

[MastanKhan]

Cybertron,

So---if pak cannot buy what it needs to fight against india----then the other solution needs to be considered hard and fast. If the gap is going to be massive that pakistan can never overcome---then there is no reason to keep on pouring good money into a bad strategy.

There are three things that pakistan can do.

1. pak needs to go after the al qaeda and taliban. Al qaeda needs to be neutralized ruthlessly and taliban, ie, afghani taliban need to be divorced---and pak taliban treated in the same manner as al qaeda.

2. The 5 main culprits that india want for mumbai bombings need to be charged and executed without being handed over to india

3. Make peace with india---if the above two are met----india will be cornered into signing a peace deal---there will be no outlet left for india this time.

Wars don't have to be fought in the battle fields all the time---those being played in the living rooms can be as deadly and ruthless as those on the live battle field.

The goal for all this procurement is to have no war between the two countries----all major weapons purchases have politcal connotations behind them. All major weapons make a political statement---and that is---" my weapon is equally deadly as yours----if you strike me---I will strike back with similiar or multitude of destruction----so stay away ".

That was the reason that pak air force didnot make the major purchase between 2002 and 2005---because it was decided by Musharraf that peace with india was almost done----so there would have been no need to make the buy.

That was one of his mega blunders----being too optimistic too soon---deciding before the agreement was signed---. If he would have gone ahead and bought those rafaels or grippens in 2003--2004----the situation between pak and india would have been different----.

So, tell me what would be the big deal in blowing $5 billion in weapons purchase if that made india come to the peace table----. Would have been done and over with----the country would have moved in a different direction----but in order for you to do that----you ought to have courage----which Musharraf did have---you ought to have vision---which he did have----but seemingly it got clouded at the very last---maybe bad advice or a bad judgement call---or he was too confident that there was no way india would back down.

Now as for as the indian procurement is concerned----just because it has a massive gdp----doesn't mean it has a blank check either----it has its own limitations---it can only spend so much on defence---and as it has a bigger millitary---the expenditure is much bigger----. Similiarly---with this bigger expenditure, india has to do massive upgrades to its already existing systems that are going obsolete.

secondly---in order to have a total dominance---it has to have a much higher number of highly sophiticated equipment to over power the opponent.

Now that is where the technology comes in to play---as the technology is a force multiplier in itself---. But in the end---india can never be at that point where it can confidently say that yes if we go in---we will take them out fair and square---for the reason---they will have to have half their assets or a little less than half their assets to cover their backs.

This again ends up in a stalemate----. In the end---india is in a no complete win situation---and neither is pakistan in a total loss situation---so what does india need to do----.

India needs to show magnanimity----. It needs to think like a big nation that it is----it needs to think with a bigger heart. Remember---people who are living in misery---what do they have to lose---not a lot---then compare it to those who have open horizons in front of them----.

Somebody in india need to pickup on that and keep on harping about it----somebody in pakistan needs to do the same as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

Raja Fawad,

My good friend from multan---my homeland-----there is no reason for pakistan to invest any further in the r5esearch for weapons of death and destruction anymore. This current world is an extremely fragile world----what happens in one corner of the world effects the other.

Look at the tsunami in japan---the nuclear reactor fiasco---it was a terrible thing that happened and those reactors that were considered so safe had the world very concerned about what was to happen----the economy in the u s slowed down again---people were worried.

Now think about a nuc strike---what would that to the world----in a war like scenario with india---that would happen---possibly by the end of day one---. should pakistan take the rest of the world down with us---should india take the rest of the world down with it----do we have the right to take them down just because we hate each other so much and cannot live together and cannot resolve our issues like intelligent men and women that we are.

There is a word in english language "INSULT"---so in order to make a person open his eyes---he/she needs to be insulted---to give them a shake---to wake them up----to get the blood boiling---or just to get a reaction----. In this case the CLEVERNESS of the pakistanis and the indians needs to be insulted, humiliated and degraded---in order for them to stop in their tracks and re-think what they stand for and what they want and how they are going to get it.

Right now---when one adversary is down---the other one wants to jump on it and pummell it further down---which infuriates the first one who will retaliate harder when he gets the chance----.

It is like a war between little children----a war between grown up adults with small minds and very little vision----one beats the other and laughs---then the other beats the other and they laugh---and then in the end they all are counting their laughs to see who has more laughs----so the one who has more laughs and ended up humiliating the other party thinks that he is victorious---and the other party says---wait till my turn comes and I will rub your nose harder----to get my laughs back.

Is this the way of men---educated men---men with brilliant minds and resources---men who want to be considered the leaders in the current technical revolution that the world is seeing---these men and women should have had the stature of giants----but in truth---they act like puny little worhtless creatures.

It ultimately comes down to what you see reflecting back at you when you look at your reflection of you looking back at you in the mirror. What you see looking back at you---is how you see yourself----if you see a ras-cal looking back at you then that is whop you will act like---but if the person looking back at you looks like a professional who wants to help make the difference---then that is what you are.

 

[emoriphious]

I am shock that PAF dont even have any airfield in Abbatabad.?????????????

PAF needs more airbases and fighter aircrafts specially near Afghan border in order to counter these threats.I think JF-17 I and JF-17 II will be fine but Airfroce need more airfields & airbases.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well , there is no angle ...

There was airspace violation , and we had a understanding 10 years ago for such mission for special case, provided we were , given credit for our intelligence sharing and hard work our army , ISI and local police did.

We did out part but we got backstabbed

That is the only angle , we have

a) Bad Police
b) Bad real estate taxation tracking (no software)
c) No sales tax
d) No SWAT team


So we could not detect , the incident as we had Earth quakes in 2005, and 2008-2009 massive floods largest in our history 100 year history so our
army , airforce, and navy units some what were used to bring relief in effected areas

Its quite possible for 1-2 man to slip thru in wave of 3-5 million refugees that moved from their homes

The only angle is that our Public relations office also failed to properly convey our side of story

If Obama wanted to get all credit he got it , but he lost Trust with our people and military and airforce and navy

BACK stab ...100 times worse then F16 backstab

I mean what kind of decision he made ? I mean really

This is Pakistan an ally whose soldiers died in war on terror more ppl died in Pakistan


There is no angle -

There will just be more SAM's now and no uncles

 

[muse]

Not just PAF but in general, PA aviation simply do not have enough mobility, their focus is not on QR Forces - well, of course there is a government which finds it difficult to focus on the economy and the fiscal discipline required to get the economy going, which in turn can may greater resources available to the PAF and PA aviation.

 

[Pak_Sher]

(01) The Abbottabad incident changes everything and we need to go back to the ADA Levels of the First Afghan War. Where PAF used to be in the skies in minutes.

(02) After this mistrust the US will no longer sell advanced systems to Pakistan and if they do they will be ineffective or sanction prone systems for any serious conflicts. Pakistan can no longer trust US Systems for it defence.

(03) Additional radar stations and operational bases need to be built through out the country especially in the mountain terrain.

(04) PAF needs to accelerate aircraft procurement including multi-role fighters, helicopters, AEW&C, transport. With the Abbottabad incident 250 JF-17s is a small force. PAF should be planning for a 1000+ fighter aircrafts in the long term. The size of the ground forces in the Army could be trimmed by 10-20% to increase the combat capabilitty of the PAF. JF-17s number in the short term needs to bumped to 375-450 aircrafts. PAF may also dedicate 100+ aircraft to the Navy.

(05) Pakistan Army needs to have at least 3-4 Moutain Divisions and many of the infantry units can be transformed into different roles. Nigt Vision does exist in all units, but the night vision capability should be enhanced.

(06) Pakistan Navy needs to have its own Air Arm to defend the martimine frontiers. Acquisition and manufacturing of submarines needs to be accelerated.

Now that is the technology part, now the non-technology part.
(01) Use of mules and horses to transport weapons in the mountains should continue and enhanced.

(02) Additional dog centers to train dogs for the military.

(03) Dolphins to be used as sonaar by the Navy.

(04) Use of hawks, falcons and birds as spies should be enhanced.

 

[Pfpilot]

Maybe the only good thing about the recent deterioration of US-Pak relations is that more people are seeing the sad reality of our armed forces. The flaws are obvious, we have developed a light weight fighter with unproven technology to go up against Russian aerodynamic performance coupled with western avionics. We have f-16s that we over payed for, in my opinion, that we cannot use. And to really pull off a hat trick, cricket style....we seem to have no plan or involvement in any stealth technology to combat 200 odd pak-fas that will come, whether we like it or not.
Reactionary actions can doom the most prosperous nations...in the case of Pakistan, it is a disaster of epic proportions. How is it that when most of your resources are diverted from the social needs of your populous, your borders are completely unprotected and the technology needed for modern warfare is nonexistence. We bet our future on the fickle needs of army generals for short term bravado...and sssomehow, we couldnt even do thaaaat right...welcome to Pakistan in the 21st century!

 

[Silk]

I think a cleaning operations for the armed forces are needed. We need to remove those americani pithoes that want to see amerian stuff in our forces. They are the most dangerous for Pakistan. And please do have plan b for those block52. in this moment we have been showed that they are worth nothing.

 

[F86 Saber]

(01) The Abbottabad incident changes everything and we need to go back to the ADA Levels of the First Afghan War. Where PAF used to be in the skies in minutes.

(02) After this mistrust the US will no longer sell advanced systems to Pakistan and if they do they will be ineffective or sanction prone systems for any serious conflicts. Pakistan can no longer trust US Systems for it defence.

(03) Additional radar stations and operational bases need to be built through out the country especially in the mountain terrain.

(04) PAF needs to accelerate aircraft procurement including multi-role fighters, helicopters, AEW&C, transport. With the Abbottabad incident 250 JF-17s is a small force. PAF should be planning for a 1000+ fighter aircrafts in the long term. The size of the ground forces in the Army could be trimmed by 10-20% to increase the combat capabilitty of the PAF. JF-17s number in the short term needs to bumped to 375-450 aircrafts. PAF may also dedicate 100+ aircraft to the Navy.

(05) Pakistan Army needs to have at least 3-4 Moutain Divisions and many of the infantry units can be transformed into different roles. Nigt Vision does exist in all units, but the night vision capability should be enhanced.

(06) Pakistan Navy needs to have its own Air Arm to defend the martimine frontiers. Acquisition and manufacturing of submarines needs to be accelerated.

Now that is the technology part, now the non-technology part.
(01) Use of mules and horses to transport weapons in the mountains should continue and enhanced.

(02) Additional dog centers to train dogs for the military.

(03) Dolphins to be used as sonaar by the Navy.

(04) Use of hawks, falcons and birds as spies should be enhanced.

And in order to do all that, a few people in our parliament need to start crapping US$s ASAP..... I can tell you come from a rich family. A country that is facing 10,000 MW shortage in electricity and a 6000 BTU shortage in natural gas would have other things to worry about.

Here is what i think needs to be done, we need to stop spending s$&#t loads of money on armed forces and focus the funds on developing infrastructure to support the growth of our industry,

1. To India we tell that if we see even a dopey pigeon flying into our air space we fire the nukes, we are dying anyway so we'll just take your booming economy with us. There! MMRCA and FGFA problem solved, arms race over. Develop JF-17 and Al Khalid for export and earn foreign exchange.

2. To USA we show our middle finger, tell them to fight their own F*&#ing war in Afghanistan, focus our military to stop insurgency across the border, use our intelligence to clean up the remaining trash in Pakistan, Haqqani group and all. We are already in enough trouble supporting USA let’s see how much more we can suffer by not supporting them.

3. We need a leader who has the balls to implement the above two, throw the existing "Leaders" in jail, takes a whip in his hands and corrects the tax evaders, mafia's, thieves and tyrants.

It is backs to the wall time for Pakistan, we need to wakeup otherwise soon there will be no Pakistan left to ruin.

 

[arsalabbasi]

Why we need there ?? Afghanistan has any airforce ?? Not at all. Than for what purpose there should be air bases??

If you are saying that for NATO & USA airforce we need air bases than its very amazing that we need protection from an ally