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PAF Pilots To Be Honoured

Amazing work PAF pilots....proud of you.

Just out of the world performance....For our two best Pilots who shot down Mig-21 Bison and Su 30MKI...lots of Love and Affection.

:wub::wub: :pakistan::pakistan:
What about those pilots who bombed??

News: All the pilots who were in the air at that time will be awarded. Including two C-130 pilots, Falcon DA20/Saab 2000 crew etc.

The difference in superiority of medals will be there. For example if S/L Hasaan and Wg Cmdr Nauman will be awarded Sitara-e-Jurat then others might get Tamgha-e-Imtiaz.
What about those pilots who bombed?

Proud to have such brave pilots. They faced Sukhios top air superiority fighters & indian airforce 5 times larger than us.
We went back unharmed with 24 jets , shot down their 2 jets in dog fight.
These pilots deserves award.
5 times larger??
 
According to DG ISPR, the pilots who hammered the Indian Air Force on 27th February will be awarded. I expect this will be done on 14th August.


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back in the days, the gentleman below wrote an amateur but detailed analysis on how PAF should take on SU 30
and his words turned true on 27th although his thread was excessively trolled by Indians.
Know Thy Enemy– Dissecting SU-30 MKI
Introduction:

SU 30 MKI belongs to a world renowned SU 27 family of Russian flankers that are seen as a formidable NATO opponent. SU 30 MKI is presented as the most potent air superiority fighter in the heavy weight class that comes with an impressive mix of avionics and armament and benefits from both the Western & Russian input. Keeping that in view this article is based on how an opponent will try to look for any weaknesses or openings to counter this behemoth should a situation arise.

SU 30 falls in the class of heavy combat aircrafts due to its size and twin engines and payload capacity. We will mostly discuss the MKI version to be precise which is claimed to be the most potent variant of SU 27 family. But some general pictures and features will be used that are common in all variants of SU 30.

In most likely scenario that adversary will be PAF which will field its own front role fighters. Just like a boxer a fighter pilot always enters a battle with a view to win and does his homework to know the strengths and weakness and to avoid the former and exploit the later to achieve the kill.

(the fig gives you a visual idea about the scale of SU 30 vs a medium size plane like F16)

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IRS – Infrared Signature


The main sources of IR SL in aircraft are: power plant, nozzle, exhaust plume, airframe, Hot engine parts of the tail pipe and the air intakes. Among these, the Power plant is the major source of IR emission because of the large amount of heat produced by the engine. Plume radiation is visible from all aspects, because of its dimensions and orientation. Bigger the aircraft, bigger would the area of air friction and drag contributing more towards IRS so “bigger is better” rule doesn’t apply here.


Exposed Twin Engines – bigger IR Signature

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The central beam section between the engine nacelles consists of the equipment compartment, fuel tank and the brake parachute container. The fuselage head is of semi-monocoque construction and includes the cockpit, radar compartments and the avionics bay. PLEASE NOTE THAT TWIN ENGINES ARE NOT ENCASED IN THE FUSELAGE .

The aircraft rear fuselage has a large surface area at relatively low temperature, which is primarily heated by the embedded powerplant and external aerodynamic heating by the freestream. An Engine encased in the fuselage reduces the IR Signature .
The engine casing (engine nacelles) and nozzle act as grey bodies and emit radiation in all IR bands – In case of SU30MKI it is even exacerbated by the overly exposed twin engines , thereby making IR detection easier. Afterburner flames further enhance IR emissions from the powerplant. So its size and the construction makes it an IR beacon.


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RCS – Radar Cross-section – long distance detection made easy

With a larger RCS due to its size means it is seen from a farther distance, compared to a light or medium aircraft. An opponent would be able to achieve BVR lock before SU30-MKI would.

The Large dimensions contribute to IRS so they also fall in the category of the Achilles heel for MKI. If it survives the BVR missile fired at it, then travelling at mach 1 and above would mean that it would be approaching the merge within a minute or more. As it continues its travel towards that point and enters the medium and short range the IRS issue starts hanging over it like a large spectre.

PAF inventory:
F-16 Block 50/52 [BVR] [APG-68 radar] - F-16 A MLU – with upgraded APG-66 radar –[ advantage use of AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 AMRAAM- BVR missiles]

PAF F-16s are armed with – AIM-9 Sidewinder
Off-bore sight aiming capability, Proximity/optic fuse

At a Short/Medium range AIM-9 Sidewinder would have no difficulty downing a big mass of SU 30 MKI. Overly exposed Twin Engines of MKI would be radiating IRS off the charts, and the operational range of AIM-9 being - 1 to 35 km makes mince meat of the MKI.

Note: AIM-9M Proximity/optical fuse doesn’t even require waiting for the sight of the engines, being all aspect it can take down a MKI from side-on/frontal/any aspect.

Also the exposed twin engines would be emitting so much IRS that every inch of the aircraft would be crying out that it has got bigger IR Signature ‘Hit Me’!

Merge and Turning Battle
While on paper the diagonal thrust of the SU-30MKI pushes the face across and rotates the nose. In practice it is an altogether different thing, post merge when the turning battle ensues things may turn ugly. To minimize the turning circle the compulsion of using thrust Vectoring can prove fatal.

While climbing in scissors thrust vectoring puts the aircraft in post stall manoeuvre, the rear end drops and instead of going up the aircraft starts loosing elevation. Reason being Vector Thrust causes the centre of gravity to shift from mid to nose of the SU 30 MKI causing the tail end to fall, now applying angular Vector thrust the nose would turn around -but this would cause massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking. That’s what an F-16 pilot will be waiting for and he will barrel roll, dive and gun down the SU 30 that is losing altitude.

Thrust Vectoring Blessing or Curse


Now if you have got big mass and the sheer size is causing drag then Thrust Vectoring is rendered useless against an agile and good sustained Turner like an F-16. TVC has its advantages but it seems to be a double edged sword and can backfire even against a heavier aircraft with rate of turn not so great e.g. against experienced F-15 pilots WHEN USAF F-15s WERE CARRYING 4 MISSILES AND WING TANKS and MKIs were CLEAN- Red Flag 2008).

Note: in exercises such as Red Flag usually F-16s are used as red team [The aggressors] against the F-22 that has a sustained rate of turn of about 28 degrees at 20k feet. F-16 is one of the very few aircrafts that has managed to give F-22 Raptor a fight.

USAF Col. Terrence Fornof –Briefing: The Red Flag Experience



Deadly FOD
SU 30 MKI engines are very susceptible to FOD (Foreign Object Damage). So much so that the SOP is 1 minute spacing between take offs. (more on that some other time)

End Notes:

In the end it is concluded that PAF will take on the SU 30 in its territory of expertise which is WVR. This is where the most of the present day air to air combat has happened and this is where most of the air to air kills have been achieved. I rest my case quoting Colonel John Richard Boyd – Military Strategist, Pilot, Pentagon consultant of the late 20th century.
 
saw a youtube video I should have down loaded it. alsas there was so much happening and the war was on that I didnt get chance

their tv aired a small clip on 28 or feb or 1st week of march when it became apparent that Pakistan was going to claim second kill that video is now removed
NO I am not talking about the video where the Andian newscaster mixes up SU 30 getting shot down with F 16 getting shot down by slip of tongue while ticker claims F16 shot down. I am talking about a different video where the newscaster repeated and repeated that an SU 30 has crashed.
if someone downloaded in time then maybe it can be shared

This one?:

 
all the pilots were there for one purpose and that was to fight the enemy. they all had different roles. some had to go inside indian air space to bomb their third class army . others were there to protect the strike fighters from the indian third class air force. now it was just by a stroke of luck that the missiles from jets of S/L hassan and W/C noman struck their targets and two indian jets were shot down. otherwise rest of the pilots fired their missiles with the same intention. so all the strike force deserves to be rewarded.
 
So, Now after DG ISPRs most recent Presser! what do we have.
1. windjammer claim verified about ammunition dump.
2. Div. HQ and Chief of Army Bipin Rawat(India)
3. reiterating 2 x Kills scored by PAF ((Why the hidding!)
4. We had only 1 pilot. W/C abhinondone (very contradictory he himself said the 2nd pilot is dead)
5. We shall offer and celebrate PAF crew soon.

By the way you Guys at PDF noticed he thanked You!

@Windjammer @The Eagle @MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet
 
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