PAF Order of Battle

[shehbazi2001]

they were delivered but all were not active - kept in reserves and also used for spares to keep the F-86Fs flightworthy.

now we are not going to go to combat with the C130, T6G etc. its all about front-line sqdns in combat. just my HO.

Inayatullah of Maktaba-e-Dastan publishers in Lahore, in his book "Pak Fizaya kee Dastan-e-Shujaat" and "Humaree Shikast kee Kahani" has written that 4 Squadrons of PAF were not used in combat in 1971. Perhaps these are the same squadrons that you pointed out, the F-86 Mk6s that were kept in reserve.

Had these 4 reserve squadrons been sent to East Pakistan, the history may have been different. If air cover had been sustained and air superiority to India had been denied, its sure that surrender could have avoided and war could have been prologned till a cease-fire.

The PAF strength that was present in West Pakistan in 1965 was already bolstered by the arrival of Mirages from France. Now there was no need to keep F-6s also in West Pakistan. On the top of this, the 90 F-86 Mk6s were also retained in West Pakistan. Not only this but according to some authors a low-level radar was brought back from East Pakistan just before the 1971 war to West Pakistan. This only "facilitated" the things to come.

 

[chindit]

no need to get upset matey!

i try to rely on facts not fanboy stuff which we see a lot of!

You keep saying you rely on facts but have not posted anything that states what was wrong with the squadron listing. yet you resorted to the word 'fanboy'. refering to the paffalcon site. regardless of how much of a fanboy you should judge the post on the content. if its wrong, then tell which part of information is wrong

 

[chindit]

that you pointed out, the F-86 Mk6s that were kept in reserve.
.

IF these are the canadian sabres, then they flew during the war. the squadron in east was flying this version - correct me if I am wrong. some squadrons might be using them in the west as well.

Had these 4 reserve squadrons been sent to East Pakistan, the history may have been different. If air cover had been sustained and air superiority to India had been denied, its sure that surrender could have avoided and war could have been prologned till a cease-fire..

It would have made the airwar more interesting if there were five squadrons in the east. but my guess is there were not enough airfields. kurmitola was in construction. so that left dacca and chittagong. chittagong was too far.

Not only this but according to some authors a low-level radar was brought back from East Pakistan just before the 1971 war to West Pakistan. .

do you have any more information on this - i thought they already had a radar in east pakistan.

 

[chindit]

On a closer look

No 2 Sqn T-33
No 5 Sqn Mirage III
No 6 Sqn C-130?
No 7 Sqn B-57
No 9 Sqn Starfighter
No 11 Sqn Sabre
No 12 Sqn Transport
No 14 Sqn Sabre
No 15 Sqn Sabre
No 17 Sqn Sabre
No 18 Sqn Sabre
No 19 Sqn Sabre
No 20 Sqn T-33
No 23 Sqn F-6
No 25 Sqn F-6
No 26 Sqn F-6

All squadrons may have taken part in 71. which one of the above was kept in reserve? from my understanding all of them took part in teh war (maybe not the T-33s)

 

[fatman17]

On a closer look



All squadrons may have taken part in 71. which one of the above was kept in reserve? from my understanding all of them took part in teh war (maybe not the T-33s)

since u r the expert on the PAF - u win - i dont need to prove anything - i'm just a retd army guy - what do i know!

 

[chindit]

since u r the expert on the PAF - u win - i dont need to prove anything - i'm just a retd army guy - what do i know!

I am an expert 'googler'

 

[Muradk]

I am an expert 'googler'

Looks like you just wake up and say ok time to screw with
Don't read too much into google. Most armed forces including yours have not put stuff too what really happend. laugh all you want You will never know the truth.
And if you are trying to find out I don't think you will get anything from
Sir FATMAN , Shebazzi or someone like me. So keep on dreaming Boy.

 

[chindit]

Looks like you just wake up and say ok time to screw with
Don't read too much into google. Most armed forces including yours have not put stuff too what really happend. laugh all you want You will never know the truth.

the poster asked for PAF orbat. I posted the PAF orbat from pakistani site. fatman says its wrong but doesnt say whats wrong. instead starts dissing the website which is by a pakistani who seems to have put in some research effort in reading pakistani books and sources . yet fatman only disses him and does not offer an iota of correction. you tell me which post was helpful and which one wasnt. LOL you think that is screwing with your website?

the question was completely about pakistani air force. the answer was about the pakistani airforce and from a pakistani website. trust you to bring the IAF into it.

 

[fatman17]

the poster asked for PAF orbat. I posted the PAF orbat from pakistani site. fatman says its wrong but doesnt say whats wrong. instead starts dissing the website which is by a pakistani who seems to have put in some research effort in reading pakistani books and sources . yet fatman only disses him and does not offer an iota of correction. you tell me which post was helpful and which one wasnt. LOL you think that is screwing with your website?

the question was completely about pakistani air force. the answer was about the pakistani airforce and from a pakistani website. trust you to bring the IAF into it.

all i am saying is that these are just guesstimates so lets keep it at that. by the way i quoted a indian book which i felt was more "authentic" as it is available in all PAF libraries and therefore for good reason! all pakistanis cannot be right with due respect to pakfalcons!

 

[MastanKhan]

Inayatullah of Maktaba-e-Dastan publishers in Lahore, in his book "Pak Fizaya kee Dastan-e-Shujaat" and "Humaree Shikast kee Kahani" has written that 4 Squadrons of PAF were not used in combat in 1971. Perhaps these are the same squadrons that you pointed out, the F-86 Mk6s that were kept in reserve.

Had these 4 reserve squadrons been sent to East Pakistan, the history may have been different. If air cover had been sustained and air superiority to India had been denied, its sure that surrender could have avoided and war could have been prologned till a cease-fire.

The PAF strength that was present in West Pakistan in 1965 was already bolstered by the arrival of Mirages from France. Now there was no need to keep F-6s also in West Pakistan. On the top of this, the 90 F-86 Mk6s were also retained in West Pakistan. Not only this but according to some authors a low-level radar was brought back from East Pakistan just before the 1971 war to West Pakistan. This only "facilitated" the things to come.

Hi Shehbazi,


You talk about 4 sqdrns not committed----how about multiple tank brigades---possibly a division strength---hidden in the jungle right next to khanewal ( pirowal )---they were just sitting there---personal eye witness account---

Could these sqdrn's have taken part in the longewala battle---off-course---could these tanks and planes changed the battle outcome on the western front---!!!

 

[fatman17]

Hi Shehbazi,


You talk about 4 sqdrns not committed----how about multiple tank brigades---possibly a division strength---hidden in the jungle right next to khanewal ( pirowal )---they were just sitting there---personal eye witness account---

Could these sqdrn's have taken part in the longewala battle---off-course---could these tanks and planes changed the battle outcome on the western front---!!!

MK - the whole strike corps under gen.tikka just sat in their forward positions, chaffing to get into battle but alas, the high command did not feel the need or were too busy with other "niceties".

 

[Muradk]

MK - the whole strike corps under gen.tikka just sat in their forward positions, chaffing to get into battle but alas, the high command did not feel the need or were too busy with other "niceties".

sat in their forward positions, chaffing to get into battle but alas, the high command did not feel the need or were too busy with other "niceties".[/QUOTE]

In typical American words it was a Cluster F--- operation. If tikka would have told PAF that we are going to attack we would have send in our bombers that night and blow the **** out of that FOB where they had hunters which don't fly at night. Tho I have seen hunters flying in night. PAF told them that we can't give you GSC when the operation starts. Tikka thought it would be a piece of cake. If we would have just 2 F-86s we would have played hell into them because they were mostly students only the Sqd commander who came from
Mig 21 was experiences.
If the battle takes place now Al-Khalid would just wipe out the enemy and if the Indians bring in there Indian Tanks they wount stand a chance of survival against Al-Khalid , Six months back I had the opprotunity to drive one while driving we locked on 4 targets in night we fired one shot and the other 3 tanks locked on to the one I was in by Lazer and fired all 4 targets destroyed in 8 sec plus minus. And the best thing was we were at 30MPH. I don't know much about tanks Sir Fatman thats his department but I would like to say I didn't feel the recoil at all which is fantastic. The hardware I say in the tank was very impressive it looks like you are sitting in a big Video Arcade. Just like JF-17 Army wasn't expecting much but it turned out to be exceptionally good Weapon. The Nato Lt/Gen came to Paksitan and he wanted to see the tank, after looking in the tank he came out and said were did you get the technology from because its just like our US Tank ABR.

 

[blain2]

On a closer look



All squadrons may have taken part in 71. which one of the above was kept in reserve? from my understanding all of them took part in teh war (maybe not the T-33s)

4 sqns were held in reserve in West Pakistan. This is a fact that has been attested to in the official history of the PAF as well as a few other interviews and books of military personnel involved in the 1971 war. The idea was to be able to provide support to the offensive that the PA was suppose to go on but never did.

A very good, detailed write up about this is in the book "The unlikely beginnings" by Maj Gen Abubakr Mitha (Oxford Press). In the book the author, who was QMG Pakistan Army, mentions having discussions with a former DCAS, Operations (PAF) who had been very closely involved in the planning and conduct of air ops during the 1971 war, who told Mitha that PAF knew that in order to preserve the aircraft and pilots in anticipation of the Army operation, they decided to hold back 4 sqns form participating in active operations. I can't tell you which ones these were as that level of information was never disclosed to Maj Gen Abubakr Mitha. But these were all fighter/bomber sqns.

 

[ejaz007]

the poster asked for PAF orbat. I posted the PAF orbat from pakistani site. fatman says its wrong but doesnt say whats wrong. instead starts dissing the website which is by a pakistani who seems to have put in some research effort in reading pakistani books and sources . yet fatman only disses him and does not offer an iota of correction. you tell me which post was helpful and which one wasnt. LOL you think that is screwing with your website?

the question was completely about pakistani air force. the answer was about the pakistani airforce and from a pakistani website. trust you to bring the IAF into it.

As advise by Murad Sb. don't believe every thing you hear or read. Unfortunately a lot has been written about PAF/IAF by both nations writers where patriotism took over and complete facts were neither investigated nor correctly presented. It is difficult to differentiate between facts and fiction.

There is a lot that needs to be understood about both nations air forces and hopefully actual people who participated in the wars would reveal them slowly.

I knew the order of battle of PAF during both wars however wanted a reconfirmation from right people so that before writing any thing I should have back up to prove.

I am grateful to Fatman17, Sehbazi2001 and Muradk Sb.

 

[chindit]

4 sqns were held in reserve in West Pakistan. This is a fact that has been attested to in the official history of the PAF as well as a few other interviews and books of military personnel involved in the 1971 war. The idea was to be able to provide support to the offensive that the PA was suppose to go on but never did.

they decided to hold back 4 sqns form participating in active operations. I can't tell you which ones these were as that level of information was never disclosed to Maj Gen Abubakr Mitha. But these were all fighter/bomber sqns.

thanks . it would be nice to know which units were kept aside. but I guess thats for another day.