PAF ‘OPS SWIFT RETORT’ and the effectiveness of air power

[The Accountant]

The best thing in PAF's strategy, which I like and admire is the self reliant, gradually achieved.
JF 17 paying dividends. Despite being limited compared to some heavy weights in the division, it is performing well, on low budget and cost.
Development of 5th Generation jet home made/Chinese help would further enhanced the capabilities.
While Indians would still be concentrating and procuring very expensive imports.

Let's there be no doubts, in the shape of Su30s they already had a very potent force. Butt what come off it!!
They have to withdraw their prize possessions from the border areas.

Therefore, from the evidence and history, the fate of Rafale wouldn't be any different than Su 30s.
As the evidence goes, JF 17 III would have comparable radar and other technical capabilities. The only thing it would lack compared to Rafale is probably the top speed of Rafale 2,223 km/hr to JF 17 1,960 km/hr, unless JF 17 III would be faster.
That's why I like the beast F 15 Eagle with 3,107 km/hr speed, I wish we had acquired some of these beast from the USA when we had good relations with them. We didn't use Uncle Sam intelligently at the time, rather always acted little bit in awe of it.

Speed is not the decisive factor modern warfare ... its the information data and sensor fusion ... you see first you kill first

 

[SQ8]

Are you saying that there are cowards in our ranks? If so thats quite damning considering we are hanging by a thread as it is !

There are human beings- people who aren’t all ready for death or loss.

 

[PakAlp]

Would u have pitched Jf 17 block 1 or 2 against and su30 mki and said it would win. After the 27th Feb the Indians dare not come. So it's not just the machine but man behind the machine. Morale courage and knowing your weapon system. PAF will inshallah take take care of Rafael just like it did migs 22 and su 30mki

As faar as my reading goes on PDF. We always thought the jf17 block 1 and block 2 are only to replace our older jets like Mirage and F7s and they would be good against defending pak air space from threats like Mirage2000, Tejas and Mig21.

We couldn't imagine the jf17 2 would be able to handle the beast su30mki. Even Indians Modi stated if we had Rafael then we would have dominated Pakistan. But what about the 280 MKIs? About a decade ago we thought su30mki would be very difficult for the block 2 to deal with. This proves Jf17 block 2 carries good technology.

The only way to deal with the su30mki was to get the f16 block 52 involved. This was our counter. But Feb 27th proved that block 2 is a good system against all of Indian airforce. Now we don't even mention the su30mki.

I would however say that Pakistan does need an air superiority fighter jet but as discussed many times we cannot afford it. We couldnt afford brand new block 52s never mind a complete new system.

I am hoping as much as many PDF members that jf17 block 3 will be a high tech fighter jet that can handle the Rafael. Can the light fighter Saab gripen defend against the Rafael? If so then Block 3 can do that same and I am hoping since it's taking 4+ year for its first flight then the Chinese must be giving us some high tech specs.

If we say that Chinese technology is not good enough against the west then I would say what has China got that can defend against Rafael threat? J10B is Chinese technology, su30 is Russian, J16 is russian/Chinese mixed. Su35 is in small numbers and also a 4th generation fighter jet. J20 is a new technology and it's all Chinese again. Plus it's still not fully operational. It's like the J10A when it came out. It took another decade for China to make it in to a top tech plane. J20 will take some time. Design will change. Just like J10A to J10B.

So we have to face the reality that Pakistan has only JF17 block 3 to look forward to and make it in to a great fighter jet. Then wait till the 5th generation comes out in a decade or so.

Our airforce and military did a good job to give a befitting reply to the Indians. Let's us think positive and move on. Learn new tactics, bring in Jf17 block 3, start the 5th generation fighter jet program.

Our economy situation is an another story.

 

[PakAlp]

Hi,

The JF17 or any other aircraft of the 4th or 4.5 gen category is nothing by itself---but by the package and support group that it flies under---.

Secondly---the SU30 is a known product---the JF17---others don't know much about it---and what they know is that has been leaked thru general sources---.

Now one has to understand what a JF17 Blk2 is---it is basically a Grippen D and the F16 somewhere around BLK52 but with a more potent BVR missile.

What makes up for the aircraft if there is any shortcoming is the supporting assets of air battle group---.

Remember---you go to war with what you have---and you plan and you train and you train and you plan and you do that over and over again and again for your chicken little to beat up the master blaster---.

And in that department---the JF17 is no slouch---.

In your opinion would you say the Gripen D will be a good system against the Rafael?

 

[PakAlp]

Hi,

No---why---it would be the Grippen E and that is where we are headed---. The BLK 3 would be equivalent to the Grippen E---just wait and see---.

Good point. If Gripen E a light fighter jet with the best technology inside it can take on the Rafael then so can the Jf17 block 3 with the best technology inside it. Paf must be planning for the same. Make Jf17 block 3 in to a deadly fighter which will save us money and then get the 5th generation planes. Also the Chinese technology is expanding at a rapid pace. We introduced Jf17 block 2 around 2007 time and it has been 13years since. I am sure the Chinese and Pakistani must be planning for something good. It's already been 4+ years since the serious talk on block 3 began and also February 27th happens and on top the Rafael threat.

I wouldn't be disheartened if paf delays the block 3 until Rafael is introduced as paf would have more time to test the new Chinese systems and maybe it's better to wait a few more years for the new top Chinese technology to mature.

 

[Arsalan 345]

I read above comments and it looks like we are worried about rafale.i think rafale is a good fighter but we should counter meteor missile and we should integrate either pl-15 or ramjet pl-12d.i prefer ramjet pl12-d.we need better aesa radar.we can defeat rafale with our jf-17 but integration will take time and we don't have money to buy new fighter jets like gripen.i like gripen but I think we should focus on jf-17.

 

[khanasifm]

 

[The Accountant]

I read above comments and it looks like we are worried about rafale.i think rafale is a good fighter but we should counter meteor missile and we should integrate either pl-15 or ramjet pl-12d.i prefer ramjet pl12-d.we need better aesa radar.we can defeat rafale with our jf-17 but integration will take time and we don't have money to buy new fighter jets like gripen.i like gripen but I think we should focus on jf-17.

I dont think China is producing any Ramjet powered missile ... PL12 is SD10 and it has only B version in production

Furthermore, concept of Grippen and Thunder are same so Thunder is supposed to provide same capabilities as of Grippen

 

[PakAlp]

I dont think China is producing any Ramjet powered missile ... PL12 is SD10 and it has only B version in production

Furthermore, concept of Grippen and Thunder are same so Thunder is supposed to provide same capabilities as of Grippen

Isn't pl21 Ramjet?

 

[HawkEye27]

Isn't pl21 Ramjet?

Dual Thrust Rocket Motor and the large size results in the greater range of PL-15.

Also a reliable ramjet system is way too costly. A single Meteor is 2 million dollar piece. Whereas SD-10/C5 are even less than half of it

 

[The Accountant]

Isn't pl21 Ramjet?

My bad yes PL21 is Ramjet powered but it is not yet integrated to any aircraft even in China except for J16 ... J31 and J20 are still not entered mass production therefore not deployed and doesn't count

 

[War Thunder]

We must be people of intellect and not of blind faith. How exactly is pitching Block 3s against Rafales going to do that? Would prefer a reasoned argument over a one liner.

Just like it did on 27th?
SU-30MKI was supposedly a mini AWACS and could mow the lawn with everything PAF could throw at it. Where is it now?
So will Rafaele come, get owned and they will want some alien warship next.

 

[The Accountant]

Dual Thrust Rocket Motor and the large size results in the greater range of PL-15.

Also a reliable ramjet system is way too costly. A single Meteor is 2 million dollar piece. Whereas SD-10/C5 are even less than half of it

even cheaper

 

[loanranger]

And loan ranger seriously you made another childish statement ... cowards? Hanging by the thread?

First of all I donot make childish statements.
Learn some Grammar.
I would never call PAF coward. I was questioning what oscar was hinting which I found completely absurd.

 

[Flight of falcon]

First of all I donot make childish statements.
Learn some Grammar.
I would never call PAF coward. I was questioning what oscar was hinting which I found completely absurd.

Sure LOAN ranger or is it LONE ranger ?