PAF locked on 9 shoot only two...PAF official....0n 27 Feb....

[Sugarcane]

Hindustan found their short comings at very cheap price, These weak points could have been disaster in case of all out war - I think IAF will be thanking PAF for giving precious tips for improvement at cost of 1/2 jets and a chopper.

 

[Mentee]

Its called the price of independence. Your sarcasm is pointing towards a deeper problem inside you.

I don't need ganday tamatar money to sustain my life style. The deeper problem is my conscience which many don't bother to listen to. I don't like this status quo which only revolves around the civilized amenities of handful of a people in some select few cities.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Even if one accepts it as true for a single second, Fact is there were zero chances of missiles hitting Su-30s as both had carried out evasive manuevers after 1st AIM-120 got fired and carried out a successful high speed exit to a safe zone.
Both also dived behind Pir Panjal range to reduce visibility on radar scope.
More importantly, They were well out of effective range of AMRAAMs at tail chase.
Even the intial enagement occured at 60km where AMRAAM had zero chance of hitting a highly maueverable jet like Su-30 since NEZ of AMRAAM is only 25 km.

Same for the Mirage 2000s too.

Only danger was to obsolete 4 MiG-21s.

 

[Aasimkhan]

I don't need ganday tamatar money to sustain my life style. The deeper problem is my conscience which many don't bother to listen to. I don't like this status quo which only revolves around the civilized amenities of handful of a people in some select few cities.

What does it have to do with India or PAF? dont mix your internal insecurity with Indo-Pak scenario.

Even if one accepts it as true for a single second, Fact is there were zero chances of missiles hitting Su-30s as both had carried out evasive manuevers after 1st AIM-120 got fired and carried out a successful high speed exit to a safe zone.
Both also dived behind Pir Panjal range to reduce visibility on radar scope.
More importantly, They were well out of effective range of AMRAAMs at tail chase.
Even the intial enagement occured at 60km where AMRAAM had zero chance of hitting a highly maueverable jet like Su-30 since NEZ of AMRAAM is only 25 km.

Same for the Mirage 2000s too.

Only danger was to obsolete 4 MiG-21s.

Your analysis is misleading due to following reasons:
1. Evasive maneuver does not reduce the chances of a hit to zero.
2. AMRAAMs were intentionally fired at longer ranges to keep the SU30 out of the battle.
3. Mig 21 and Mirage 2000 both are almost equally vulnerable to missiles as both have similar speed and radar signature. SU 30 is different because it is super maneuverable.

 

[Mighty Lion]

IAF SOPs for any engagement where own jet is outnumbered 4 times or more by enemy jets (same gen) strictly calls to bug out and not foolishly put own aircraft in danger.
Both Su30 & Mirage 2000 pilots followed SOPs well, Since they were outnumbered 6:1 (PAF has 12 F-16 & 4 JF-17 as OCA and 6 JF-17 as fighter escorts whereas IAF had only 2 Su-30 & 2 M2000 in area).

 

[Mentee]

What does it have to do with India or PAF? dont mix your internal insecurity with Indo-Pak scenario.

Pick your enemies wisely! If you have an enemy you devise ways to defeat it by hook or crook and not proceed with this half backed approach. We've had a social contract with the state of Pakistan not with Lahore or Karachi. And India seems to be the perfect boogie man for the haves to steal our money and spend it on their mental gymnastics of a development programs in you know where.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Pick your enemies wisely! If you have an enemy you devise ways to defeat it by hook or crook and not proceed with this half backed approach. We've had a social contract with the state of Pakistan not with Lahore or Karachi. And India seems to be the perfect boogie man for the haves to steal our money and spend it on their mental gymnastics of a development programs in you know where.

Some times your enemy picks you. India, especially under Modi has picked Muslims. He wants to kill you for not what you have done but who you are. You are exactly speaking the language of RAW/CIA paid agents who want to push this idea through the throats of Pakistani population that India has been created as a boogie to usurp 90% budget which is factually wrong. I could see the germs of this infection in your previous posts but this time you have come out openly.

 

[Mentee]

Some times your enemy picks you. India, especially under Modi has picked Muslims. He wants to kill you for not what you have done but who you are. You are exactly speaking the language of RAW/CIA paid agents who want to push this idea through the throats of Pakistani population that India has been created as a boogie to usurp 90% budget which is factually wrong. I could see the germs of this infection in your previous posts but this time you have come out openly.

**** you for calling a guy Trojan horse just coz he's asking for the due share to be given to the common man.


I didn't say nothing to trigger your lil patriotic complexes. My problem is not with the military but with the political elite which every time asks us to look the other way when chol wandi dy are being distributed. Let's forget about the universities, health and other public facilities across Pakistan Just tell me how many traffic lights are in working condition out there in other cities other than Lahore and Karachi ?

 

[TheTallGuy]

Tell me something, you want Pakistan Military to go on an "All out attack" on hindustan, to shut these weasels up, am I correct? Shoot down 9 of iaf's cockroaches outta the sky, to send a clear message to them, correct?

And what if those retards across the border actually open up a full blown war on Pakistan, in response. How united are Pakistanis in reality, for us to be able to stand with our military and government to fight the enemy? How robust is our economy? You can't even control the supply of wheat, sugar and kerosene with those traitors, thieves and thug mafias running amok. You really think that Pakistani people are in a position to fight a full blown war? Get real will ya!!!

Effective response is measured and calculated, not running out firing your AK-47 like you're hitting pinatas.

First unite the nation, incarcerate all mafias and political criminals ... then we can talk about "hitting the indians hard." All sounds dandy but when you have traitors, murderers, mafias and jahils damaging Pakistan's economy, reputation and integrity, none of what you or others bravado really has any weight to it.

We can always agree to disagree..but rest assured No economy can develop and grow under existential threat...it simple as that...to become Eco-Fool at a time when you have a neighbor who is following Nazi Germany...who are you fooling? no matter what Economy under existential threat does not boom or develop..

please we can see the world history...heck read Islamic history...read ...history of Madina (City State) & our Holy prophet S.A.W when his highness established State of Medina what did he do? did he follow appeasement of Mushrikeen of Mecca? they were in Higher number well equipped could cause annilation of Medina as a state...and economy of madina was dependent upon trade which they could not compete with meccans.....did he adjusted first to seek economical well being of madina or stand on ground at Badr with 313 men..

Again I repeat...There is no middle ground..

Even if one accepts it as true for a single second, Fact is there were zero chances of missiles hitting Su-30s as both had carried out evasive manuevers after 1st AIM-120 got fired and carried out a successful high speed exit to a safe zone.
Both also dived behind Pir Panjal range to reduce visibility on radar scope.
More importantly, They were well out of effective range of AMRAAMs at tail chase.
Even the intial enagement occured at 60km where AMRAAM had zero chance of hitting a highly maueverable jet like Su-30 since NEZ of AMRAAM is only 25 km.

Same for the Mirage 2000s too.

Only danger was to obsolete 4 MiG-21s.

Su-30MKI were operatinng at Optimal altitude of 42-45k for better utilization of BARS and deep search since you said pir panjal range obscure the view ...does it make sense to you to fly low or med for CAP?

By the way...Su-30MKIs would have known they are under attack only 15-12 seconds before impact...now understand what would pilot do? fly straight or start pushing hard maneuvers....to evade...

You are underestimating AIM120C5 range and NEZ

IAF SOPs for any engagement where own jet is outnumbered 4 times or more by enemy jets (same gen) strictly calls to bug out and not foolishly put own aircraft in danger.
Both Su30 & Mirage 2000 pilots followed SOPs well, Since they were outnumbered 6:1 (PAF has 12 F-16 & 4 JF-17 as OCA and 6 JF-17 as fighter escorts whereas IAF had only 2 Su-30 & 2 M2000 in area).

What are you talking about? SOP? 6:1 odds sit or run away....do not engage...Stop insulting IAF its a professional air force with extremely good pilots and equipment.

What kind of a person throws his country Air force under the bus ....shades of Nazi Modi..

 

[diligence]

Even if one accepts it as true for a single second, Fact is there were zero chances of missiles hitting Su-30s as both had carried out evasive manuevers after 1st AIM-120 got fired and carried out a successful high speed exit to a safe zone.
Both also dived behind Pir Panjal range to reduce visibility on radar scope.
More importantly, They were well out of effective range of AMRAAMs at tail chase.
Even the intial enagement occured at 60km where AMRAAM had zero chance of hitting a highly maueverable jet like Su-30 since NEZ of AMRAAM is only 25 km.

Same for the Mirage 2000s too.

Only danger was to obsolete 4 MiG-21s.

Keyboard warriors just wasting their time on proving or negating the claim of SU-30 shooting down on 27/2. As I understand, we don't have any evidence available in public domain to support that claim. DG ISPR, however, has said it multiple times that downing of two Indian planes saw the whole world. I assume he was talking about the confidential evidence provided to higher ups in friendly air forces across the world or may be to foreign defense attache's in Islamabad. So, why we are trying to prove or disprove the claim of shooting down of an MKI? I have not seen a single senior member on the PDF getting tangled into this silly debate. Only useless keyboard worriers.

 

[Mentee]

Tell me something, you want Pakistan Military to go on an "All out attack" on hindustan, to shut these weasels up, am I correct? Shoot down 9 of iaf's cockroaches outta the sky, to send a clear message to them, correct?

And what if those retards across the border actually open up a full blown war on Pakistan, in response. How united are Pakistanis in reality,

One of the many reasons I propose to make friends with India

 

[Mighty Lion]

Su-30MKI were operatinng at Optimal altitude of 42-45k for better utilization of BARS and deep search since you said pir panjal range obscure the view ...does it make sense to you to fly low or med for CAP?

By the way...Su-30MKIs would have known they are under attack only 15-12 seconds before impact...now understand what would pilot do? fly straight or start pushing hard maneuvers....to evade...

You are underestimating AIM120C5 range and NEZ

They were actually at 25k feet and were over Reasi.

Su-30 RWR knew about lock even before fox-3 brevity code was announced and immediately took evasive measures.

You are overestimating c5 range and NEZ

 

[crankthatskunk]

im seriously tired of these fanboys pretending to be arm chair general. this needs to stop!
IAF trains with IDAF Singapore AF F-16s, IAF already uses SAAB Radar for its awac similar but more advance to PAF saab-2000, and as for Falcon EW well lets just say with much bigger defence cooperation between India nd France its likely to assume that the frenchies have already shared inside and out information about its capabilities.
so no, PAF did not provide anything new information then what IAF already was aware of.

Problem is, for expressing such sentiments, many times my posts, which were in response, deleted and I had been banned from taking part in the threads. I was even denied access to the thread about Boris Johnson long record of some racists and other inappropriate public comments, which are highly disliked in the UK, where I happened to be a citizen. It seems this site and its administrators have a very big bias towards some people.
I am sure my this post would be deleted as "not contributed to the thread", the excuse given previously on many occasions.
I have said repeatedly, few people here exaggerate beyond acceptable. Also, there are lots of PA fanboys here, who don't like to hear the truth. @MastanKhan, those telling the truth are treated badly by the moderators. We can clearly see who pull the strings here. The sad thing is we are not learning from history. Even though I am not a Pakistani national, but I love Pakistan and more loyal to her than most "Loyal" I have seen.

 

[Mighty Lion]

assume he was talking about the confidential evidence provided to higher ups in friendly air forces across the world or may be to foreign defense attache's in Islamabad.

NO such evidence provided.

 

[Mentee]

. Also, there are lots of PA fanboys here, who don't like to hear the truth. @MastanKhan, those telling the truth are treated badly by the moderators. We can clearly see who pull the strings here. The sad thing is we are not learning from history. Even though I am not a Pakistani national, but I love Pakistan and more loyal to her than most "Loyal" I have seen.

Sir the mods have to run a forum so they give every one a breathing space. It's like deliberately down playing but accommodating the conflicting views simultaneously

NO such evidence provided.

To silent poison