PAF in Libya during US confrontation

[Ghostwhowalks]

Nonsense, we don't need some internet warrior to advise us, just look at your own conflicting if not hypocrite statement, on one side you claim that when did the military ever listened to the politicians and yet here you are giving credit to the civilian leadership for taking the decision, as they say, never box above your weight and leave these matters to those who understand them accordingly.

Lol....the question of hypocrisy will arise only if your AVM actually made that statement....which so far only has your post claiming it as proof.

As someone who is married to a fighter pilot and has spent a good part of her adult life on fighter bases, both in a personal and professional capacity, I believe I do know a thing or two about air warfare.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Then the question arises- Why didn't Pakistan shoot down the US choppers? Like I said earlier, you should be grateful your political leaders acted sanely. else it would have meant RIP PAF.

Do you honestly think that the US, which so blatantly acts unilaterally and regularly violates Pakistan's sovereignty with impunity, would give two hoots about legalities if a Pakistani jet or SAM shot down its chopper and killed its soldiers. Mere presence of OBL in Abbotabad would have given them all the justification to attack Pakistan, leave alone added provocation of shooting down their chopper.

Why Pakistan did or did not do something is not the point - I'm merely highlighting the fact that the US military operation in Abbottabad, if conducted without explicit authorization from the Pakistani government, was a violation of international law, illegal, a military provocation and potentially an un-provoked act of war.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In case PAF had really intercepted and brought the choppers down, you would have a CBG at Karachi port with missiles raining down on all your cities.

No, would not have happened.

Any significant degradation of Pakistan's military capability by the US (especially over completely justified defensive military action by Pakistan against unprovoked US military aggression in Pakistani territory) would bring up the specter of a subsequent Indian military invasion of Pakistani and Pakistani controlled territory, which would be a crossing of Pakistan's nuclear threshold. Since Pakistan's existential threat is from India, the target and recipient (of a nuclear attack by Pakistan) in this case would also be India.

Unless the US was looking to cause a nuclear war between India and Pakistan, any US response (if any) to the PAF shooting down the choppers involved in the Abbottabad raid would be proportional and extremely limited. Keep in mind that without the mission being completed, the US would have had little to no evidence that OBL was even in Abbottabad, and would have been hard pressed to criticize ANY military response by Pakistan against its raiding team under international law.

 

[Hell hound]

real question is what was usama doing in abbottabad? and if operation was conducted with our consent as claimed by many members here it mean we knew he was there.why didn't we conducted a joint or solo operation on our own?why seal team 6 was the only one doing the operation?if we were in the loop why shakil afridi was arrested?
@Bilal Khan 777 @araz @Windjammer

 

[SQ8]

Who are you? Voice of America trying to scare Pakistan? For the helicopter gunship incident, kindly research what happened afterwords. Stop the "OMG you don't how strong US is and they will pummel you" Pakistan is not Iraq, or Libya, and all our adversaries, current and future, know the stakes.

An Indian in Singapore pretending to be anything else.
No one else would be this cynical and filled with vile thoughts about Pakistan.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Just showing you guys a mirror. For once admit that your civilian leadership did the right thing. Whether your AVM made the purported statement or not is debatable in the absence of proof, but if he did then thank your stars it was not acted upon.

Discretion is the better part of valour at times

I can deflate your balloon in a minute but would not proceed to your level. BR.

real question is what was usama doing in abbottabad? and if operation was conducted with our consent as claimed by many members here it mean we knew he was there.why didn't we conducted a joint or solo operation on our own?why seal team 6 was the only one doing the operation?if we were in the loop why shakil afridi was arrested?
@Bilal Khan 777 @araz @Windjammer

Lets no go down any further on the OBL affair.

 

[MastanKhan]

real question is what was usama doing in abbottabad? and if operation was conducted with our consent as claimed by many members here it mean we knew he was there.why didn't we conducted a joint or solo operation on our own?why seal team 6 was the only one doing the operation?if we were in the loop why shakil afridi was arrested?
@Bilal Khan 777 @araz @Windjammer

Hi,

The question that always need to asked is---why did the U S let Osama escape afghanistan.

That was the basic fundamental deceit---. He was the very reason that the U S invaded afghanistan---.

They let the main culprit escape multiple times and then the american military got busy in the murder of muslims.

Hasn't stopped since then---almost 4 million muslims executed---and over 40---50 million muslims homeless due to the atrocities started and committed by the U S military and its lackeys.

That is what is needed to be addressed---everything else is chump change.

Lol....the question of hypocrisy will arise only if your AVM actually made that statement....which so far only has your post claiming it as proof.

As someone who is married to a fighter pilot and has spent a good part of her adult life on fighter bases, both in a personal and professional capacity, I believe I do know a thing or two about air warfare.

Hi,

You need to stop stirring up sh-it---PLEASE. The AVM made those statements---.

That AVM was supposedly to be the air chief of pakistan air force---but the pakistani president chickened out under the U S pressure and installed another person.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

The question that always need to asked is---why did the U S let Osama escape afghanistan.

That was the basic fundamental deceit---. He was the very reason that the U S invaded afghanistan---.

They let the main culprit escape multiple times and then the american military got busy in the murder of muslims.

Hasn't stopped since then---almost 4 million muslims executed---and over 40---50 million muslims homeless due to the atrocities started and committed by the U S military and its lackeys.

That is what is needed to be addressed---everything else is chump change.



Hi,

You need to stop stirring up sh-it---PLEASE. The AVM made those statements---.

That AVM was supposedly to be the air chief of pakistan air force---but the pakistani president chickened out under the U S pressure and installed another person.

It is just like---I have made a statement here long time ago---I am the person responsible for stopping the leakage of information coming out regarding the JF17's a few years ago---I contacted a resource and told to them to take charge---and right away---the leakage stopped.

So---if someone asks me what proof do I have---I got none---but I know what I did---and what happened right away---.

I go back to the american saying---' you have to take the butcher's word---you cannot stick your head up the bull's ar-se to find out if the steak is good '.

i agree with all your points everyone has skeletons in his closets usa is no exception. i am here because of my curiosity not to criticize anyone. osama case is like a puzzles whose pieces don't fit. i just want to know your points of view and reasons for thinking that we knew about osama before the attack.and if we knew then why didn't we act on the info.was we afraid of mullah back lash or deterioration of the relation with afghan taliban. why did we chose to become ultimate bad country and destroyed our image when we knew where he was.

 

[MastanKhan]

i agree with all your points everyone has skeletons in his closets usa is no exception. i am here because of my curiosity not to criticize anyone. osama case is like a puzzles whose pieces don't fit. i just want to know your points of view and reasons for thinking that we knew about osama before the attack.and if we knew then why didn't we act on the info.was we afraid of mullah back lash or deterioration of the relation with afghan taliban. why did we chose to become ultimate bad country and destroyed our image when we knew where he was.

Hi,

Osama played by the U S intel agencies playbook---hide right in the middle of the populace---that is what the americans taught their operatives during the cold war who would be in foreign countries---Osama did no different.

He survived for the longest due to lack of technology---and got caught as well due to technology---when the phone number of one of his couriers was tracked by pak intel agy's---and as they did not have sophisticated equipment---they transfered that info to the americans.

For the Osama fiasco---the biggest blame I would put on would be the pakistani public---basically pakistani public is responsible for the terrorism that has taken place in pakistan.

The public should have forced the govt to take out Osama when he escaped from Tora Bora---they should have known from day one that Osama has no conscience---that he was a despicanle human being---a kind of human being who brought total death and destruction over the muslim nation of afghanistan.

If Osama had an iota of character left in him---he woul have asked one of his followers to execute him before the american christian army invaded a muslim nation.

But that scum---ran away---found a refuge and then in his old age marries a 16 years old bride while the muslims of the world are dying at the hand of the christian armies of the world.

Just look at the charcater of this scumbag that the muslims of the world had praise for---.

About the raid---what general would admit in public that he has been humiliated because his flanks have been breached---unless it was a drama---.

That is what Gen Kiyani did publicly---exclaiming a surprise. If you dig into the technicalities of the raid---it is simply not possible.

Then to top it off---the destruction of the american helicopter---and then to top it off further---a chinook coming to take the remaining americans from Osama's house after 45 minutes when the first helicopter left.

And no one from that supposed ' the west point of pakistan ' came to look into what had happened.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

Osama played by the U S intel agencies playbook---hide right in the middle of the populace---that is what the americans taught their operatives during the cold war who would be in foreign countries---Osama did no different.

He survived for the longest due to lack of technology---and got caught as well due to technology---when the phone number of one of his couriers was tracked by pak intel agy's---and as they did not have sophisticated equipment---they transfered that info to the americans.

For the Osama fiasco---the biggest blame I would put on would be the pakistani public---basically pakistani public is responsible for the terrorism that has taken place in pakistan.

The public should have forced the govt to take out Osama when he escaped from Tora Bora---they should have known from day one that Osama has no conscience---that he was a despicanle human being---a kind of human being who brought total death and destruction over the muslim nation of afghanistan.

If Osama had an iota of character left in him---he woul have asked one of his followers to execute him before the american christian army invaded a muslim nation.

But that scum---ran away---found a refuge and then in his old age marries a 16 years old bride while the muslims of the world are dying at the hand of the christian armies of the world.

Just look at the charcater of this scumbag that the muslims of the world had praise for---.

About the raid---what general would admit in public that he has been humiliated because his flanks have been breached---unless it was a drama---.

That is what Gen Kiyani did publicly---exclaiming a surprise. If you dig into the technicalities of the raid---it is simply not possible.

Then to top it off---the destruction of the american helicopter---and then to top it off further---a chinook coming to take the remaining americans from Osama's house after 45 minutes when the first helicopter left.

And no one from that supposed ' the west point of pakistan ' came to look into what had happened.

we would have gain alot had we openly told the world that the operation was a joint one not a solo as american claim. why didn't we do that.and to top it off we arrested shakil afridi to confirm world suspicion that we are OBL's sympathizers (true or a lie it doesn't matter to them)

 

[Falcon26]

we would have gain alot had we openly told the world that the operation was a joint one not a solo as american claim. why didn't we do that.and to top it off we arrested shakil afridi to confirm world suspicion that we are OBL's sympathizers (true or a lie it doesn't matter to them)

One thing I have noticed about Pakistanis is that they are very conspiratorial, hence exaggerated claims such as these. The Pakistani military and civilian government were caught with their pants down during the OBL raid as they were in the killing of Mullah Mansour. The Americans even had to wait for the Taliban chief to cross the Iranian border before they could unleash their weapons. Yet on this forum we have senior members with ostrich syndrome making tall claims that no US operation can take place without Pakistan's permission. Never mind the treatment of Dr Afridi and the finding of the Abottabad commission.

One begins to wonder if both the Pakistani establishment & citizens are just a bunch of sadists that enjoy humiliation & diplomatic rebuke and sanctions.

 

[MastanKhan]

One thing I have noticed about Pakistanis is that they are very conspiratorial, hence exaggerated claims such as these. The Pakistani military and civilian government were caught with their pants down during the OBL raid as they were in the killing of Mullah Mansour. The Americans even had to wait for the Taliban chief to cross the Iranian border before they could unleash their weapons. Yet on this forum we have senior members with ostrich syndrome making tall claims that no US operation can take place without Pakistan's permission. Never mind the treatment of Dr Afridi and the finding of the Abottabad commission.

One begins to wonder if both the Pakistani establishment & citizens are just a bunch of safists that enjoy humiliation & diplomatic rebuke and sanctions.

Sir,

Welcome to the forum---. My statement has been made on this forum long before Seymour Hersch made his statements---actually years before---and that is on record---.

As for the U S making intrusion into pakistan---the way events transpired and the time line of the events simply negates the U S version---and that also being 1 mile away from the pakistani west point---.

City lights go off conveniently 1 /2 hour before the raid---helicopter crashes---massive fir---no one shows up---city has fire brigade and other police and anti terrorists force---then massive explosions when dentonators go off destroying the chopper---massive fires---then a slow mover chinook comes after 45 minutes of the explosions to take away the remaining U S troops---multiple refuelling stops---.

The americans recently grew and itch against pakistan---that is why they stupidly assasinated Mullah Mansour---now things have gone more out of control in afg---Mullah Mansour was the only sane Taliban leader---.

Now with Turkey out of control---the U S had to shut its mouth bad mouthing pakistan---and to top that----Gwadar port---with a chinese military---air and naval base at gwadar---how the U S fcks up regarding pakistan----only the americans can do that.

 

[Hell hound]

One thing I have noticed about Pakistanis is that they are very conspiratorial, hence exaggerated claims such as these. The Pakistani military and civilian government were caught with their pants down during the OBL raid as they were in the killing of Mullah Mansour. The Americans even had to wait for the Taliban chief to cross the Iranian border before they could unleash their weapons. Yet on this forum we have senior members with ostrich syndrome making tall claims that no US operation can take place without Pakistan's permission. Never mind the treatment of Dr Afridi and the finding of the Abottabad commission.

One begins to wonder if both the Pakistani establishment & citizens are just a bunch of sadists that enjoy humiliation & diplomatic rebuke and sanctions.

i was trying to make sense for the OBL incident for that matter i have to listen to the both side of the story.call them conspiratorial or whatever you want but they are the other side and i need their point of view to make sense off this incident.
as for calling us sadist look at you presidential candidates and then tell us which country is more stupid arrogant and ignorant.
we don't enjoy sanctions and humiliations as per your claim that's why we are diversifying our supplier and customers.hence minimizing usa influence on Pakistan.and before you say i am not the mullah type who chant death to murica all day. i know we need you guys and know the exact price we are willing to pay for that relation nothing more nothing less but we also know to what extent you need us and will milk you every bit we can for that.

 

[Falcon26]

i was trying to make sense for the OBL incident for that matter i have listen to the both side of the story.call them conspiratorial or whatever you want but they are the other side and i need their point of view to make sense off this incident.
as for calling us sadist look at you presidential candidates and then tell us which country is more stupid arrogant and ignorant.
we don't enjoy sanctions and humiliations as per your claim that's why we are diversifying our supplier and customers.hence minimizing usa influence on Pakistan.and before you say i am not the mullah type who chant death to murica all day. i know we need you guys and know the exact price we are willing to pay for that relation nothing more nothing less but we also know to what extent you need us and will milk you every bit we can for that.

My comment wasn't directed at you but to the person you quoted. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[LeGenD]

It will always remain an opinion, while you believe the facts you can find in pop media.

Sorry.

Your point, without evidence, is an "opinion."

I didn't cite information from MTV or a Music Channel. Learn the meaning of pop media first.

You can consult/read Abbottabad Commission Report, if you don't believe me.