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PAF female pilot embraced Shahadat as plane crashed

Rest in peace you brave daughter of the nation. You broke the cultural barriers and challenged the traditions and dared what few thought about at that time. You made us proud and gave new direction to millions of other daughters. May Allah grant you eternal peace and tranquility.
 
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Hi,

The F7PG is not a bad aircraft. It has a good history of flight with paf. At LO Lo altitude and high speed---any problem with the aircraft and you eat dirt.

Then @Indus Falcon @Khafee @gambit can explain how difficult it is to eject at low altitude and any error in ejecting could be fatal because of lack of time for recovery.

These gentlemen can also explain the forces being applied on the body during ejection from the aircraft---and how much force a female body can handle as compared to a male counterpart.

It would also be interesting to find out if any way possible----when there is an ejection of pilot and copilot flying in tandem----what is the rate of fatality for each.

The bottomline is that we are used to men dying during training for combat---. We will have to learn these new emotions now for women.
 
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I take it you want to get me banned again! Khair! Bringing in efficiency to make every rupee go further doesn't make increasing budget. Around 50% of our defence budget goes in to perks and pay. Do you think f7 junks maintenance, running costs are the same as a modern fighter? In the long run it's cheaper to use jf-17. If you are going to pick-up snippets of my statement, try not to change the context, otherwise it doesn't speak highly of your character. I told you clearly, we should have a SMALLER, MODERN, but deadlier force. A 300,000 force capable of being more deadlier than 700,000 force. Reduce the active force, bring in compulsory service, by starting with training soon to be 38 million madaris graduates into reserve army.

Why didn't you mention about punishing and recovering looted nations money? Why didn't you mention about bringing in law and order so expatriate Pakistanis feel comfortable in investing in their country? How many people have come to us and complained their relatives have stolen their land, whilst they're living in Christendom. As hurtful is to hear these stories, that a person spends his whole life working and then have it stolen crooks, it's painful to hear. They come to us so that we may help them, but there is nothing the Madaris can do. There is no Sharia in Secular Pakistan.

And let not those who disbelieve ever think that [because] We extend their time [of enjoyment] it is better for them. We only extend it for them so that they may increase in sin, and for them is a humiliating punishment. (Surah Al-Imran v178)


May Allah bless my sister with jannatul Alia and give her family sabran jamil. AMIN thuma Amin!
Jeez i guess you havent noticed our army has a strength of 617000 and pays of such many folks cost a lot our defence budget is less than turkey and percent wise of gdp less than India
Our current jf17 production stands at 17(being upgraded to 25) a year and we have about 185 F7p,s and pg,s and they are been GRADUALLY phased out and being replaced by jf17,s
And to bring law and order we need a better police system,a better judiciary ,witness protection not molvies to take over the country
And i clearly told you my views on conscription and madrassa training
uncle har baat jo molvi kahay khutbay mein such nahe hotey
What is secular in Pakistan?
 
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It is now more urgent than ever that these flying coffins be replaced. These tragedies cannot be allowed to continue on.
 
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All ejections have common risks and different altitudes do have risks that while not unique, do have higher odds of occurrence than other altitudes.

A couple examples...At any altitude, there is always a risk of losing the oxygen mask, but at increasing higher altitudes, losing one's oxygen mask means losing one's consciousness on the way down. But if the ejection altitude is low enough, there may not be sufficient descent time to stabilize the swaying pilot, his body maybe intact, but internally he will be literally beaten to death as he impact the ground at an unfavorable angle. The g-force during ejection is another unpredictable factor. If a pilot's head angle is ideal, his chin strap may choke him to death. Limbs can and have been broken, and joints dislocated, from the ejection process and not from landing.

Think about this for a moment...There are literally hundreds of man/hrs of free fall, from military to civilian thrill seekers, per yr, and there are more walk-aways from these parachute jumps than from high performance jet fighter ejections.

It is a terrible event -- Marium Mukhtar. If she died in the hospital from injuries, of course it would be from injuries incurred from the ejection process, but highly probable she was beaten to death. Of course, until the PAF release the autopsy report, there is no way to know for certain.

If there is any consolation, hers was an honorable death.
 
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As usual we jump to conclusions as his the hallmark of the internet. The young lady already rests in peace, she died doing a job she signed up for and in the line of duty; and that is all one can ask for from Allah is to give her family patience to get through the shock that is inevitable after such an occurrence.

The aircraft is a F-7PG belonging to the Cheetahs which is based out of Rafiqui. Regardless of age(New F-7PGs were recently purchased to replace older airframes a few years ago), there are a million things that can go wrong with a chunk of metal with thousands of parts running in it while controlled combustion of air at high speed occurs inside it. While the Accident review board will publish its findings, the area of the Crash site shows that it is still near somewhat populated areas as is common close to PAF Rafiqui. Which begs the speculation that both pilots must have tried to bring the aircraft back to its base at the least and when that failed.. the decision to eject must have been taken with the pilots trying their best to keep the aircraft away from populated centres.
The crash site tells more of the tale as the distance of the ejection seat from the crash site remarks of a VERY low ejection altitude for the pilots. How low is difficult to tell but the fact that it seems like pretty much the same acre of field means that the pilots kept fighting to keep the aircraft away from civilians as long as they could.

Now most PAF F-7s use the Martin Baker PK-10LZ seat which can be seen here for those interested.
MK10

These are very good seats, but this picture here tells a thousand words.
paf_nov24a-jpg.274441


The seat lying that close to other metal debris suggests a very low altitude ejection and while these seats are rated zero/zero seats (meaning they will work at any speed and altitude), they do not guarantee safety in every situation.
At such low altitude, there is sometimes insufficient chance for the chute to slow the pilot down sufficiently as to reduce injuries.

In the terrain that the pilots fell in, whatever condition they fell in; injuries were bound to happen. Moreover, from what it seems is that Marium was in the front seat with her instructor at the back. In most twin seat aircraft, the back seat fires first because the opposite sequence at anything less than zero speed has the potential to fry the backseater.
That split second between the firing of the rear seat and the front is what gave the rear pilot enough time to survive with lesser injuries and took that opportunity away from Marium.

Now to those that decry the PAF using old planes , how about you first ask yourself or your father how much tax he gave? How much his brother, his cousin , your friends gave?
Then go find out where that tax went? You are a citizen, have hands and feet.. go find out. Because at the end every dog is a Lion on facebook and here, but are nothing more than pandering sheep. It's all fun to go and dance at rallies and jump on containers and thump your chest for a day behind your leaders. But at the end it all comes down to the usual excuse of "I am just one person" and coming up with the usual cowardly retort of "So what are you doing to ask me that question?".
As long as you are bound by your being just one person , and think all you can achieve in your meandering daily lives is facebook or forum dramatics.. dancing to Abrar-ul-Haq at rallies or at best acting tough around policemen in a group; then you are still sheep and have no idea of your rights and what you can achieve for change.
You are sheep, you have no control or right to question what the PAF does or does not do because your worth is nothing more than the packets of 101011101010 that stream over the internet. All of us here are nothing more than the usual 2 rupee crowd that surrounds an accident and whispers about who was at fault and why it happened. Those that had to pick up the injured and take them to hospital will do so, those men from Edhi who pick up the dead and take them to the morgue will do so.. and the rest of the usual cigarette, Gutka, Vape or cocomo crowd will move along and forget about it by the rise of the new day.. not before they post on facebook about it. You can all whine about why the system doesnt work or revolution, tabdeeli bullcrap but it is you as a collective who are the cause and cure for it.

Like the many Chutiyas( sorry admin team, but that is the most polite word I have for my fellow countrymen of this class) who go around talking crap about expats or "those that had the opportunity" and so on, there is a gentleman here who has made his millions if not hundreds of millions after starting out as a janitor. His life is settled, his children married.. and he drives the top cars. Yet, every year around Spring he takes ten doctors from the US and goes back to Pakistan to set up a free clinic. He works with them, supervises them.. and he comes back to repeat the cycle. He says little to ministers nor does he takes pictures with them, just those of his patients that his doctors keep as tokens. He does not have that published in any paper unless some local blog asks about it.

When a Syrian refugee can set up a food shelter in Germany for the homeless, I am sure the least most of you can do beside your usual gallum galoch and empty internet threats is to do more than just donate money. You are an intelligent nation, because otherwise there is no way you would be famous for pulling off some of the most elaborate immigration scams Europe has ever seen. Clearly the intelligence can and does go positive for 50% but is sadly only channelled correctly for 10%.. why not 70%?

What is your obsession with Messiahs? Because the Mariums and her brothers and sisters in the armed forces, and many others in all professions of life who do well because they mean well and know that they are the masters of their own fate will continue to do what they can, give their lives where they can regardless of Ayi Ayi PTI, Sher aya, Bhutto, Mutahida, Maudoodis, Barelvis, Shia, Sunni ,Hizb ut tahrir-un-Chuttus, Dharhi , No-Dharhi , Patila Gharana or whether you like Atif Aslam's Tajdar-e-Haram or that of Sabris which you can as dumb homo-sapiens can argue and murder about for the rest of your lives. It makes you no different than the other billions from across the world on the internet talking about Kardishans or the new Golden Kit Kat in Japan. The only difference is that this is Pakistan, which you inhabit.

Unless we look beyond these false paths and leadership and realize that our own messiah is ourselves, and that our own worst enemy is ourselves. Mariums will continue to plummet out of the sky, Malalas will continue to be suppressed or exploited by foreign hands.. and Zardaris will continue to smile and squash your pithy little heads into the gutter.

I am not ranting a path, that is for you to choose. All I sermon is a moment of sitting for a minute and thinking whether whatever you are doing, whatever you are thinking, whatever opinion you hold regardless of how much you know about it or not.. whether it is actually of any weight or of benefit to your fellow Pakistani, Your fellow Muslim.. your fellow human regardless of what he/she may think about you; good or bad. Because you may or may not stumble upon something inside you that will create that opportunity for you to create change or opportunity, or help those without opportunity.
The PAF will do what it must, but it can definitely use some of you in helping it write that one piece of code or making that one design of electronics that might help it, and then you can leave it and be on your way; make your life for yourself and don't ever look back. But do that one little thing, even if it means checking how much tax you give and if it is correct; even if you don't check where it goes or not it still ends up a teeny bit into making sure that at the least.. a nut to secure the tires on a F-16 can be bought. Regardless of bad the system is, you will be trying to make it work.. and maybe someone else will.. and another will.. and someone might catch the tax guy, someone will put it on some channel, someone will get the local MPA.. because each someone will see someone doing something, and their fear of "I am standing alone" will vanish.

Marium is gone, she is probably being buried this morning or the next.. and the Soyem will follow a few days later.. why dont you guys read a few chapters of the Quran if it really meant anything beyond writing a post to you for her. But if the events of the world as they are unfolding at the maddening rate we see do not spark anything in you that did not involve that minute of introspection; then nothing will.. so then your worrying about the F-7PG.. its age and ejection issues means still nothing.

No one should ever be asked to walk in rallies, throw down containers because at the end of the day its just one face replacing the next; and your face being nothing more than one of many in that flock of sheep dancing away. But one can ask, at the least.. to make sure if your fellow engineering, marketing or whatever classfellow is writing up papers to cheat.. to ask him/her not to and offer to teach them instead. If nothing else, you offered.. is that too much to ask?

inna.png
 
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@gambit

Hi,

Thank you for your post----. We don't realize that internal organs are also travelling at the same speed as the body---and in an instantaneous stop the body may come to stop---but the internal organs still travelling at the original speed are being smashed inside of the body.
 
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It is a terrible event -- Marium Mukhtar. If she died in the hospital from injuries, of course it would be from injuries incurred from the ejection process, but highly probable she was beaten to death. Of course, until the PAF release the autopsy report, there is no way to know for certain.

If there is any consolation, hers was an honorable death.

This was no combat operation and she was near her home base. No one would beat her. It was a low altitude ejection and the USAF has plenty of those even with the ACES where pilots barely walked away.
 
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@gambit

Hi,

Thank you for your post----. We don't realize that internal organs are also travelling at the same speed as the body---and in an instantaneous stop the body may come to stop---but the internal organs still travelling at the original speed are being smashed inside of the body.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/hsl_pdf/2003/hsl03-09.pdf
There is also a risk of internal injury due to inertia of the major organs. Figure 4 illustrates how the heart and lungs are separated from the lower organs (liver, kidneys, intestines etc) by the diaphragm. In a fall-arrest event a reasonably erect spine is, to an extent, supported by the bulk of the musculo-skeletal system, but the inner organs are more loosely suspended and thus more affected by jolt. Swearingen [47] tells of crashes where helicopter pilots died of ruptured aortas, and argues that 10G measured at shoulder level is a survivable maximum for helicopter pilots. Wallace and Swearingen [51] also describe a tragic case where 6 young men died in a light aircraft that hooked a power line and came to earth ìin a flat attitudeî. None of the victims showed any external sign of injury. All had died from ìsevere impact trauma to internal organs (brain, heart, liver, spleen etc). In both reports the levels of positive G and jolt were unknown, but the nature of the injuries alerts the reader to the vulnerability of the inner organs in conditions of high positive G and jolt.

This was no combat operation and she was near her home base. No one would beat her. It was a low altitude ejection and the USAF has plenty of those even with the ACES where pilots barely walked away.
Beaten, not by humans, but by impact to the ground.
 
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