PAF F16-Blk70 possibly coming - TO BE CONFIRMED

[Silicon0000]

Gol maal hai Bhai gol mal hai

 

[Cookie Monster]

Looks at the mindset of most of the folks here. The moment US threw the bone, eveeryone jumped on it to get more F16s. a slave mindset can never be independent. You should be saying, lets continue with JF17 and AzM program instead of wasting brain cells on F16s. THe world has moved to JSF 35 and Pakistan wants F16s... sad indeed sad.

The part of the world that has moved on to F35 is the part that was offered F35 and could afford it. So ur comment about Pak settling for F16s while others have F35 is just wasted space on PDF. Just a cheap shot ignoring all the variables ground in reality.

As for continuing with JF17 and Azm...those are continuing. This F16 deal if it materializes isn't going to stop those programs. So again idk why u feel the need to type such baseless things.

Now coming back to the topic of F16s...according to OP these F16s are being offered while the bill is being paid by someone else...so u r saying that Pak should turn away and reject potent block 72 F16s given to it almost free of cost? And what's ur plan to protect the skies over Pak against IAF's soon to be delivered Rafales? Plz do tell...I'm very curious.

 

[Code_Geass]

If something like this become official it will be all over internet dont worry you wont miss out
Till then let us enjoy probability of this..

Dont call me sir please. I am junior and always be. I am just wandering in these threads because I want to find some official news.

 

[Maxpane]

Dont call me sir please. I am junior and always be. I am just wandering in these threads because I want to find some official news.

if you cant find then dnt waste your time and just move on

 

[maverick1977]

The part of the world that has moved on to F35 is the part that was offered F35 and could afford it. So ur comment about Pak settling for F16s while others have F35 is just wasted space on PDF. Just a cheap shot ignoring all the variables ground in reality.

As for continuing with JF17 and Azm...those are continuing. This F16 deal if it materializes isn't going to stop those programs. So again idk why u feel the need to type such baseless things.

Now coming back to the topic of F16s...according to OP these F16s are being offered while the bill is being paid by someone else...so u r saying that Pak should turn away and reject potent block 72 F16s given to it almost free of cost? And what's ur plan to protect the skies over Pak against IAF's soon to be delivered Rafales? Plz do tell...I'm very curious.

May be i am naive or out of place, my understanding is that Block 3 should be able to counter Rafael's with PL 15, new engines, with off bore PL ?? category, HMD, AESA and all? THat is a self reliant and " self respecting" program.

i can argue that there is nothing free in this world. when someone gives you things for free, you are obliged to do their bidding... that hurts your interests... history is ripe with such examples. ask for trade to be more self reliant, access to market, but then there are no free f16s. sorry, its a slave mindset. other be a khudaar qoum and say i will pay for it...

You are right, we do suffer from a slave mindset. It is, in my opinion the biggest reason for our underdevelopment, lack of merit and corruption. All these slaves, starting from Ayub Khan preferred London over Pakistan, and today even you see our corrupt are corrupt because they want to be white, want to own mansions in England, USA, etc.

We did jump the boat the moment we were offered F-16s, like Pavlov's dogs. The other side of it is that we saw on the 27th how effective our F-16s were. What they could do. We shot down 8 aircraft without losing a single plane. And got a helicopter as a bonus own goal for the IAF. There is a high probability of a limited war within the next 5 years and the air force will play a pivotal role.

The air force needs F-16s. The tech is superior to the Chinese and Russian stuff out there. The kinematics are better than the JFT. We don't want to be another Iraq or Syria. And we can't fight effectively without these machines to provide top cover against Rafales, MKI and what not.

If we could get the F-35, we certainly would get it, but this is the best we can get.

The other part of this equation is for the first time in a long time, we are making this deal as equals with the US, not as its henchman. Even Zia didn't have this, he literally handed photographs of our nuclear installations to the US, even though the ISI caught the spies red handed.

We do have to think bigger. In the time of Machiavelli, and later with the collapse of the Roman empire, it was the mercenary armies, and allied Germanic tribes that, while they initially worked for the Romans (like we did for the US), they increasingly gained in power and prestige until they had their own game going. Notice the Huns who ultimately became a major power by themselves.

Now, to do this, we have to take this kind of opportunities now, and look for other opportunities. We have to be like the Mamluks, and work our way upwards in the food chain. We have to think strategically and not, as you noted, continue with the slave mind. We have to stop continuing to be a colonial army and start thinking big. Thinking of how we can take advantage from the mess in the Middle East, In Iran, in Afghanistan. Howe we can act as a gateway to central asia, using the Chinese belt and road.

Howe we can make big deals with Turkey and Malaysia. How we can act like the mercenary armies of the time of Machiavelli who increasingly became a force unto themselves. In this way, we have to become a new and nascent Sparta.

As @MastanKhan noted, we have to see the silver lining in the dark clouds. Yemen could easily be a strategic gain for us, giving us control of the Strait of Hormuz. Essentially blocking the Indian Navy no matter how much bigger they are, we can sink their ships at will. Had we seen that vision earlier, today we would have had that silver lining from that cloud.

There are many more such opportunities, hanging there, waiting for us to have the vision to see them. And for that, as you so wisely noted, we need a new kind of mindset, that we lost during the 200 years of British and Sikh rule. Yet, I think the F-16s could be thought of as a useful step in the ladder for us in serving that same interest. Remember, the difference between a master and a slave is not that one is free of all economic wants, but one that can act upon his free will to take opportunities that he sees, and one that cannot, and sometimes does not even have the vision to see those opportunities.



My understanding is that the APG-80 is a full-spec AESA with the requisite cooling to get top performance from the GAA AESA radar. While the SABR uses GAN, a better technology, but is partially air-cooled, meaning it cannot get the max performance from the radar.

Cooling is a problem as it requires, power, space and weight. Which are in short supply as is. The SABR is a very flexible upgrade solution, as it can easily fit into the needs of the F-16 upgrade programs, but gains this flexibility at the tradeoff of max performance.

Very interesting Analysis... i am inclined towards your way of thinking, and having a plan behind it... do you believe Pakistani politicians and Fauj think this way ?

 

[Armchair]

Very interesting Analysis... i am inclined towards your way of thinking, and having a plan behind it... do you believe Pakistani politicians and Fauj think this way ?

I don't think the vast majority do. But IK seems to be on track with this paradigm of thought. Looat at his recent deals. There is a new generation of people who are thinking more and more along these lines. It will take time for them to achieve critical mass, like it took within PTI.

Incidentally, you'd be surprised at how many people in the military and PTI read defence.pk so we too are having an impact. @MastanKhan is (in)famous in the GHQ and AHQ where many spend sleepless nights over his posts

 

[MastanKhan]

May be i am naive or out of place, my understanding is that Block 3 should be able to counter Rafael's with PL 15, new engines, with off bore PL ?? category, HMD, AESA and all? THat is a self reliant and " self respecting" program.

i can argue that there is nothing free in this world. when someone gives you things for free, you are obliged to do their bidding... that hurts your interests... history is ripe with such examples. ask for trade to be more self reliant, access to market, but then there are no free f16s. sorry, its a slave mindset. other be a khudaar qoum and say i will pay for it...



Very interesting Analysis... i am inclined towards your way of thinking, and having a plan behind it... do you believe Pakistani politicians and Fauj think this way ?

Hi,

" Khudaar quom " always dies a horrible death unless you become tactically PLIABLE---.

You are wrong about history---. The problem occurs because you did not negotiate your preferences ahead of time---.

One should never refuse the offer of FREE equipment---because in the end---the consequences would not be any different if you are not a strong nation---.

Just because you paid cash---does not mean you get a free hand---. You are still dependent for parts supply etc etc etc---.

 

[M.Kamran_Pak]

1)PAF will be getting 18~24 NEW Blk70 or 72's for now.

2)The current fleet will be upgraded to "V" specs. All of them.
Depending on the condition of the air-frame, some or all, will go through SLEP to 12k hrs.

This Breaking News, is a gift for all those people who stood by me, when I was unfairly banned. Thank You!

I hope this becomes reality.....
But isn't high time for Pakistan to negotiate long lasting peace in Afg? I hope rather than focus on military equipment the priority would be to protect our national interests.
Especially after CPEC the Integration of EuroAsia, revival of ancient silk road, connectivity of CA energy rich countries to energy needing countries (TAPI is just one example) Afghanistan is last hurdle.
Just imagine if there is long lasting peace in Afghanistan, there would be immense benefits for Pak economy and real chance for Pakistan's economic Independence and Inshallah become one of the world leading economies.
Than who would not want to sell us military equipment? Including US companies like LM, Boeing, Russians, Chinese.
Even we will become much more capable to produce our own defense needs.
With limited budget and no support from Western systems we have produced very capable fighter JF-17, and PAF is also working on project Azm.

 

[Armchair]

Wow... 100 pages of #KhafeeLeaks ... and gangadeshis running around the D.C. circuit... like headless chickens..

Just imangine when the birds and multiroler of @Tps43 comes to PAF... how many suicides are going to happen...

Regradless, #KhafeeLeaks keeps on giving... Fun this!

Good luck to the Indians, after calling Trump a liar.

 

[loanranger]

Jokes of the month
Windjammer has been arrested by Airforce Intelligence. And now this...
@MastanKhan is (in)famous in the GHQ and AHQ where many spend sleepless nights over his posts.

 

[Curious_Guy]

oh my my read 100 plus pages, haven't done this before even on Pulwama thread.
i hope what Khafee & Tps are saying are materialised soon.

 

[alphapak]

For 24 planes?

Pak can make a 100 brand new F16 block 70, India will most likely
order more Rafales. Plus PAF can phase out the old 1980's F16's
and Mirages.

 

[Tps43]

I assume many lool

Wow... 100 pages of #KhafeeLeaks ... and gangadeshis running around the D.C. circuit... like headless chickens..

Just imangine when the birds and multiroler of @Tps43 comes to PAF... how many suicides are going to happen...

Regradless, #KhafeeLeaks keeps on giving... Fun this!

oh my my read 100 plus pages, haven't done this before even on Pulwama thread.
i hope what Khafee & Tps are saying are materialised soon.

Mine thing is all set nothing can stop it

Death to zalim mashrah

Margh bar zalim mashrah lool

@Khafee ; @Tps43 - I am making a wild guess.

Are the 24 used F-16 the UAE Block-60 upgraded to Block70/72 ??

Nopeeer

 

[Armchair]

Jokes of the month
Windjammer has been arrested by Airforce Intelligence. And now this...
@MastanKhan is (in)famous in the GHQ and AHQ where many spend sleepless nights over his posts.

I exaggerated the sleepless part to be fair. And I didn't make the claim of Windjammer being arrested, its on his thread, if you looke Windjammer made a thread, and someone made this claim there. Not sure if in jest or not.

 

[Tps43]

WoW. MashAllah we are about to hit 100 pages with utter garbage with no official confirmation or anything. Could our seniors please stop being a child.

My thing is correct ask air chief