PAF could have downed more Indian planes in Pulwama crisis: ex-air chief

[Abid123]

Hearing this makes me angry. Had they had the balls, should’ve bombed actual troops up and down the LOC and killed Indian soldiers in mass. Should’ve shot down those “additional aircrafts” to ensure this political stunt by the pagans would never occur again. Pakistani military is just big of coward as the pagans across the border. They didn’t throw bombs in Azad Kashmir, but Pakistan proper while Pakistans response was in IOK and that too right outside the occupation force bases. How is this fact lost on Pakistanis is beyond me. They attempted to murder innocent kids at a madrasah. Even as a Shia, seeing a Sunni school getting attacked raises my blood. Don’t get me started on the deliberate Brahmos attack during the turmoil of March and April.
Pakistan needs to hang the traitors in its midst to right the ship

You are talking as if Pakistan is some kind of superpower? Pakistan has always been a regional power. What is your expectation of Pakistan?

Pakistan is the only country in the contemporary history that has fought an air battle with a superior adversary, which happens to be 6 times larger than Pakistan, in a very complex air environment (with force multipliers like AEWC/IFR, 4th generation plus aircraft, BVR missiles, complex air defense systems) and to come out on top.

Not to mention that PAF bombed Indian military installions in IOK apart from shooting down SU-30MKI and MIG-21.

 

[White privilege]

Older PAF Guys are very angry that, Why and how anything crossed borders, survived and returned. buhut galiyaan dte hain.

People who claim that a war would've started had 8 additional planes been shot down clearly don't have a good understanding of how things work in the real life. Obviously they'll just claim that they shot down 18 Pakistanis jets, get a bunch of people to repeat it on Twitter nonstop for 10 years, and call it a day.

That anger is understandable,but unleashing hell against IAF would have crushed any possibility of de-escalation because Indian ego would have been FUBAR and then they would have to respond, starting a cycle. For the PAF, it would have been another difficult choice. Either go full bore and neutralize IAF on the ground or be prepared for full scale defensive deployment to counter any further attempt. I guess letting the enemy save face prevented a mini war, atleast in terms of own deployment.

 

[PanzerKiel]

From what DG ISPR described, it appears Indians engaged our standing CAPs with bogus packages, till all were drawn well away from Balakot and the next CAP getting airborne had to hurry towards the true package. Are you saying that all these CAPs could have been timely re-routed to towards Kashmir to catch the egressing aircraft ?? We would then have to cross over into IIOJ&K to give chase, right??

Luring away our CAPs was a useful tactic IAF used. We had to respond to the southern threat since we simply have lesser no of aircraft.

Generally, if AWACs is airborne, an aircraft gets detected on wheels up if it is not taking off from too-deep an airfield.

Moreover, We have Peshawar and Kamra as operational bases in Northern Pakistan. One should wonder where their CAPs were during all this time. Of course we cant assume that all the CAPs of PAF were attracted towards a single geographical area. Its just not good planning. Basic thing is to have safeguards all around.

 

[White privilege]

Luring away our CAPs was a useful tactic IAF used. We had to respond to the southern threat since we simply have lesser no of aircraft.

Generally, if AWACs is airborne, an aircraft gets detected on wheels up if it is not taking off from too-deep an airfield.

Moreover, We have Peshawar and Kamra as operational bases in Northern Pakistan. One should wonder where their CAPs were during all this time. Of course we cant assume that all the CAPs of PAF were attracted towards a single geographical area. Its just not good planning. Basic thing is to have safeguards all around.

I don't fault HP exclusively, or PAF in general for its tactics during Balakot bombing. After all any air force would have had to protect all of the airspace. But there was certainly some lack of imaginative decision making. I remember thinking to myself, since Indians have claimed Pakistan sponsored an attack inside a disputed territory, so in response they cannot cross the international border , or they would be seen as aggressors. And boy was I spot on. Even though it would appear impossible for PAF to prioritize the Kashmir region for defensive CAPs and leave the international border less protected, but the sanctity of international border is somewhat different in the eyes of the , and so should have figured out different in terms of planning too.

 

[PanzerKiel]

I remember thinking to myself, since Indians have claimed Pakistan sponsored an attack inside a disputed territory, so in response they cannot cross the international border , or they would be seen as aggressors.

IAF still today has the option of responding in the form of bombing multiple level HQs we have in AK (unit, brigade, division, dumps etc), just like we hammered theirs in IOK. But they havent done anything yet. Talk about effects.....

 

[PanzerKiel]

Luring away our CAPs was a useful tactic IAF used. We had to respond to the southern threat since we simply have lesser no of aircraft.

Generally, if AWACs is airborne, an aircraft gets detected on wheels up if it is not taking off from too-deep an airfield.

Moreover, We have Peshawar and Kamra as operational bases in Northern Pakistan. One should wonder where their CAPs were during all this time. Of course we cant assume that all the CAPs of PAF were attracted towards a single geographical area. Its just not good planning. Basic thing is to have safeguards all around.

They did outmaneuver us by luring our CAPs towards the south (in night), but we responded them in daylight...even though they were on full alert since they knew we will respond (DG ISPR was very open in spelling this out, openly), we simply went for it in broad daylight due to superior aircraft, superior weapons and superbly trained pilots. Otherwise, a weak side cannot try to venture out in the open, that too in broad daylight and attack a quantitatively superior enemy. Its just not logical.

 

[Olympus81]

IAF still today has the option of responding in the form of bombing multiple level HQs we have in AK (unit, brigade, division, dumps etc), just like we hammered theirs in IOK. But they havent done anything yet. Talk about effects.....

Why didn’t they, hypothetically speaking?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Why didn’t they, hypothetically speaking?

i mean they have everything to do so....aircraft (much in number), pilots, military and political will, casus belli.....everything.

Unless they are really weak in all these aspects, i mean they keep on saying they are big, they are technologically advanced, big economy, big industrial base, military base....imagine what keeps on stopping them from overwhelming us.

 

[White privilege]

IAF still today has the option of responding in the form of bombing multiple level HQs we have in AK (unit, brigade, division, dumps etc), just like we hammered theirs in IOK. But they havent done anything yet. Talk about effects.....

Any continuity of IAF shenanigans beyond operation Swift Retort would have ended this game of shadow boxing and deliberate misses, and freed PAF to deliver a real knockout punch across the IAF's face.

 

[SIPRA]

Why didn’t they, hypothetically speaking?

"Gaaf lagi phatnay
Tau Prasaad laga batnay"

 

[Olympus81]

i mean they have everything to do so....aircraft (much in number), pilots, military and political will, casus belli.....everything.

Unless they are really weak in all these aspects, i mean they keep on saying they are big, they are technologically advanced, big economy, big industrial base, military base....imagine what keeps on stopping them from overwhelming us.

This is a question that remains unanswered to this day.

Maybe the big boys stepped in.

 

[White privilege]

Moreover, We have Peshawar and Kamra as operational bases in Northern Pakistan. One should wonder where their CAPs were during all this time. Of course we cant assume that all the CAPs of PAF were attracted towards a single geographical area. Its just not good planning. Basic thing is to have safeguards all around.

I am not too sure about that. If memory serves me right, it was revealed during one of the TV programs that No. 14 sqn. Thunders were the ones who made contact with the actual strike package. Now I am assuming that they were based at Kamra during that time. However whether that particular CAP took off from Kamra, or did PAF pool its resources at Mushaf to serve as the singular scramble point to avoid multiple scrambles from different bases at a single threat, I don't know.

 

[Olympus81]

I am not too sure about. If memory serves me right, it was revealed during one of the TV programs that No. 14 sqn. Thunders were the ones who made contact with the actual strike package. Now I am assuming that they were based at Kamra during that time. However whether that particular CAP took off from Kamra, or did PAF pool its resources at Mushaf to serve as the singular scramble point to avoid multiple scrambles from different bases at a single threat, I don't know.

Or maybe there were many cat and mouse, decoy games being played since a few days prior. Was probably impossible to have PAF CAP 24/7 in different theaters. The IAF kept on testing PAF with planes heading towards Pakistan’s airspace and reverting back all across IB and LoC.

Balakot strike, the IAF heavily out numbered PAF, yet they failed to achieve what they wanted. They wanted to give an idea that the missile struck an empty building and scores of terrorists killed. Revenge of Pulwama achieved, mission accomplished, Indian public happy.

 

[SIPRA]

Or maybe there were many cat and mouse, decoy games being played since a few days prior. Was probably impossible to have PAF CAP 24/7 in different theaters. The IAF kept on testing PAF with planes heading towards Pakistan’s airspace and reverting back all across IB and LoC.

Balakot strike, the IAF heavily out numbered PAF, yet they failed to achieve what they wanted. They wanted to give an idea that the missile struck an empty building and scores of terrorists killed. Revenge of Pulwama achieved, mission accomplished, Indian public happy.

Array Bhai: Shukar karo, kuchh ho geya. Aaenda yeh bhi naheen ho ga, as the things are going.

 

[kingQamaR]

Pakistan (PAF) won that vital skirmish. By doing so, it was enough to panic and scare these Indians to de-escalate their stupidity and go back to their barracks lick their wounds. Aftermath of this brief encounter, helicopter downed and 2 fighters great result. For PAF. And In hindsight, I wish we had shot many more of them down made them think not to repeat anything like this ever again. For a very long time. Wreckage’s of many Indian fighters would have stumped them into silence , not hear their none sense.