PAF contingent visits Danish F-16 facilities

[MastanKhan]

oh yeah good catch , i missed that news sharing to Blue merlin ... but regarding adding another platform is complicated , set-up , training time , induction , and make strategies .. what many members here are afraid is IAF future Rafale but they forget its not that they get their first batch in 2019 and in 2020 they are mastered in this Craft .. PAF has mastered every thing F-16 has, adding more will be a stop gap and some can be use for Spares (Agreed) , but its the quickest way for PAF to keep the IAF at bay, while we work on block 3 JF ..we can't spare much money but budget is coming , and lets see if PAF and NAVY gets a bigger cut this time .. Fingers crossed

Hi,

This dilemma is termed as " fatal attraction "---.

You think that you have set up every thing right---this is the perfect thing for you---you cannot think and feel for anything else---each neuron of your body is perfectly tuned to operate with it---and yet when you seek its embrace---your brain barely has the time to register that it is a death embrace before your lights get turned off---.

 

[truthseeker2010]

It is a great jet. I had the opportunity to work on the Block 40 C/D models. My father flew the Block 15s for PAF in the late 1980s and 1990s. Just had it been equipped with BVR such as Sparrows initially then it would've been a more formidable fighter for PAF.

Sir, i am not doubting the F-16 capabilities, but i think its time to move on to 5th generation fighters, or work on making JF-17 4.5 gen equivalent. Rather than relying on F-16 as stop gaps.

Hi,

The problem is not with the " Love "---the problem is in asking the girl to get laid.

That is a pakistani problem---" silent love "---. ( Thandi aahein bhartay rahay )---that is what Paf is---.

And this example is really close to me---a near and dear---got screwed up by a beautiful woman---and exceptionally beautiful women---one day he came across me---I told him---you need to bring your standards down a tad bit---.

Life still needs to progress and you need to settle down---he listened to what I said---now close to 20 + years---he has a happy family and a wonderful life---and that beauty---she is old and rustic and still single in a miserable life.

If paf had not received the F16 and bought the M2K's initially---they would have been singing the M2K song all along---.

There is an old saying " anyone can have a beautiful woman---but not everyone can keep a beautiful woman "---.

Just because it was tailor made for you---did not mean you needed to hold the strength of the nation back by not getting anything else.

Sir you just give me a life lesson, and I will not just memorize, but will practically apply it as well.

Sir I know you are at loggerheads with PAF for quite some time, but it goes beyond PAF according to me, I think our decision makers always had been leaned towards US, not just in Military but civilians as well since ayub and now it is in their genes, they always look towards china as a contingency. So unless US doesn't have F-35 or any other jet to offer to us. PAF will go to any corner of the earth to get hands on the F-16.

Most PAF officers- those who first flew the viper back in the 1980 prior to purchase to those coming today.
To those who have flown the M2k, Rafale and others... have the following to say about the F-16 and they are not wrong(two airforces compared a lot in pilot mentality and doctrine.. the IDF.. also has a love affair with the F-16)

To sum up ACM Shamims views and Im paraphrasing
"It was as if someone looked at our air staff requirements and designed a jet around it"

F-16 was the best in 80's but its been 40 years, and F-16 era is coming to an end. Its time to move on to 5th gen and making jf-17 equal to 4.5 which currently is the standard like F-16 b52 or mk2 standard mirage.

 

[DJ_Viper]

oh yeah good catch , i missed that news sharing to Blue merlin ... but regarding adding another platform is complicated , set-up , training time , induction , and make strategies .. what many members here are afraid is IAF future Rafale but they forget its not that they get their first batch in 2019 and in 2020 they are mastered in this Craft .. PAF has mastered every thing F-16 has, adding more will be a stop gap and some can be use for Spares (Agreed) , but its the quickest way for PAF to keep the IAF at bay, while we work on block 3 JF ..we can't spare much money but budget is coming , and lets see if PAF and NAVY gets a bigger cut this time .. Fingers crossed

You still need one or two platforms (one specially a 5th gen). There is no ignoring this reality.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

F-16 was the best in 80's but its been 40 years, and F-16 era is coming to an end. Its time to move on to 5th gen and making jf-17 equal to 4.5 which currently is the standard like F-16 b52 or mk2 standard mirage.

The PAF's "obsession" with the F-16 has more to do with it being a good fighter already in use by the PAF than it being a good fighter. If it was just about being a good fighter, then the PAF would also be obsessed with the M2K/-5 and Hornet, but it isn't (even though it recognizes their value).

The PAF has decades of experience operating the F-16 and deep-rooted infrastructure in physical sites and human resources. Adding another PW-equipped bird is a seamless process, one that adds to the force at low cost. The PAF will continue adding and upgrading the JF-17s and it will invest in a 5th-gen fighter, but to leave the F-16 tree to atrophy without raising it to a sizable force size - i.e. 100+ - would be a waste.

One could have 200-250 JF-17s. Or ... 200-250 JF-17s with 100 F-16s.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

This dilemma is termed as " fatal attraction "---.

You think that you have set up every thing right---this is the perfect thing for you---you cannot think and feel for anything else---each neuron of your body if perfectly tuned to operate with it---and yet when you seek its embrace---your brain barely has the time to register that it is a death embrace before your lights get turned off---.

Fatal attraction for the Black Widow..

 

[ziaulislam]

Please used f16s......

 

[Panzerkampf]

Denmark will receive F-35 not before June 2020, so it will not sell its F-16s before that.

 

[ziaulislam]

Belgium seem to have alot in spare. While recently Romania has been buying from Portugal. I doubt this is a significant visit

 

[MastanKhan]

The PAF's "obsession" with the F-16 has more to do with it being a good fighter already in use by the PAF than it being a good fighter. If it was just about being a good fighter, then the PAF would also be obsessed with the M2K/-5 and Hornet, but it isn't (even though it recognizes their value).

The PAF has decades of experience operating the F-16 and deep-rooted infrastructure in physical sites and human resources. Adding another PW-equipped bird is a seamless process, one that adds to the force at low cost. The PAF will continue adding and upgrading the JF-17s and it will invest in a 5th-gen fighter, but to leave the F-16 tree to atrophy without raising it to a sizable force size - i.e. 100+ - would be a waste.

One could have 200-250 JF-17s. Or ... 200-250 JF-17s with 100 F-16s.

Hi,

The F16 is a fascinating aircraft---a perfect design that has ascended the limitations of time and technology---an aircraft---whose new model could last for another 20-30 years---and still be effective.

The problem is not with the aircraft---the problem is with hose who seek it---. Even though they claim that they have all the setup and training to pursue it---yet they have taken no proper steps to procure it---.

Talk is different than actiopns---. To acquire this unique---one of a kind aircraft---you have to plan accordingly.

And the only thing we hear from the Paf is all bullsh-it---.

Who gives a fck if you have a setup or training on this aircraft or not---if you can't get it you have to find something else---.

And this is where high treason comes in---when you intentionally refuse to procure another aircraft.

 

[truthseeker2010]

The PAF's "obsession" with the F-16 has more to do with it being a good fighter already in use by the PAF than it being a good fighter. If it was just about being a good fighter, then the PAF would also be obsessed with the M2K/-5 and Hornet, but it isn't (even though it recognizes their value).

The PAF has decades of experience operating the F-16 and deep-rooted infrastructure in physical sites and human resources. Adding another PW-equipped bird is a seamless process, one that adds to the force at low cost. The PAF will continue adding and upgrading the JF-17s and it will invest in a 5th-gen fighter, but to leave the F-16 tree to atrophy without raising it to a sizable force size - i.e. 100+ - would be a waste.

One could have 200-250 JF-17s. Or ... 200-250 JF-17s with 100 F-16s.

Sir from your view point it seems like business as usual pace in PAF, since acquiring 100+ target was the original one back in the 80's, and the high command wants to achieve that. So will it be worthy to achieve your goal you set 40 years ago, or to set a goal for the next 40 years and work on that at a more rapid pace.
I think it has more to do with the vision, which is now to provide "cost effective aerial defence" rather than being stay ahead of your adversaries and being second to none in the region.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The Royal Danish Air Force bought a total of 77 F-16A/B aircraft in 2 major batches and 2 attrition replacement orders. Of these, 48 aircraft and 14 spares, all upgraded to MLU standard, will remain operational until 2020-2025 when they will be replaced by the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

 

[ali_raza]

Hi,

The F16 is a fascinating aircraft---a perfect design that has ascended the limitations of time and technology---an aircraft---whose new model could last for another 20-30 years---and still be effective.

The problem is not with the aircraft---the problem is with hose who seek it---. Even though they claim that they have all the setup and training to pursue it---yet they have taken no proper steps to procure it---.

Talk is different than actiopns---. To acquire this unique---one of a kind aircraft---you have to plan accordingly.

And the only thing we hear from the Paf is all bullsh-it---.

Who gives a fck if you have a setup or training on this aircraft or not---if you can't get it you have to find something else---.

And this is where high treason comes in---when you intentionally refuse to procure another aircraft.

as they say in america bul,$hit doesn't fly too far

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sir from your view point it seems like business as usual pace in PAF, since acquiring 100+ target was the original one back in the 80's, and the high command wants to achieve that. So will it be worthy to achieve your goal you set 40 years ago, or to set a goal for the next 40 years and work on that at a more rapid pace.
I think it has more to do with the vision, which is now to provide "cost effective aerial defence" rather than being stay ahead of your adversaries and being second to none in the region.

The question to ask is ... If you can induct a decent fighter for relatively little in cost, especially long term maintenance cost, why won't you do it?

It may be because of this lower cost option that the PAF can invest in a 5th gen today. Otherwise, it may require a bigger 4.5 gen fighter to support the JF-17, which in turn can eat into funds for the 5th gen.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The PAF's "obsession" with the F-16 has more to do with it being a good fighter already in use by the PAF than it being a good fighter. If it was just about being a good fighter, then the PAF would also be obsessed with the M2K/-5 and Hornet, but it isn't (even though it recognizes their value).

The PAF has decades of experience operating the F-16 and deep-rooted infrastructure in physical sites and human resources. Adding another PW-equipped bird is a seamless process, one that adds to the force at low cost. The PAF will continue adding and upgrading the JF-17s and it will invest in a 5th-gen fighter, but to leave the F-16 tree to atrophy without raising it to a sizable force size - i.e. 100+ - would be a waste.

One could have 200-250 JF-17s. Or ... 200-250 JF-17s with 100 F-16s.

block52 unit cost is 34Million a pop .. 18x34= 612 million dollar for 18 F-16 block 52 .. PAF can get it if US release the sell .. we can pay that price in 3-4 years payment plan right ?
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/F-16D-Block-52_a000540012.aspx

 

[CriticalThought]

I am amazed how discussions on PAF inventory revolve around x number of fighter of y type. And everyone from senior to junior indulges in it. Not once have I seen anyone trying to contextualize the procurement decision within the framework of:

1. War doctrine.
2. PAF Mission & Vision.
3. Operational requirements.

In every one of these discussions, people completely forget the real achievements of PAF:

1. Acquisition and operationalization of modern AWACS by the PAF.
2. Extensive research on modern platforms that translated into JF-17 features. For example, the tests on Gripen conducted in early 2000s.
3. Link 17.

In short, every one of these discussions turns out to be an amateurish discussion.