PAF conducted 5,500 bombing runs in FATA since 2008.

[Always Neutral]

Your point is completely valid, but irrelevant in this context. It doesn't matter if 99% of the population supports NATO, if all the ones fighting are from the 1% that disagrees. It isn't about the rationality or morality of their fight...but about the unshakable belief they have in their cause. They may represent only 1 percent of the population, but they will keep fighting...the rest of the population is obviously suffering...but NATO did not come to Afghanistan to free the Afghan people...they came to take revenge.
I am not a fan of this fall back argument of "doing good for the common man", especially since NATO stumbled into this role and its becoming increasingly obvious, western leaders want no part of it. NATO is reluctant to leave the Afghans to themselves not so they don't starve, but so the Taliban doesn't come back to hurt Britain or America...that is hardly a heroic point to stand for...again, just going by the assumption that this is really about innocent victims.

You could have not said it better for BLA and the TTP?

 

[MastanKhan]

Well than if you use those harsh standards, PA and PAF have also been defeated as they dare not enter NW till date?

Hi,

Absolutely---I guess you have not read what I wrote about that issue----. For what happened in pakistan and within pakistani borders---I blamed the pakistani millitary and still blame blame them for not understanding what was coming when the u s threatened to strike afg---.

It was the job of the pak millitary analysts to understand the consequences of this war, where it was headed, what would it do to the country, where would the taliban go, where would the al qaeda go, what would the al qaeda do in pakistan.

Pakistani millitary blundered----their mindset was another vietnam for the u s---not understanding in their naivety what happened to vietnam during that time----.

Pak generals should have taken a pro-active role int he war---either should ahev forced taliban to expel OBL---if not then take him out by themseleves---and if not---once they saw him escaping through tora bora---they should have take out those foreigners the non afghans and executed them right hen and there---they should have taken OBL at our side of tora bora and his cohorts and executed them all----but stupidity of 'OUR ISLAMIC BROTHER' was prevalent in the pak millitary and pak public at thgat time.

90% of pakistani members on this board were also sympathisers of the islamic brotherhood at that time-----till their house started burning and their dear ones died of suicide bombings.

Pakistanis were so foolish into believing that these 'islamic brothers' who are not afraid to die---who commit suicide bombings on the enemy will ever turn on them---.

I have written from the bottom and to the top about the failure of pak millitary in understanding this threat----pak millitary should have tried everything in its power from stopping a CHRISTIAN ARMY INVADING A MUSLIM COUNTRY----pak politicians should have tried everything---pak religious leaders and thinkers should have tried everything in their power to stop this invasion----they should have formed a union to take out the monster---OBL and his cohorts----.

But the problem with the pakistanis is that---they don't know it is PAKISTAN FIRST -----. Pak air force has its own failures in this war but that is due to the shortage of resources----.

Now as for the war in FATA----do you know and understand the terrain----why don't you think the u s and nato have positioned troops on the other side in the 10 years----because it is next to impossible to hold those mountain peaks and passes and to have support flying in---helicopters are extremely vulnerable and so are the slow flying C130's----I mean to say that in that area---a warrior can throw a rock down at a chopper flying at it maximum altitude and destroy it----so how can you fight that war---.

This war was onlky containable in the first 90 days----if all the culprits---ie the al qaeda were rounded up and executed including all other trouble makers----.

 

[Always Neutral]

^^^

Very well put Mastan, to be honest we ( Nato made the same mistake) also believed development can change a mindset and we were wrong but now Pakistan and Nato are in the same leaking boat? I cannot agree that any of us are defeated but the longer we stay we loose the support of our own people till the next 9/11 happens.

 

[Donatello]

Well it simply comes down to dispassionate, disconnected soldiers that have not the slightest of idea what they are doing there...what moral grounds they are supposed to be standing on...are they even the good guys?
The afghans are simply fighting with the ferocity of a people with everything to lose and a nation to gain. For them, the fight is in their backyard, it is on their beliefs of what is right, and it has cost them parents, children, siblings. QUOTE]

Unfortunately your defination of an Afghani is some one you can command to bend over like in the olden days (An ability u have now lost but still cling onto), Imran learnt it recently the hardway. NA are not afghanis eventhough they fight bravely also to protect their children against the Good Taliban?

Taliban or not, NATO has absolutely no business staying in Afghanistan.

NATO comprises of European nations and the USA, with the latter being hell bent on waging wars, while the more astute Europeans realizing the woes back home, want to so desperately get out of this mess.

Afghan war, if not a defeat, is definitely a long shot from being called a 'victory'.

Denial of reality made the British, and then the Soviets look like a fool there.....and what is happening today, is what everyone can clearly see.

 

[Donatello]

Guys, i think we are discussing Afghan war in PAF bombing runs thread.....lets get back in line before the Mod's kick us in...

 

[Always Neutral]

Guys, i think we are discussing Afghan war in PAF bombing runs thread.....lets get back in line before the Mod's kick us in...

Since you both claim to be twins? Old saying for twins, one hurts the other also suffers?

 

[Donatello]

Since you both claim to be twins? Old saying for twins, one hurts the other also suffers?

Hey man, no need to be jingoistic or sarcastic.....

What you said there was below the belt and uncalled for....

I, for now will avoid replying to your rants.

 

[Always Neutral]

Hey man, no need to be jingoistic or sarcastic.....

What you said there was below the belt and uncalled for....

I, for now will avoid replying to your rants.

Well maybe what you consider under the belt, I consider reality. We can still agree to dis-agree?

 

[MastanKhan]

Guys, i think we are discussing Afghan war in PAF bombing runs thread.....lets get back in line before the Mod's kick us in...

Penumbra,

My friend---discussions are like rivers flowing---they take a direction of their own and cultivate a barren land.

 

[MastanKhan]

Taliban or not, NATO has absolutely no business staying in Afghanistan.

NATO comprises of European nations and the USA, with the latter being hell bent on waging wars, while the more astute Europeans realizing the woes back home, want to so desperately get out of this mess.

Afghan war, if not a defeat, is definitely a long shot from being called a 'victory'.

Denial of reality made the British, and then the Soviets look like a fool there.....and what is happening today, is what everyone can clearly see.

Penumbra,

You are right---europe should have the moral courage to stop this war---this was George Bush's war---the moment they let OBL escape---because they cared less---they had no containment plans---they had no troops in the area---they waited for 48 hours to take action---they did not drop mines in the valleys---at that time it became very evident---the war had taken a detour---.

All the alliance members should have their antenaes up---and more so in pakistan---. The seriousness of this escape never dawned upon the pakistanis and pakistani analysts---what a price to pay----.

 

[Always Neutral]

Penumbra,

My friend---discussions are like rivers flowing---they take a direction of their own and cultivate a barren land.

Again well said MK, if you consider Indus the most contested river changes course frequently when it wishes too.

 

[Always Neutral]

Penumbra,

You are right---europe should have the moral courage to stop this war---this was George Bush's war---the moment they let OBL escape---because they cared less---they had no containment plans---they had no troops in the area---they waited for 48 hours to take action---they did not drop mines in the valleys---at that time it became very evident---the war had taken a detour---.

All the alliance members should have their antenaes up---and more so in pakistan---. The seriousness of this escape never dawned upon the pakistanis and pakistani analysts---what a price to pay----.

Actually there is a simple way to stop the war? Lets have a nomad Pakhtunistan land where islam of the extreme form is followed.

Lets include parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan be a part of it, since PA and NATO cannot enter it anyways?. Let them chop hands and spank bottoms or whatever and we have a 100 year truce with them and allow that what they do within those borders we will turn a blind eye.

Anyone who does not want to live there is welcome to the safe zone.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Well than if you use those harsh standards, PA and PAF have also been defeated as they dare not enter NW till date?

PA & Para-military forces are already present in NW, they don't need to dare to go in, they are already there in numbers supplemented by another forces in the neighboring SW agency, who can easily reach NW whenever required. We showed that if we want to we can go in. SW agency at one time became no go area, but once diplomacy failed, PA dared and went in and took back that area and now has men on the ground. Same case would be for NW, provided the goals / objectives are in our favor. Its not about daring, its about do we want to right now or not.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The bottom line as I see it is not divulge tactical information on ongoing operations/war ---- period. The Air Chief was not trying to boost the image of PAF but to boost his own. He amde a grave eror here that is why the C130 bit was not reported in local press, even Dawn did not carry this detail.

Never volunteer any info. the enemy -- even when you know that they might know about it!!!

 

[epinephrine]

Well than if you use those harsh standards, PA and PAF have also been defeated as they dare not enter NW till date?

but PA n PAF have defeated them swat,swa,bajaur,orakzae,khyber.militants r still infiltrating in these areas from the afghan border because nato is not wat it should have done in controlling militants in afghanistan.now talibans r infiltrating pak in border areas of dir n chitral.either nato is unable to deal with talibans in afghanistan or they simply dont want to deal with them but they have failed in afghanistan n dont involve us in the list of failures along with urself