PAF conducted 5,500 bombing runs in FATA since 2008.

[Last Hope]

The Air Chief should never have mentioned the role of the C130's -- suddenly the C130's and their aircrew have become a target along with the already targeted Army Aviation personnel, and the fighter jockeys.

True. They have used the C-130s as the same role as of AWACs, Just the matter is, it was for ground control.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Are you sure ?? Do you have any idea what plus points the Google earth provides which may be other satellites don't provide. Google gives you 2D / 3D pictures of whatever you want, it provides you position of sun light at different times of the day. Google earth has lot of potential which other military satellites can't give. Military satellites give pictures from one angle mostly, Google provides 3D shots thus planning operations becomes very easy, it gives pilot the exact layout they want to see, one of the major reason why there has been lot of old fashion bombing runs, as many times the militants had locations up on the mountains or at isolated places, thus non-precision bombing runs were conducted.

Taimi

This is the unfortunate disconnect that we have amongst the forces,
This imagery is available at least with two organizations that I know of.

Secondly the Air chief made a huge mistake saying what he did, Google's imagery is at least X days old, in case of Pakistan
the Imagery is not updated very frequently.
Thus to plan any operation you need live and accurate imagery on which planners would make decisions.

 

[SQ8]

You have to take into account that, most of this was financed by USA tax money.

You have proof for that or is that one of those internet claims?

 

[MastanKhan]

The Air Chief should never have mentioned the role of the C130's -- suddenly the C130's and their aircrew have become a target along with the already targeted Army Aviation personnel, and the fighter jockeys.

Amir,

Great post----this item should never have been discussed in the public arena---. It is not only being the target---it is also giving your opponent an opening as well. You are telling your arch enemy the results of your new devices, how you have operated them and what were the results.

Let them speculate to what we have and what we can do with it---. It is well enough that the US knows about it, nato knows about it and people who want to buy your equipment---you can provide them with secure briefings----.

Why is the Air marshall discussing google earth----these briefings should be left to jr officers---so they can be easily denied if the sh-it hits the fan.

What is wrong with this man-----problem with air force personale is that as they are flying high up in the air----they are not as much security conscious as the army, navy or the subs----.

I would say----a very poor display of judgement.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, they already know.

Also, for them anyone in uniform is a target, beside the civilians.

Tk,

How are you?

It is okay---that they know that we know that they know---they think that they know all of it, but they don't know that we know that they don't know all of it. So, as long as we keep them guessing and speculating on what they know and let them think they know it all and keep them chasing the 8 ball.

Even if they know 110% of our capabilities---the millitary's job is to bluff them into believing that they know nothing of the other assets we have.

 

[SQ8]

I think the chief in his effort to improve the image of the country's armed forces has gone a little overboard.
The extra on the C-130 capability was NOT needed at all.

 

[Always Neutral]

Hi,

Well--the enemy was not as sophisticated at that time---now you have experienced operators / rejects from their countries----then there are disenchanted educated western kids computer and tech savy---understanding the enemy's mindset + the operators who learn to kill without passion at a very young age----it is a terrible recipe.

Then the biggest problem of all---the time----10 years is too long of a time for any insurgency where an operator with the resources of the united states is facing defeat.

I think Mastan, you partly mis-understood my observation. Two things come to mind

1. As the TTP got sophisticated so did the PAF and PA and hence the question is whether they were told to turn a blind eye to the indoctrination since it was aimed at NA and the Indians.

2. I disagree that Nato is facing any defeat in Afgh. I doubt we could have kept india in check after WWII even if 50 % of the population wanted us to stay but militarily it would have been a cake walk in any battle, where civil casualties are acceptable.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think Mastan, you partly mis-understood my observation. Two things come to mind

1. As the TTP got sophisticated so did the PAF and PA and hence the question is whether they were told to turn a blind eye to the indoctrination since it was aimed at NA and the Indians.

2. I disagree that Nato is facing any defeat in Afgh. I doubt we could have kept india in check after WWII even if 50 % of the population wanted us to stay but militarily it would have been a cake walk in any battle, where civil casualties are acceptable.

Hi,

Sir, after 10 years of war---regardless in what manner---the result that you look at---is a failure---. I don't disagree with what, if and how---I am only looking at the 'smorgasbord'---.

Please---after killing a million afghans---the nato forces cannot walk out of their bases securely---10 years of occupation----and nothing to show---they can't walk in the capitol Kabul without the fear of enemy strikes---. This is worse than defeat---it is a classic case of under estimating the enemy's valor, courage, tenacity and the will power to survive over longer period of time.

These same nato soldiers were making fun of the afghan fighter and laughing at them ----10 years ago---but nobody is laughing at the afghan warriors now----but the world is laughing at the sorry state of its advance millitary.

It is a classic case of getting into a war underestimating and not understanding how to fight this enemy---.

Can you imagine what would have happened if these incompetent generals were in the GenghisKhan's army---what he would have done to them---or if they were the generals of the roman armies---what the roman senetors would do to them.

 

[Always Neutral]

Hi,

Sir, after 10 years of war---regardless in what manner---the result that you look at---is a failure---. I don't disagree with what, if and how---I am only looking at the 'smorgasbord'---.

Please---after killing a million afghans---the nato forces cannot walk out of their bases securely---10 years of occupation----and nothing to show---they can't walk in the capitol Kabul without the fear of enemy strikes---. This is worse than defeat---it is a classic case of under estimating the enemy's valor, courage, tenacity and the will power to survive over longer period of time.

These same nato soldiers were making fun of the afghan fighter and laughing at them ----10 years ago---but nobody is laughing at the afghan warriors now----but the world is laughing at the sorry state of its advance millitary.

It is a classic case of getting into a war underestimating and not understanding how to fight this enemy---.

Can you imagine what would have happened if these incompetent generals were in the GenghisKhan's army---what he would have done to them---or if they were the generals of the roman armies---what the roman senetors would do to them.

Well than if you use those harsh standards, PA and PAF have also been defeated as they dare not enter NW till date?

 

[Pfpilot]

Hi,

Sir, after 10 years of war---regardless in what manner---the result that you look at---is a failure---. I don't disagree with what, if and how---I am only looking at the 'smorgasbord'---.

Please---after killing a million afghans---the nato forces cannot walk out of their bases securely---10 years of occupation----and nothing to show---they can't walk in the capitol Kabul without the fear of enemy strikes---. This is worse than defeat---it is a classic case of under estimating the enemy's valor, courage, tenacity and the will power to survive over longer period of time.

These same nato soldiers were making fun of the afghan fighter and laughing at them ----10 years ago---but nobody is laughing at the afghan warriors now----but the world is laughing at the sorry state of its advance millitary.

It is a classic case of getting into a war underestimating and not understanding how to fight this enemy---.

Can you imagine what would have happened if these incompetent generals were in the GenghisKhan's army---what he would have done to them---or if they were the generals of the roman armies---what the roman senetors would do to them.

Well it simply comes down to dispassionate, disconnected soldiers that have not the slightest of idea what they are doing there...what moral grounds they are supposed to be standing on...are they even the good guys?
The afghans are simply fighting with the ferocity of a people with everything to lose and a nation to gain. For them, the fight is in their backyard, it is on their beliefs of what is right, and it has cost them parents, children, siblings. They are fighting with the same sort of feeling the Americans fought with after Pearl Harbor...but perspective is hard to come by and people forget easily their own past. You cannot stop someone from fighting for the very existence of his belief...they will all die before they give in...which puts the Westerners in a dilemma...do they want to waste their entire lives fighting for a cause they don't believe in?
Take the battle to American shores and they will destroy the enemy. But Afghanistan isn't America, it will never be the same for those soldiers. 9/11 gave them the resolve, but once the feeling of revenge faded...they were left in an underdeveloped desert with no direction.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Sir, they already know.

Also, for them anyone in uniform is a target, beside the civilians.

You people have always an answer ready to a valid question and point raised, regardless everyone knows, things should not be mentioned exclusively publicly to make it even more target prone that is bad policy and not following codes, and military ethics, there is always a fine thin barrier you ought not jump over it and discuss it. C-130s are strategic assets this means we have used C-130s to its maximum performance in alternative areas hindustanis are now aware of it what would be next their lobby would pressure US to restrict and sanction/spares back to barracks.

 

[Always Neutral]

Well it simply comes down to dispassionate, disconnected soldiers that have not the slightest of idea what they are doing there...what moral grounds they are supposed to be standing on...are they even the good guys?
The afghans are simply fighting with the ferocity of a people with everything to lose and a nation to gain. For them, the fight is in their backyard, it is on their beliefs of what is right, and it has cost them parents, children, siblings. QUOTE]

Unfortunately your defination of an Afghani is some one you can command to bend over like in the olden days (An ability u have now lost but still cling onto), Imran learnt it recently the hardway. NA are not afghanis eventhough they fight bravely also to protect their children against the Good Taliban?

 

[Pfpilot]

I did not mention the Taliban or the NA, nor did I say I agree with what is happening. The reality is what it is, whether we agree with it or not. I am just pointing out the natives of the land naturally fight with greater vigor because they have alot more to lose, and they are shown daily reminders of it. If an American skyscraper collapsed every other day, the Americans wouldn't tire of this war either...but they have little left to fight for, whether they admit it or not.

 

[Always Neutral]

I did not mention the Taliban or the NA, nor did I say I agree with what is happening. The reality is what it is, whether we agree with it or not. I am just pointing out the natives of the land naturally fight with greater vigor because they have alot more to lose, and they are shown daily reminders of it. If an American skyscraper collapsed every other day, the Americans wouldn't tire of this war either...but they have little left to fight for, whether they admit it or not.

But you forgot that there are equally a lot of natives who support NATO?

 

[Pfpilot]

But you forgot that there are equally a lot of natives who support NATO?

Your point is completely valid, but irrelevant in this context. It doesn't matter if 99% of the population supports NATO, if all the ones fighting are from the 1% that disagrees. It isn't about the rationality or morality of their fight...but about the unshakable belief they have in their cause. They may represent only 1 percent of the population, but they will keep fighting...the rest of the population is obviously suffering...but NATO did not come to Afghanistan to free the Afghan people...they came to take revenge.
I am not a fan of this fall back argument of "doing good for the common man", especially since NATO stumbled into this role and its becoming increasingly obvious, western leaders want no part of it. NATO is reluctant to leave the Afghans to themselves not so they don't starve, but so the Taliban doesn't come back to hurt Britain or America...that is hardly a heroic point to stand for...again, just going by the assumption that this is really about innocent victims.