PAF CAS confirmed the SU-30MKI kill in addition to MiG-21 Bison - Alan Warnes

[TheTallGuy]

Hi thx for your graphic reply I’m assuming you want to say PAF has a missile which can cover
More then 200km to outgun the AWACS or can lock them if they can what kind of missile they are using for this scenario
Thank you

No PAF does not have AAM that has range to hit 200km target.

 

[MastanKhan]

You are somewhat right; but, I think that, it is not only a matter of knowledge, but also of objectivity in analysis. For carrying out a true analysis, it is necessary to overcome, as far as possible, one's prejudices, by conscious effort; though a human being can never be fully free of certain biases.

I have observed that there are many posters on PDF, who appear to be very educated, knowledgeable and intelligent, from their language, communication skills and argumentation. But, to my mind, they inadvertently arrive at wrong conclusions, owing primarily to their inbuilt prejudices, which they are unable to control somehow.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum---.

Arriving at wrong conclusion is subjective---. It is also based upon the information being fed---. It is also based on personal experiences of prior happenings---to what is happening now.

As for analysis---the question would be---what is the objectivity of the analysis---the objectivity must depend on its purpose---is it for scientific purpose---is it for internal consumption---or for general disclosures---or to sabotage the enemy's plans and create confusion---?

 

[alphibeti]

Ok I will take the bait. Will discuss.

Mind you it is next to impossible to hide the wreckage of 7 other fighters as suggested by you.

@MastanKhan
IAF stood down or did not retaliate or escalate for the simple reason, they were ordered to by the political bosses.

Modi is a more seasoned political strategist to know when or how to play his cards. Balakot was the message. His massive election victory is witness to his political acumen.

His damp squib reply to Ik’s congratulatory message post election win is a sign India for a long time is going to keep Pak at arms length.

Yeah, the political boss Modi is a more seasoned political strategist who resorted to aggression against a sovereign country and then got a sever military pummeling with a bloody nose. Isn't it? The boss then got his diapers wet and smelly. The 'seasoned political strategist' then resorted to threaten the neighboring country with massive missile attack. When got an erected response, the monkey back downed meekly. A political strategist monkey indeed, I assume.

It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.

Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.

Because we have a coward enemy that can only launch aggression against us in the pitch of darkness. Such a cheap enemy can exploit civilian airspace to launch an attack on us. Smart people plug the hole first rather than leaving themselves vulnerable while challenging the enemy. Latter is not being brave but rather being stupid.
BTW, we are not losing any thing by closing the air space while the closure is causing Indians lose financially quite a bit. So what's the hurry to re-open it?

 

[CriticalThought]

Without derailing the entire thread I cannot answer your comments. However you are so wrong in so many issues it leaves me confused where to start from. I am afraid to ask but I hope you are not agreeing to one of those venom spitting dog faced cowards who are asking for Asia Bibi blood ? Because they are cowards equal to Indian forces in kashmir. Also going to IMF is selling out? Really ? Who was gonna pay for the economic hit man Ishaq/Nawaz economic slaughter?

Without derailing the entire thread, I can tell you that a string of invectives only debases the person throwing them. And you just proved my point. When our own are ready to make the case for their non-Muslim masters, when many of our own have openly shunned Islam and its principles, then subservience is all we can look forward to. And so keen are you in defending your leader, that you can't even think beyond his actions. Out of 200 million Pakistanis, your leader is unable to find two individuals to head SBP and FBR who are not employees of World Bank or IMF? Forget the rest of this entire post and answer this one question. And then think for yourself: a nation that needs someone else to come and manage its economic affairs, a nation whose security depends on electronics provided by Western masters, should worry when their arch enemy is the Darling of Western eyes.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Without derailing the entire thread, I can tell you that a string of invectives only debases the person throwing them. And you just proved my point. When our own are ready to make the case for their non-Muslim masters, when many of our own have openly shunned Islam and its principles, then subservience is all we can look forward to. And so keen are you in defending your leader, that you can't even think beyond his actions. Out of 200 million Pakistanis, your leader is unable to find two individuals to head SBP and FBR who are not employees of World Bank or IMF? Forget the rest of this entire post and answer this one question. And then think for yourself: a nation that needs someone else to come and manage its economic affairs, a nation whose security depends on electronics provided by Western masters, should worry when their arch enemy is the Darling of Western eyes.

Please consider this my short and final response.
Of all the points that you raised you choose to talk about IMF. Wish you had elaborated on your pro Nawaz talking nonsense of foreign masters, Asia Bibi etc but let me talk about this for now.
First of all these guys are Pakistanis and there is no shame in bringing experts who understand how to deal and negotiate and implement agreement made by the IMF. If I was to make a good deal I would want to understand the inner workings of the organization I am dealing with. Hafeez is a technocrat not a politician . Pandoos are too busy pointing out this issue but yet no one is talking about how the government has requested only for six billion support instead of 12 billion originally thought. I guess you take the share of Nawaz and zardari out and we only needed six billion to survive.
If Saudis can hire a Pakistani general to run coalition support and Microsoft can hire an Indian then why can’t Pakistan hire a Pakistani to run our affairs? Just because they worked for a different organization I consider that an asset not a liability.

I am done and sorry moderator for Turing this military talk into political nonsense.

Literal sense! Wow! Anyhow the answer was for not whether you considered all paf airbases FOBs.

Closing air space is a sign of cowardice/ shi**ing in the pants if you will. Otherwise the only explanation is Pak is under significant pressure expecting further retaliation from IAF.

Sign of cowardice? Obviously you have never fired a bullet in your life to make such big claim. We have to do what is necessary to fight an enemy that is the biggest coward on earth. Attacking us in the dark ( and under the cloud cover ) we have to be prepared. Our assets should be close to the border for the time when it’s absolutely necessary. These assets are very susptible to SOW and need proper layered protection.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

100%....true...If the score is not 8... It is also not what we have been told....it is definitely 5 plus.....but we love to play games. Imagine if Indians did this to PAF....i think they would have changed their Flag design and marked those kills on it.

Ziada hogaya bhai

 

[CriticalThought]

Please consider this my short and final response.
Of all the points that you raised you choose to talk about IMF. Wish you had elaborated on your pro Nawaz talking nonsense of foreign masters, Asia Bibi etc but let me talk about this for now.
First of all these guys are Pakistanis and there is no shame in bringing experts who understand how to deal and negotiate and implement agreement made by the IMF. If I was to make a good deal I would want to understand the inner workings of the organization I am dealing with. Hafeez is a technocrat not a politician . Pandoos are too busy pointing out this issue but yet no one is talking about how the government has requested only for six billion support instead of 12 billion originally thought. I guess you take the share of Nawaz and zardari out and we only needed six billion to survive.
If Saudis can hire a Pakistani general to run coalition support and Microsoft can hire an Indian then why can’t Pakistan hire a Pakistani to run our affairs? Just because they worked for a different organization I consider that an asset not a liability.

I am done and sorry moderator for Turing this military talk into political nonsense.

There is no shame among the shameless, no dignity among the mentally enslaved, and no God Fearliness amongst pursuers of worldly gains. You can see your true face in this.

EDIT: I consider Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz to be enemies of Pakistan.

 

[Flight of falcon]

There is no shame among the shameless, no dignity among the mentally enslaved, and no God Fearliness amongst pursuers of worldly gains. You can see your true face in this.

EDIT: I consider Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz to be enemies of Pakistan.

Nothing better than giving pat on your own back to boost your ego when you run out of logic, reasoning and facts.

 

[CriticalThought]

Nothing better than giving pat on your own back to boost your ego when you run out of logic, reasoning and facts.

I am summarizing so I don't derail the thread. There is a thread titled 'Whatever' where anything and everything goes. Would you like to discuss there?

 

[Flight of falcon]

I am summarizing so I don't derail the thread. There is a thread titled 'Whatever' where anything and everything goes. Would you like to discuss there?

No thanks I have better things to do.. and I am sure you do as well.

 

[Ultima Thule]

No thanks I have better things to do.. and I am sure you do as well.

Stick to topic bro, this thread is not for political discussion but on confirmation of MKI by our ACM @Flight of falcon

 

[MastanKhan]

The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.

All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.

Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.

Hi,

And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Hi,

And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.

I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response.
We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic .

You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities.
They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return.
Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.

 

[GumNaam]

I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response.
We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic .

You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities.
They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return.
Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.

corrections brother, they hit zero targets, we hit six targets.

And you forgot to mention the 10 posts india lost to Pakistan and had to beg Pakistan Army to stop its artillery and rocket bombardments!

this is what happens when a paper tiger runs into a REAL TIGER!!!

 

[Psychic]

Hi,

And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.

Doesn't matter if we hit them on the same night or the next day.

However we should have struck hard instead of showing restraint. Had we plastered them on 27th, the morale of the entire Indian nation would've been shattered. You just don't show restraint when you've the upper hand.

War is inevitable, if we thought we'd avoided war then we are living in a fool's paradise...it was better now than late for us.

They have declared their strikes as a success and sold their narrative to their public successfully.
Bipin escaped unscathed(Physically)---Just imagine if he'd been struck along with other targets. India would have been forced to a war which it's armed forces at that time were not prepared to fight ---since their air defenses appeared to be in a state of total disarray.
We won't be presented with that opportunity again.

Now, they know our strategy and will learn, adapt and up their game before striking at us again at the time and place of their choosing.

We are over-concerning ourselves with our image as a "responsible state". We are too naive to believe that the world gives a sht. It's a dog's world out there ---the world which applauds the chuckling of the mighty and turns a deaf ear towards the cries of the weak. The world forced Pakistan into taking action against the people who in the past were associated with the Kashmir movement while the same world stays silent on India's brutalities in Kashmir.

This "avoiding escalation" strategy failed in 65 when Ayub refused to take Akhnoor citing the reason that India will be provoked to attack across the international border (which it did regardless); we've committed the same blunder again.