PAF called in for air strikes in mir ali area of n/waziristan

[fatman17]

the PAF as a habit does not like to give out such information. they like to keep their operational capabilities under a shroud. eventually we all will get the info thru the grapevine.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Air strikes and artillery cause great devastation wherein even those not involved die.

Hardly the mantra for winning heart and minds!

It makes the situation worse. See Iraq as an example or even Afghanistan.

It, however, is a sureshot way for temporary 'victory'!

If infantry action or even police actions causes heartburn, then imagine what air strikes and artillery can!

Insurgency requires patience and even that is not an answer for success!

It is a mug's game!

 

[Muradk]

They were F-16s, made 5 passes and did there job.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

From the Air Force stand point, it was an excellent effort.

But think of the hearts and minds!

 

[Muradk]

From the Air Force stand point, it was an excellent effort.

But think of the hearts and minds!

You are very right people like you and me are operators not policy makers.

 

[IceCold]

Which hearts and minds are we talking about? The militants or the ordinary people. Like i mentioned in another thread that local people started to migrate to safe places, rest remains those who are either the militants or there supporters. For me they both are the same and we do not need to win there hearts and minds, we need to kick them hard and airforce should have been brought earlier, we could have saved number of causalties the FC suffered.
I think bringing F-16s in maybe of another reason, a political one to show the US and congress that indeed F-16s are being used to target the militant hideouts otherwise mirage rose3 would have done the same job as it is meant to do a precision strike.
The airforce achieved what it was sent to do and we need to do it consistently i.e identify the militant hideouts and them bomb them so that they have nothing to shelter in and after that army can be sent in to do a clean sweap. We can also ask the US to provide us with a spy satllite so that we could have a real time intel and also to make sure that what we bomb are indeed the militant hideouts and not the ordinary people. US wouldnt hesitate since we are asking because we want to boost are capability the one they always shout to improve against the militants.

 

[Flintlock]

Ice Cold, Salim here has a point. Even in India, the army never uses airstrikes against militants and insurgents. It usually undertakes covert CT operations with highly trained soldiers to take out the insurgents. I don't know how well armed these insurgents are, but I believe they have just AKs and grenade launchers. In such a situation displacing the local population and turning them into refugees is a bad idea imo.

 

[IceCold]

Ice Cold, Salim here has a point. Even in India, the army never uses airstrikes against militants and insurgents. It usually undertakes covert CT operations with highly trained soldiers to take out the insurgents. I don't know how well armed these insurgents are, but I believe they have just AKs and grenade launchers. In such a situation displacing the local population and turning them into refugees is a bad idea imo.

First of all these people does not only have the AKs like you mentioned, they are very well trained and equipped, with external support. Covert opertations take place where there is a suspected militancy going out but not in this case as if you look at the clashes a fighting was going on between the army and these militants for the last three days. There was a time when IAF use to do the same in IOK at suspected hideouts. This is not at all a bad idea instead PAF should had been brought in earlier.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

First of all these people does not only have the AKs like you mentioned, they are very well trained and equipped, with external support. Covert opertations take place where there is a suspected militancy going out but not in this case as if you look at the clashes a fighting was going on between the army and these militants for the last three days. There was a time when IAF use to do the same in IOK at suspected hideouts. This is not at all a bad idea instead PAF should had been brought in earlier.

I think you have no idea of how the operations are conducted in Kashmir against the foreign sponsored terrorists.

The air force and artillery has never been used. Therefore,

If you think that the foreign sponsored terrorists in Kashmir are green behind their ears, then you have another guess coming. They are veterans of the Afghan Mujahiideen war.

Hearts and minds means that if the airforce bombs your house and your fields, whether you are there or not, surely when they come back, they would not be delighted. And so the whole mug's game intensifies! And if you are there and you and your folks get bombed, then you sure would be hopping wild!

Therefore, taking a leaf from the US way of fighting CT is not the answer, like it or not!

 

[fatman17]

the PA is doing its best to avoid harming the locals and target the militants which comprise pak taliban, afghan taliban and foreigners from chechnya etc and believe me they are armed with AKs, RPGs, light and heavy MGs and Anti aircraft guns. they know the terrain better than anyone so the best way to hit them is by using armed choppers and aircraft.
unfortunately collateral damage will take place. this is the price of the insurgency.

 

[IceCold]

Therefore, taking a leaf from the US way of fighting CT is not the answer, like it or not!

I think the generals who ordered for the airstrike and who actual have the ground based knowledge is in better knowing what actually is needed then you and me debating over it here.

 

[su-47]

the PA is doing its best to avoid harming the locals and target the militants which comprise pak taliban, afghan taliban and foreigners from chechnya etc and believe me they are armed with AKs, RPGs, light and heavy MGs and Anti aircraft guns. they know the terrain better than anyone so the best way to hit them is by using armed choppers and aircraft.
unfortunately collateral damage will take place. this is the price of the insurgency.

sorry for going off-topic, but this is what happens in kashmir also. collateral damage is the price of the insurgency. and then people call it as IA abusing kashmiris.

Anyway, coming back to topic, i think air strikes are not the option when terrorists are hiding in between civilians.

 

[fatman17]

need to weed them out of their hideouts into the open where they can be seen - airstrikes is the most effective way (maybe not the best)

 

[su-47]

airstrike is best when the militants are out in the open. to weed them out is difficult.

if PA can find the militant stronghold (which is likely to be in the mountains), then PAF can turn it to dust

 

[fatman17]

most r in mountains but some are hiding in villages forcibly entering locals homes. they fire at the PA from these hideouts. unfortunately PA/PAF have no other choice to target them with airstrikes and artillery.