PAF and The Case for Eurofighter Typhoon

[Indus Pakistan]

@flamer84 The fact is a pound will get you far more in Pakistan then it will in UK. Right now in Pakistan there ios building boom going on. Eight lane motorways are spreading out across the length and breadth of Pakistan, new airports, new metro systems, entire new towns are cropping up. In fact if you go to Google Earth the scale of activity is visible. Go over to Pakistan infrastructure section and you will see.

All this would cost £100s of billions in UK. In Pakistan the engineers, builders, fitters, tradesmen, operators cost fraction of what they do in UK. The cement, concrete, matarials again cost less. However the finished product is as good if not better than what would cost in UK.

Moral of story. Numbers are not always what they appear to be.

 

[flamer84]

@flamer84 The fact is a pound will get you far more in Pakistan then it will in UK. Right now in Pakistan there ios building boom going on. Eight lane motorways are spreading out across the length and breadth of Pakistan, new airports, new metro systems, entire new towns are cropping up. In fact if you go to Google Earth the scale of activity is visible. Go over to Pakistan infrastructure section and you will see.

All this would cost £100s of billions in UK. In Pakistan the engineers, builders, fitters, tradesmen, operators cost fraction of what they do in UK. The cement, concrete, matarials again cost less. However the finished product is as good if not better than what would cost in UK.

Moral of story. Numbers are not always what they appear to be.

Yes,I know that a pilot,ground technician costs less in Pakistan than Austria but procuring spares,jet fuel evens out throughout the world

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Yes,I know that a pilot,ground technician costs less in Pakistan than Austria but procuring spares,jet fuel evens out throughout the world

Don't forget manpower costs are always significant portion of any project/enterprise costs. Even lots of the spares will be locally made leaving only high end items that generally don't need replacing every week. My point being costs are significantly less. This is evident by PAF operating over 200 aircraft [nearly 100 F016s/Thunders] yet the total PAF budget is tiny.

This fact came to my attention years ago. On holiday in Pakistan the engine of my car went. Low oil and driving in heat had finished the engine - kaput. I thought the car was write off. However far less then £100 the engine was rebuilt and car came back in better nick then it was before.

 

[flamer84]

Don't forget manpower costs are always significant portion of any project/enterprise costs. Even lots of the spares will be locally made leaving only high end items that generally don't need replacing every week. My point being costs are significantly less. This is evident by PAF operating over 200 aircraft [nearly 100 F016s/Thunders] yet the total PAF budget is tiny.

But,do you really know how efficiently are they operated ? Is there solid proof of Pakistani pilots flying over 150 hours/year ? Here,I have doubts...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@flamer84 The fact is a pound will get you far more in Pakistan then it will in UK. Right now in Pakistan there ios building boom going on. Eight lane motorways are spreading out across the length and breadth of Pakistan, new airports, new metro systems, entire new towns are cropping up. In fact if you go to Google Earth the scale of activity is visible. Go over to Pakistan infrastructure section and you will see.

All this would cost £100s of billions in UK. In Pakistan the engineers, builders, fitters, tradesmen, operators cost fraction of what they do in UK. The cement, concrete, matarials again cost less. However the finished product is as good if not better than what would cost in UK.

Moral of story. Numbers are not always what they appear to be.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!.........I saw just that during my last trip to Pakistan. Every city, town and village I went to all across Pakistan’s, there were massive world class infrastructure projects going on that were deemed impossible just 2 years. This is unprecedented in our history. After nearly 70 years of severe hardships and turbulence, our nation is now changing for the better.

 

[Kabira]

Yes there are chances. PAF told senate these two names EuroFighter and SU-35 one of them would come.

But what about F-35 or F-22 zarvan bhai?

 

[Taygibay]

Look eurofighter has an edge over rafales you can search anywhere

Man, I like you a lot but reading the above, I couldn't help
but be glad that you're not in charge of PAF procurements.

All the best to you and yours, Tay.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But,do you really know how efficiently are they operated ?

You got to understand one thing about Pak military. They live with existential threat. Real and live. Pakistan has India, a country 7 times larger then itself as enemy. I did a quick check. Romania is about 20 million pop., and Russia about 140 million. The Romanian/Russia ratio is about same as Pak/India. Ratio of 1:7 applies. Can you imagine Romania alone facing Russia face to face? No NATO, no West to provide any support.

Well when you have facts like that on the ground the military in Pak knows the threat is real. Training is harsh. Survival is at stake. There is no room for any ambivalence. That applies across the board in the armed forces. So I have no doubt about their training regime. PAF takes part in training with Turks, USAF etc.

Example of good training is Pak Army regularly wins the Gold in UK at the Cambrian Patrol - testimony to the tough training regime in place. Good training is central to PA ethos as long ago it was realized that to face India only option was good training to offset the huge disparity in numbers.


Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cambrian_Patrol

Man, I like you a lot

I guess we know the secret of getting French to like you is utter the magic "Rafale". Does it work on French women also?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But,do you really know how efficiently are they operated ? Is there solid proof of Pakistani pilots flying over 150 hours/year ? Here,I have doubts...

This is a good question. @Oscar If there are multiple pilots on the same plane, it is unlikely that each pilot would log 150+ hours a year, as that would deplete the airframe in no time. I know with the JF-17 we have access to simulators which could help build familiarity with the MMI, leaving real flight for adjusting to conditions. But the F-16? Not unless we are putting only one pilot per plane.

 

[Zarvan]

But what about F-35 or F-22 zarvan bhai?

No chance !!!! even if our budget increases to 200 billion dollars still no chance.

 

[Joe Shearer]

when they use weapons them to randomly kill innocent civilians. i personally feel they do it on purpose. what i have to say about arabs..... words should no be heard by anyone with a heart.

I was being ironic: it's all thought and speculation, nothing happens on the ground. If you notice, both the assumption of identity - as Arabs - and the assumption that the money to buy Typhoons is lying around strewn on the floor.

The way they go after civilians has a kind of vindictive zeal about it.

You got to understand one thing about Pak military. They live with existential threat. Real and live. Pakistan has India, a country 7 times larger then itself as enemy. I did a quick check. Romania is about 20 million pop., and Russia about 140 million. The Romanian/Russia ratio is about same as Pak/India. Ratio of 1:7 applies. Can you imagine Romania alone facing Russia face to face? No NATO, no West to provide any support.

Well when you have facts like that on the ground the military in Pak knows the threat is real. Training is harsh. Survival is at stake. There is no room for any ambivalence. That applies across the board in the armed forces. So I have no doubt about their training regime. PAF takes part in training with Turks, USAF etc.

Example of good training is Pak Army regularly wins the Gold in UK at the Cambrian Patrol - testimony to the tough training regime in place. Good training is central to PA ethos as long ago it was realized that to face India only option was good training to offset the huge disparity in numbers.


Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cambrian_Patrol

I guess we know the secret of getting French to like you is utter the magic "Rafale". Does it work on French women also?

An asymmetry in training and competency will certainly help to cover the huge gap.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...rian-Patrol-exercise/articleshow/54995687.cms

 

[SQ8]

But,do you really know how efficiently are they operated ? Is there solid proof of Pakistani pilots flying over 150 hours/year ? Here,I have doubts...

Can you offer proof to the contrary?

This isnt a situation where we have a disorganized Russain AF with various 90's documentaries talking about RuAF pilots got no flight hours. Can you PROVE your doubts? Even offer a basis for their existence other than ________????

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s'

Three-nil, apparently. Brit flyboys 'shocked'

Pakistani pilots flying modernised versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.

These exercises were done in certain parameters. Still getting 3/3 kill per exercise is a great achievement.
Now consider what can be done if our pilots were flying the EFT?

This is a good question. @Oscar If there are multiple pilots on the same plane, it is unlikely that each pilot would log 150+ hours a year, as that would deplete the airframe in no time. I know with the JF-17 we have access to simulators which could help build familiarity with the MMI, leaving real flight for adjusting to conditions. But the F-16? Not unless we are putting only one pilot per plane.

Sir,
These days there is a lot of flying being done. Reasons:
1) Zarb - e- Azb.
2) Conversion training on the block 52's.
3) Conversion training for MLU aircraft.
4) Conversions on JF-17's.
5) Various exercises.
6) Usual CAP missions.
7) VVIP Protocols.

Here is an article regarding Life Span for F-16's..
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2015/june/F16-durability-testing.html

Moreover there is a Thread regarding Life Span of JF-17
https://defence.pk/threads/jf-17-on-the-path-of-f-16-fighting-falcon.339026/

 

[Rupeshkumar]

And who do we blame for that

Blame people who doesn't work and waste time on pdf

 

[Zain Malik]

yea what a great thread.. guard of honour earns you the chance to buy some jets.

wait .. Gen Raheel Sherif got a guard of honour in USA too.. what does that mean? F22?

Oh God Irfan Bhai can you plz read the thread pages from start many guys asked me same question. ACTUALLY IN HURRY I MADE THE THREAD AND THE NEWS ON GEO WAS.
"Acm is in Italy. There he was awarded GOH"

And after that i came upwith the idea of v Italian typhoons doo made the thread.
Plz dont link sentences.
Regards

Man, I like you a lot but reading the above, I couldn't help
but be glad that you're not in charge of PAF procurements.

All the best to you and yours, Tay.

Hahaha.... Tay Bhai I wish One day I will be incharge of PAF procurements.
Bcz i have still alot time to do that.