PAF and The Case for Eurofighter Typhoon

[Fenrir]

Pakistani pilots flying modernised versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.

During an exercise. Wow. Congrats!!

Look at all those F-22 kills!!! What aircraft could that possibly be?

A 1970's era F-5 Talon II.

Don't get too caught up in exercise performance or numbers, they don't mean a damn thing.

It's the lessons you get out of the exercises that are important.

 

[Darth Vader]

Rafale will be inducted and operatioy in IAF till 2019.

And which bird will fill the gap of superiority between PAF and IAF...???

J31 will not be ready till 2022.
J10 we are interested but it is a deadlock... Nobody can understand why J-10 deal was cancelled.
Rafale will be inducted in 2019 till then block 3 will also be not ready to be operatinal.

So so so we have to buy second hand trash that will become a gold piece for a small tenure.

Do Tell me Is Rafale God Which Will Suddenly Dominate Pakistani Skies , Destroy Every thing in its Path
Answer is No , Yes Rafale is a Really Good AirCraft But Do tell me
India Still has 250+ 30mki Operational Air crafts, While Most Modern AirCraft In Pakistani Inventory is F 16 With All The Goodies they are only 70+, Why i dont see India invading Paksitan
If you Compare Everything on PDF , or spreadsheets India would have already conquered or destroyed all the Pakistan But Problem is Wars are not Fought on Papers , yes With Paper Currency
Else everyone would be playing Chess and conquering its neighbours

as 2017 is about To Start and leme Note this date i will ask you Same thing on 2019 How many Rafale are operational in Indian Forces , which are Fully Operational to Fight

Pakistani and India air Space is so close that , Most of it will be Dog Fighting , and The side will have Upper hand who is relaying more on systematic warfare rather than Just one plane , and than Sams Also Come playas so many things ,

Best Plane For Pakistan Now is Invest In Thunder Get Sufficient numbers
and mean time get 5th Gen Bird and From there when they have Money s
hould invest in 2 more platforms

 

[flamer84]

The Italians were offering Romania the 24 second-hand Typhoons for $1.1bn and Spain was offering its planes to Pero for $60-70m a unit. Both included a support package of some kind as well (likely 3-5 years).

Honestly, let's just wait and see. I am too tired to dream, would rather see how things go (or don't go).

It was 1.3 billion $ and it was 2010,so the price might be up 5-10% due to inflation by now.On the bright side,they were even offering offset for this SH purchase.Offset is important as you get money back into your economy.There were no weapons in the package though,I believe those would have had to be purchased separately.

I don't know why Pakistan would be interested in the Typhoon though,it's extremely expensive to fly,most likely it would be grounded in the PAF.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

it's extremely expensive to fly

Doubt if it is significantly more expensive then Block 52 F-16s?

most likely it would be grounded in the PAF.

Even a causal knowledge of history will tell you PAF flew latest Western aircraft through the decades. F-86 Sabres in 1950s, F-104 Starfighters on 1960s, Mirages in 1970s, to F-16s from 1980s onwards. PAF is very adaptive and innovative. No plane ever got grounded.

F-104 Starfighter also in Luftwaffe service. PAF was one of the few and first in Asia to fly the cutting edge Starfighter.

PAF - 104 Starfighter 1960s

 

[flamer84]

Doubt if it is significantly more expensive then Block 52 F-16s?


Even a causal knowledge of history will tell you PAF flew latest Western aircraft through the decades. F-86 Sabres in 1950s, F-104 Starfighters on 1960s, Mirages in 1970s, to F-16s from 1980s onwards. PAF is very adaptive and innovative. No plane ever got grounded.

F-104 Starfighter also in Luftwaffe service. PAF was one of the few and first in Asia to fly the cutting edge Starfighter.

PAF - 104 Starfighter 1960s

I wasn't implying that PAF professionalism stands in the way but PAF budget does.The EFT caused alot of problems in its use throughout European air forces,and PAF relies on a smaller budget,however inovative it may be.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It was 1.3 billion $ and it was 2010,so the price might be up 5-10% due to inflation by now.On the bright side,they were even offering offset for this SH purchase.Offset is important as you get money back into your economy.There were no weapons in the package though,I believe those would have had to be purchased separately.

I don't know why Pakistan would be interested in the Typhoon though,it's extremely expensive to fly,most likely it would be grounded in the PAF.

I don't think the cost of flying the Typhoon is an issue for the PAF. In fact, a single Typhoon squadron would replace a much larger number of Mirage ROSE I in the air interdiction role.

The main issue with the Typhoon is the fact that it has a complex supply network - i.e. involving multiple vendors in different countries, which makes sourcing spare parts more challenging. The PAF could end up in a situation where the spare parts themselves are backlogged or unavailable.

 

[flamer84]

I don't think the cost of flying the Typhoon is an issue for the PAF. In fact, a single Typhoon squadron would replace a much larger number of Mirage ROSE I in the air interdiction role.

The main issue with the Typhoon is the fact that it has a complex supply network - i.e. involving multiple vendors in different countries, which makes sourcing spare parts more challenging. The PAF could end up in a situation where the spare parts themselves are backlogged or unavailable.

I am under the impression that if you sign a contract with one of the major partners( UK,Germany,Italy,Spain),they're the ones you deal with in the entirety of the supply line.If you sign with Italy,Italy has everything you need,no need to source parts from Germany,meaning they're independent in producing their Typhoons.

 

[Hassan Guy]

I am under the impression that if you sign a contract with one of the major partners( UK,Germany,Italy,Spain),they're the ones you deal with in the entirety of the supply line.If you sign with Italy,Italy has everything you need,no need to source parts from Germany,meaning they're independent in producing their Typhoons.

That is true, each of the partner countries can produce the Typhoon independently.

 

[Basel]

I am under the impression that if you sign a contract with one of the major partners( UK,Germany,Italy,Spain),they're the ones you deal with in the entirety of the supply line.If you sign with Italy,Italy has everything you need,no need to source parts from Germany,meaning they're independent in producing their Typhoons.

If Pakistan purchases Italian EFTs then can Italy upgrade them in future or can provide overhauling facility of EFTs?

 

[flamer84]

If Pakistan purchases Italian EFTs then can Italy upgrade them in future or can provide overhauling facility of EFTs?

Yes,absolutely.Just like Kuweit purchased from Italy the only variant of EFT with AESA radar in existence untill now.

 

[Basel]

Yes,absolutely.Just like Kuweit purchased from Italy the only variant of EFT with AESA radar in existence untill now.

You mean they can provide maintenance and upgrade to trench-1/2?

Then if possible PAF may go for used EFTs with possible near future upgrade to trench-3A/B.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

but PAF budget does

It's not that simple. I agree that Typhoon would be wrong plane for PAF as it needs to stay with the F-16/Thunder combo for now until it can move to the next level - that being proper 5th gen stealth plane. That is at least decade away and the source will inevitably be Chinese. The days of Pakistan buying it's front line aircraft from the West are over, which ever since the Sabre of 1950s to 1980s F16 has been the rule. Either US or France.

Therefore Typhoon is not worth even thinking about, other than some fanboys getting excited it means nothing. It would be perverse to add another platform to already mix match of F-16s, Thunders etc.

However the perception that prevails in the West that Pakistan could not afford this or that is often incorrect. You see people tend to only look at the headlines and then make up their mind about the country. Pakistan is prime example of that. The figures you might read hife some every evidential facts. A PAF team of Aeronautical engineers. flight technicians, fitters, pilots, flight controllers and all the other assorted manpowr needed to keep planes flying will cot fraction of what it would cost in West. Other than the initial purchase costs rest of the burden is very light.

This is the reason why countries like Pakistan managed to develop nukes, Thousands of nuclear physcists, metallurgists, mathematicians, chemical engineers etc are employed by Pakistan Atomic Energy Commision, Khan Research Labs but the real cost is fraction of what it would cost to do the same thing in USA.

This factor is something most people overlook when they just look at raw data.

 

[flamer84]

You mean they can provide maintenance and upgrade to trench-1/2?

Then if possible PAF may go for used EFTs with possible near future upgrade to trench-3A/B.

They can upgrade to trance 3 with AESA.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It's not that simple. I agree that Typhoon would be wrong plane for PAF as it needs to stay with the F-16/Thunder combo for now until it can move to the next level - that being proper 5th gen stealth plane. That is at least decade away and the source will inevitably be Chinese. The days of Pakistan buying it's front line aircraft from the West are over, which ever since the Sabre of 1950s to 1980s F16 has been the rule. Either US or France.

Therefore Typhoon is not worth even thinking about, other than some fanboys getting excited it means nothing. It would be perverse to add another platform to already mix match of F-16s, Thunders etc.

However the perception that prevails in the West that Pakistan could not afford this or that is often incorrect. You see people tend to only look at the headlines and then make up their mind about the country. Pakistan is prime example of that. The figures you might read hife some every evidential facts. A PAF team of Aeronautical engineers. flight technicians, fitters, pilots, flight controllers and all the other assorted manpowr needed to keep planes flying will cot fraction of what it would cost in West. Other than the initial purchase costs rest of the burden is very light.

This is the reason why countries like Pakistan managed to develop nukes, Thousands of nuclear physcists, metallurgists, mathematicians, chemical engineers etc are employed by Pakistan Atomic Energy Commision, Khan Research Labs but the real cost is fraction of what it would cost to do the same thing in USA.

This factor is something most people overlook when they just look at raw data.

Bro, you need to come on PDF more. Your a definite MUST. You've been very elusive the past week or so.

 

[Basel]

They can upgrade to trance 3 with AESA.

Only AESA is new update over trench -1 & 2?