PAF Air Refueling Capability

[nightrider_saulat]

Yes they can. Thus it makes great sense to increase the range of these aircraft.

SIR I MEANT TO SAID BOTH BVR AIR-AIR AND AIR-GROUND
MISSILES​

 

[Machoman]

That is an AIM-9L, not an IFR probe

Well Duh you can tell better then me maybe

 

[fatman17]

today, flying out of Jinnah saw 2 not 1 but 2 IL-78s parked on the tarmac. what was curious abt the a/c, that there were "no markings" no "serial nos" on both a/c.

the other thing was that the "wing-tips" were painted "Red" which in aviation generally donates "do-not-step" areas as the refuelling system on the IL-78s are embedded in the wing tips.

i was too far to take a clear picture with my mobile but if they are still parked on saturday, i will take a picture!

it is my informed opinion that these are going to be delivered to the PAF.

 

[TaimiKhan]

well fatman, i guess these are the air refueling aircrafts as in the attached the pics, the air tankers wingtips are red or colored bright. But i don't think the color means not to step, as the refueling probes are under the wings not at the wingtips. May be the colored wingtips are a sign or a designation for air refueling aircrafts of russian / CAS origin.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

SIR I MEANT TO SAID BOTH BVR AIR-AIR AND AIR-GROUND
MISSILES​

PLEASE SOMEONE ANSWER TO MY QUERRY​

 

[Zob]

@nightrider please remove the BOLD and secondly what is your question.....that BVRs and AGM increase the fuel consumption at takeoff the answer is yes....any load on the plane at takeoff does increase fuel consumption....if that is what you were asking...

 

[nightrider_saulat]

@nightrider please remove the BOLD and secondly what is your question.....that BVRs and AGM increase the fuel consumption at takeoff the answer is yes....any load on the plane at takeoff does increase fuel consumption....if that is what you were asking...

I want to ask can our MIRAGES fire
BVR air-air missile?

because when i was reading on wikipedia i found out that
in "rose I" upgrades our mirage IIIs were made capable enough of carrying out BVRMs

 

[TaimiKhan]

Some mirages Rose upgrades are for firing A2A BVR missiles, and some have been modified for strike purposes, meaning A2G PGM capability.

 

[Arsalan]

I want to ask can our MIRAGES fire
BVR air-air missile?

because when i was reading on wikipedia i found out that
in "rose I" upgrades our mirage IIIs were made capable enough of carrying out BVRMs

yes the ROSE I upgrades enable them to fire BVRAAMs!

 

[Arsalan]

although the ROSE upgrades have been discussed already in other threads but still are a topic of a bit confusion for new members!
here you go with some details for review!
i hope they will be helpfull!!

The ROSE (Retrofit Of Strike Element) upgrade program was initiated by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in 1992 to upgrade the avionics of a number of its Dassault Mirage III and Mirage V combat aircraft. A contract for the upgrades was awarded to the French company SAGEM and took place in 3 stages; ROSE I, ROSE II and ROSE III.
ROSE I
Approximately 42 Dassault Mirage III aircraft of the PAF were modified to ROSE I standard. The cockpit was modernised with a new head-up display (HUD), "hands on throttle and stick" (HOTAS) controls and new multi-function displays (MFD). New navigation systems, including an inertial navigation system and GPS system, were also installed.

Defensive systems upgrades consisted of a new radar warning receiver (RWR), electronic counter-measures (ECM) suite and counter-measure dispensing system, dispensing decoy flares and chaff to confuse enemy missiles and radar.

The integration of a new Italian fire-control radar, the SELEX Galileo Grifo M3, gave Mirage III ROSE I fighters the ability to fire advanced beyond visual range (BVR) radar guided air-to-air missiles. PAF's standard short range air-to-air missile at the time, the AIM-9L Sidewinder, was integrated with the Grifo M3 radar.

The Grifo M3 was developed specifically to fit the Mirage III and has been in full operation on the Mirage III since 2001. It has a power consumption of 200 W, operates in the X-band and is compatible with IR guided, semi-active and active radar guided missiles. The circular antenna has a diameter of 47 cm.
The radar has over 30 different operational air-to-air/air-to-surface mission and navigation modes. Air to air modes include Single/Dual Target Track and Track While Scan. Air to surface modes include Real Beam Map, Doppler Beam Sharpening, Sea Low/High, Ground Moving Target Indicator, Ground/Sea Moving Target Track. Other optional modes include Raid Assessment, Non Cooperative Target Identification, SAR (synthetic aperture radar) and Precision Velocity Update.
Low, medium and high pulse repetition frequencies reduce effects of ground clutter. Digital adaptive pulse compression technology, dual channel receiver, scanning coverage +/-60 degrees in both azimuth and elevation, air cooling, weighs less than 91 kg, MTBF (flight guaranteed) over 220 hours. Extensive ECCM (electronic counter-counter-measures) provisions and built in test equipment (BITE). IFF interrogators can also be integrated.

ROSE II
ROSE II was the same as ROSE I, except the Grifo M3 radar was replaced with a new SAGEM Forward-Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) system. This gave ROSE II fighters the capability to fly safely in the dark at very low level to avoid radar, making them very effective ground strike aircraft during night-time operations - "night strike fighters".

The French air force supplied a total of 40 fully overhauled Mirage V, 34 single and 6 dual seat aircraft. Of the 40, 20 were upgraded to ROSE II standard. Their engines were overhauled for a four year and 300 hour minimum life span. This package included installation of chaff and flare dispenser, radar warning receiver and GPS navigation systems as well as all required ground support, LRU (line replaceable units) and alternate mission equipment

ROSE III
Of the PAF's Mirage fleet, 16 were upgraded to ROSE III. A follow-up to ROSE II, this upgrade gives an improved night-time precision strike capability to the Mirage with the addition of a new SAGEM navigation/attack avionics suite. A new PAF squadron was raised on 19 April 2007, No.27 Tactical Attack "Zarrar" Squadron, to be equipped with the Mirage ROSE III aircraft. The Zarrars are a night-strike specialist squadron

in-Flight Refuleing
The PAF is currently installing in-flight refuelling probes to 30 of its Mirage III ROSE aircraft, stating that it is a pilot programme for the induction of aerial refuelling capability into the PAF. Mainly being used to train aircrews in the process of in-flight refuelling, this capability also gives the Mirage fighters significantly greater range and loitering time, which is limited compared to modern aircraft of similar size due to the older, less efficient turbojet engines of the Mirage III/V. Some have speculated that addition of in-flight refuelling capability may have been a 5th stage of the ROSE programme, ROSE V.

this was for your review of the updates sequence PAF have folowed for its Mirage III/V fleet!
i hope the information was helpful! a thread regarding these upgrades is:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/22638-avionics-mirage-rose-upgrade.html
some more information can be gathered if one wishes!

regards!

 

[nightrider_saulat]

yes the ROSE I upgrades enable them to fire BVRAAMs!

So far according to my knowledge mirageIII(ROSE 1) of paf were acquired for naval support
and it is also to be noted that only mirageIII & jf-17 in paf can fire exocet(anti-ship missile)
mirageV(ROSE II & II) in paf were acquired for stand-off range
and night time ground actions

so It means now that MIRAGES in our air force are meant for naval and ground support
not for fighter and interceptor types of roles

 

[Arsalan]

the mirage through the ROSE upgrades have acquired day night capability and they are able to fire BVR! that surely make them a good interceptor! this has been mentioned in the above article!

regards!

 

[nightrider_saulat]

the mirage through the ROSE upgrades have acquired day night capability and they are able to fire BVR! that surely make them a good interceptor! this has been mentioned in the above article!

regards!

I AM SORRY TO SAY BUT CURRENTLY WE HAVE NO BVR MISSILE FOR OUR MIRAGES AND F-16s ONLY OUR THUNDERS HAVE SD-10(BVRM)

 

[fatman17]

according to the new PAF book "A New Dawn" chapter 2, page 22 and it says

" an Ilyushin IL-76 transport aircraft was loaned to the PAF in early 2008, to train personnel on the large Russian jet before the IL-78 tankers arrive, sometime in 2009"

it further says....

"on acquisition of the F-16Cs, we will have to have another tanker, one with a boom to refuel the F-16s and we will essentially have to rely on our friends in the US to provide us with that, something like a KC-135, as I would rather go with a tried and tested air refueller than just grab anything".

As well as prospect of flying KC-135s, PAF personnel are now gearing up for the arrival of four Russian IL-78 tankers, with the first two expected in early 2009. Whether the PAF continues long term with the IL-78 or finds another type of aircraft is uncertain yet, but nothing will happen over the next 2-3 years - the budget has already been committed to so many programmes. The IL-78 is probe and drogue equipped, ideal for the JF-17s, but another western tanker will be needed to refuel the F-16 fleet, which is big enough now to warrant an air to air refuelling aircraft. While the latter is not in the current budget, it is a requirement for the five and ten year fiscal needs.

 

[Righteous_Fire]

^ @ nightrider_saulat

............Hey bro! with "that man's" Ava, Please:

1) don't use BOLD and CAPITAL letters
2) Stay on Topic i.e. "PAF on her way to achieve Air-air Refueling capability"