PA and Mi-35?

[ANG]

Pakistan Military Review: Pakistan Shows Interest in Purchase of Russian Mi-35 Gunship Helicopter

 

[PakSher]

ANG Thank you for posting the thread.

Pakistan Shows Interest in Purchase of Russian Mi-35 Gunship Helicopter
In a meeting Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has asked Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to provide Pakistan with the attack/transport Mi-35 helicopter. This meeting was held on the when Gilani was in Dushanbe to attend the (SCO meeting last month.

Pakistan’s Prime Minister has shown interest in the purchase of the Russian gunship cum transport helicopter of which more than 2,500 have been produced. He stressed to buildup the cooperation in field of defense to increase the capability of Pakistan Army to fight terrorism.

Mi-35 is one of the kind design as it can be equipped with the anti-tank missiles while still retaining capability to transport the soldiers to the battle field. Mi-35 gunship helicopter need a crew of two to operate it and it can also carry another eight armed troops in hostile area.

This capability can be very important for the Pakistan army which needs helicopter to insert the operators from the special service group behind the enemy lines while helicopters are sustaining constant small arms fire from ground. Pakistan army already operate handful of mi-8/17 transport helicopters to insert and evocate the troops from the battle zone.

In gunship role Vietnam era AH-1 Cobra helicopters are the workhorse of the Pakistan army. These helicopters are limited in numbers and showing their age as they need lots of maintenance to keep them flying.

Pakistan army has requested the United States for a new attack helicopter to meet the requirements of the counter insurgency operation in FATA, but so far USA has denied all such requests..

US has denied the request to sell the AH-64D Apache Longbow under the fear that it will upset the India which US sees as much bigger market for its defense products and its is also very reluctant to sell AH-1Z Viper as they feel that any Pakistani request could only be considered only after meeting the production schedule of the US Marines.

Pakistan Military Review: Pakistan Shows Interest in Purchase of Russian Mi-35 Gunship Helicopter

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. PakSher, you are welcome. I honestly think Pakistan needs to urgently build up its attack chopper fleet, and stay away from the AH-1 or other US products. The Mi-35 is a good option, and so is the Mangusta International from Italy/Turkey. The Rooivalk of South Africa is currently obsolete and is no longer in production. I read somewhere that it would take close to $1B to restart the production line and also get the Rooivalk up to par with today's technology.

Pakistan's war on terrorism fight is severely handicapped by a lack of mobile helicopter gunships with night attack capability. Moreover, the Mi-35 is available via Ukraine and other Eastern Block countries, and the South African company ATE has a pretty decent upgrade package for it, called the Super Hind Mk5. Take care.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/44254-attack-helicopter-match-ups-india-vs-pakistan-2.html

 

[azfar]

Months before i read that china has also started the production of mi-35, why dont just get from there? or is it just a step to strengthen ties with Russia?

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Azfar, you might have confused the Mi-35 with the Mi-17. China does have its own indigenous attack helicopter program, but it is still being prototyped and not in full production. Take care.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...arts-producing-russian-mi-17-helicopters.html

 

[jha]

Mi-35 is a real beast..Had chance to watch it closely..Looks much more deadly than Apache..Sadly we are not considering these for Attack helicopters..
All the Best to PA..

 

[farhan_9909]

I dnt think Russia will sell weapons to us..specially the mi 35..

 

[PAFAce]

I believe this news is slightly faulty. I think Pakistan Army Aviation would be a lot more interested in Mi-38 as an advanced add-on for heavy lift capabilities. I highly doubt the Mi-35 would be very useful, it just doesn't fit into the PAA doctrine. It's everything the Cobra isn't.

Pakistan's future attack heli fleet is likely to include one or more of the following:
AH-1F/S Cobra (upgraded)
AH-1W/Z (twin engined Cobras)
AH-64 Apache
ATAK T-129
WZ-10
AH-2 Rooivalk

Of these, if I were a betting man, I would bet on the T-129 and the upgraded AH-1F to be the weapons of choice. If all else fails, we will go for the untested WZ-10. Notice one huge commonality in all these platforms and you'll get a good idea of why the PAA would go for them over the Mi-35.

 

[fatman17]

I believe this news is slightly faulty. I think Pakistan Army Aviation would be a lot more interested in Mi-38 as an advanced add-on for heavy lift capabilities. I highly doubt the Mi-35 would be very useful, it just doesn't fit into the PAA doctrine. It's everything the Cobra isn't.

Pakistan's future attack heli fleet is likely to include one or more of the following:
AH-1F/S Cobra (upgraded)
AH-1W/Z (twin engined Cobras)
AH-64 Apache
ATAK T-129
WZ-10
AH-2 Rooivalk

Of these, if I were a betting man, I would bet on the T-129 and the upgraded AH-1F to be the weapons of choice. If all else fails, we will go for the untested WZ-10. Notice one huge commonality in all these platforms and you'll get a good idea of why the PAA would go for them over the Mi-35.

super cobra from 2013-14
wz-10 from 2016 onwards due to persistant engine issues.

 

[azfar]

Hi Mr. Azfar, you might have confused the Mi-35 with the Mi-17. China does have its own indigenous attack helicopter program, but it is still being prototyped and not in full production. Take care.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...arts-producing-russian-mi-17-helicopters.html

sorry my bad.

 

[SQ8]

I believe this news is slightly faulty. I think Pakistan Army Aviation would be a lot more interested in Mi-38 as an advanced add-on for heavy lift capabilities. I highly doubt the Mi-35 would be very useful, it just doesn't fit into the PAA doctrine. It's everything the Cobra isn't.

Pakistan's future attack heli fleet is likely to include one or more of the following:
AH-1F/S Cobra (upgraded)
AH-1W/Z (twin engined Cobras)
AH-64 Apache
ATAK T-129
WZ-10
AH-2 Rooivalk

Of these, if I were a betting man, I would bet on the T-129 and the upgraded AH-1F to be the weapons of choice. If all else fails, we will go for the untested WZ-10. Notice one huge commonality in all these platforms and you'll get a good idea of why the PAA would go for them over the Mi-35.

The cobra's bring with them logistical familiarity..reduced aircrew training.. and proven record.
However.. here's the million dollar question..
How long will our nikah mutah with the US last?
Is it prudent considering the procurement timeframe to stick with the cobra viper?

 

[brahmastra]

how many you are planning to buy, I thought 'cobras' can do the job but the troop transporting.

 

[topgun787]

the list should include commanche too.....
don't be serious. just lolx

 

[PAFAce]

The cobra's bring with them logistical familiarity..reduced aircrew training.. and proven record.
However.. here's the million dollar question..
How long will our nikah mutah with the US last?
Is it prudent considering the procurement timeframe to stick with the cobra viper?

Well, political and long-term availability considerations definitely go against the Cobras. However, there is no doubt that the PAA thinks highly of the Cobra platform and is extremely comfortable with it. The PAA would be more than happy to continue on with the Cobra/Super-Cobra into the mid-2020s (with upgrades, of course).

The T-129 should not have as many problems with availability as it is primarily a Turkish platform, though remember Augusta is an Italian company and Westland is British, and so the availability is not guaranteed 100%. T-129 should also come with fewer strings attached, and possibly enough basic ToT to allow us to make in-house modifications when required. However, the price-tag would be more substantial for the T-129. All things considered, I think this is the PAA's future.

The WZ-10 is the safest route to go in terms of availability. I have a nagging feeling that the PAA really would rather not go for these, but have it on the table just-in-case. Unlike the PAF, the PAA is not entirely comfortable with an all-Chinese platform (just an opinion). Had it been a reasonable consideration, we would have heard a lot more about it.

how many you are planning to buy, I thought 'cobras' can do the job but the troop transporting.

Sorry? Cobras are attack helis. Troop transport is primarily the responsibility of the Mi-17 Transport and, to a lesser extent, the Bell 412 Utility Helis.

 

[SQ8]

I would not worry about the italians..
and TAI has all the proprietary rights on the T-129.
However.. the costs will be higher..
I was however.. looking into it..
and turns out the AH-1Z.. apart from some similarity in flight charateristics...has little in common with the older cobras.. especially the ones we own.. the AH-1Z is based off the W.. which is for all its similarity in looks a very different machine.
So now.. those logistical gains seem to matter little here..
training might still save us a few pennies.