Over 70 killed during clashes in Central African Republic town: official

[al-Hasani]

What do you think many people may think about Arabs when they see the events in Syria, Iraq and many other countries like even Saudi. Some of them may be rich (and most people feel it is unearned and undeserved and will not last long) because the Europeans dug out oil from the desert but when they see girls being allowed to burn in a hostel or die of heart attack rather than be seen by males?

As I said, I think all human being are the same at a fundamental level. It is their circumstances that may differ.

I think any slavery whether by Europeans or Arabs of Africans or others (the one by Arabs was far more regressive with the " habshees' " being universally castrated and no trace of them left...)

The difference is Arabs never came to terms with their past and continued with slavery till they were forcefully stopped.

Or the slavery and rapine of of Arabs and shipping their women to Mongolia by the likes of Mongols was equally a historic tragedy.

If you think that Arabs are looked at as a civilizing influence by the rest of the world, you could not be more wrong. I have nothing against Arabs or anyone but this regressive thinking of "controlling" others only gets contempt.

The Arabs were themselves controlled by outsiders for hundreds of years and I am glad that has come to an end.

What do you then say about India? It is even much more worse on that front.

Wars are what they are. Wars. Overall wars in the ancient Middle East, the dawn of civilization, have been insignificant compared to what we have just witnessed in Europe in the last 200 years. I think that more people died of famine in India during WW2 than people have died in wars in the Middle East in the past 100 years. Look for instance at the number of casualties in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Very small compared to the length of the conflict (nearly 70 years).

You are talking about if Arabs just popped up here in the last 100 years after oil was discovered and that they were not rich before.

Arabs are one of the most ancient people that still live today. Second biggest ethnic group after the Han Chinese in the world. The Arabs built 3 of the 11 largest empires in the world. Ruled large, large empires on 3 continents. Large parts of Europe longer than any other non-European people in history.

That episode you are talking about was false and has been falsely exaggerated. The religious police came after the fire ended and besides they have nearly no powers anymore compared to before.

Slavery was common in the ME among all peoples and I don't deny that. This was how the world was back then. Every major empire and powers used slaves from the Romans, Greeks, Semitic Babylonians etc. List is long. Ethnic groups who live in what is now India as well. Just look at your caste system. I mean come on.

We never came to terms with our slavery? You know that because you are an Arab and have lived in an Arab country?
We came to terms with that already long ago. That's why you have 10-15 million Afro-Arabs who are as much part of our societies as any other Arabs. We know, just like the White Americans and other non-Black Americans, that they once came to our lands as slaves but today nobody thinks about this and by far consider them as equals. You will have your few racists here and there but they exist everywhere. In the US too. But they are part of our society on every level from actors, comedians, singers, Imams of Al-Masjid Al-Haram, businessmen, soldiers to football and sport stars etc.

I never heard about Mongols shipping any Arab women. The Mongols only managed to reach a tiny part of the Arab world, mainly Iraq and Syria, before they were expelled. There is close to no admixture of Mongoloid blood in Arabs. DNA tests have proved this.

No, most Arab counties were not controlled by outsiders for centuries. It was the other way around and that is pretty obvious. Even the British/French colonization only lasted for a few decades from the 1870's to 1919. The French stayed for a bit longer in Algeria and Tunisia though and mostly only the coastal regions were in their control.

Anyway back to the topic. Sub-Saharan Africa have more problems than anywhere else on the earth and it is no secret that they are enormous. Not comparable with any other area of the world. We see it time and time again.

Nothing to do with racism. Look up what is going on in Zimbabwe, "Mandelas South Africa paradise", DRC, Southern Sudan, Central African Republic, Niger, Mali, Chad etc. No thank you, I think that I will pass and stay in Beirut, Dubai, Jeddah, Marrakesh etc.

Oh, and all those countries are rich in resources. In fact Africa is the richest continent on that front on EARTH.

 

[Vinod2070]

No, most Arab counties were not controlled by outsiders for centuries. It was the other way around and that is pretty obvious.

The Arabs were under Turk rule for centuries and it ended only after WW-1 with British "help".

Anyway back to the topic. Sub-Saharan Africa have more problems than anywhere else on the earth and it is no secret that they are enormous. Not comparable with any other area of the world. We see it time and time again.
Nothing to do with racism. Look up what is going on in Zimbabwe, "Mandelas South Africa paradise", DRC, Southern Sudan, Central African Republic, Niger, Mali, Chad etc. No thank you, I think that I will pass and stay in Beirut, Dubai, Jeddah, Marrakesh etc.

True. Though you may yet prefer those places over Arab Libya, Syria, Gaza strip or even Iraq.

The unfortunate people of these areas do have more problems than most of the world and they are victims of their circumstances as much as most people of Syria, Libya,Palestine, Iraq etc. are victims of their own circumstances.

The vast majority of people anywhere in the world lead their lives according to their circumstances.

 

[al-Hasani]

The Arabs were under Turk rule for centuries and it ended only after WW-1 with British "help".

Far from all Arabs. The Arabian Peninsula for instance was self-governed mostly. Oman was a regional and colonial power. 80% of Yemen was independent and they defeated the Ottomans already in the 1600's. British help was sporadic. What matters is the outcome. A few tribes defeated them when they finally united.

Al-Mu'ayyad Muhammad (1582 – September 1644) was an Imam of Yemen (1620–1644) who belonged to the Qasimid family, descendants of the Prophet Muhammad. He managed to expel the Ottoman Turks entirely from the Yemenite lands, thus confirming an independent Zaidi state.
In 1629 Imam al-Mu'ayyad Muhammad proposed a truce with the Ottomans, as he saw the need to rest his own forces. The governor Haydar Pasha agreed, and on 9 March 1629 he handed over the keys to San'a to the imam's son Ali. The Turks withdrew to the coast under the imam's protection, and another son, Yahya, was made governor (amil) of San'a. Yet a major city, Ta'izz, fell in the same year. In 1635 the Turks took to the offensive with an augmented force, but were defeated. Now they finally gave in, agreeing to surrender the lowland cities Zabid, and Mocha, and Kamaran Island. Thus the first period of Ottoman rule in Yemen was at an end.

Still, you just showed your enormous ignorance in that past reply which I showed for all to see.

No matter how much you cry then Sub-Saharan Africa is the biggest hellhole on earth despite being among the richest places on earth in terms of resources. Even after Arab and European rule and the positives they brought with them they have learnt very little.

The crime rates among immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa in GCC and the Arab world are the highest as well. Libya was famous for using Sub-Saharan Africa contract killers and mercenaries.

 

[al-Hasani]

True. Though you may yet prefer those places over Arab Libya, Syria, Gaza strip or even Iraq.

The unfortunate people of these areas do have more problems than most of the world and they are victims of their circumstances as much as most people of Syria, Libya,Palestine, Iraq etc. are victims of their own circumstances.

The vast majority of people anywhere in the world lead their lives according to their circumstances.

Libya has had 1-2 major conflicts in the past 100 years. The last one killed 25.000 people in the war that removed Gaddafi. In about 1 year. How many died in Europe during WW2 once again? Or in India due to famine during WW2? The numbers are 100's of times bigger.

Syria has been largely peaceful for the past 100 years. Until the civil war right now. What we see there are proxies from the entire world. So it is a global affair.

Gaza? LOL. How many casualties have their been since 1947? 2000? 3000? The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is as bloody as 1 day in all those civil wars in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Iraq is the most problematic state in the Arab world. The one most hard-hit by wars. Unfortunate but even there the problems are vastly smaller than those in Sub-Saharan Africa.

More people lost their lives in a few months in Sub-Saharan Africa when two tribes (Tutsi and Hutus) in the space of 3 months, 3 months (!) managed to kill 1 million people between themselves.

Rwandan Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway keep making excuses. Sub-Saharan Africa is largely still a hellhole although they are improving and I hope all the best for them because they are neither dumber or more clever than all of us other humans.

But you can't deny the major problems that are almost entirely confined to Sub-Saharan Africa.

Did you know that by 2100 Nigeria will have 1 billion people? Nearly as many as China by 2100 whose population will decrease. How do you think that they will handle that extreme overpopulation?

Be prepared for more disasters.

Small countries like Uganda will have a population close to 250 million by 2100. Good luck with that and the limited resources that are already seen right now in 2014.

I predict that you will see necklecing on a daily basis when poor Africans are fighting for the survival of themselves or trying to reach the Middle East and Europe as they are doing while we speak and have tried to do for decades.

We already had our problems with the "peaceful" Ethiopians who were attacking babies and women and killing them here in Riyadh before we deported the criminals. Why are the crime rates among the Africans vastly superior than anyone else while they have the same opportunities like any other immigrant community? Strange is it not?

 

[Vinod2070]

Nowhere did I say there are no problems in central sub-Sharan Africa.

The difference is in the way we look at those problems. I am looking at those people as victims of circumstances and you seem to be trying to blame them.

Just like many blame the Arabs for so many things though I think not all Arabs are bad. Just because 15 of the 19 9/11 bombers were Saudis and they have promoted extremist Islam all over doesn't mean that every ordinary Saudi is bad.

Here is one example of your "glorious Arab ancestors" and how the others looked at them versus what you may think of them.

From: Shah of Shahs, Shah of Persia and Beyond, Shah of many Kingdoms, Shah of Aryans and Non Aryans, Shah of Persians and many other races as well as Arabs, Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid
To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs,

In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life & Intelligence,

You in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah O Akbar, without having the true knowledge of who we are & what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia, & same as a desert tribal man!

"Little Man" ( mardak) you offer me to worship a united & single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God & they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture & art this has been the normal path of life for years.

When we established the tradition of hospitality & good deeds in the world & we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you & your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves & burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition, cause they preferred male children to female)!

Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives & steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone, we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these action?

You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator & power of inventor in the light of Sun & warmth of Fire. Lights & Warmth of the Sun & Fire makes us see the light of truth & warmens our hearts to the creator & to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another, it enlightens us & makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda & it is strange that you people also, just discovered him & named him Allah O Akbar! But we are not the same as you, we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear & poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. who is responsible for all this catastrophe?

Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage & to destroy?
Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name?
Or Is it both?

You have risen from heat of the deserts & burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns & the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed! Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder & pillage in the name of Allah O Akbar, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from your Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others?

Alas, Oh Alas...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah & pray to him in Arabic, cause your Allah only understands Arabic!

I suggest, you & your gang of bandits pack up & move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards & drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities & our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women & children, rape our wives & send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah O Akbar, put a stop to your criminal behavior.

Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, & decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge & truth; therefore, they shall not punish you & your people for your pirate ways & criminal acts.

I beg you to remain with your Allah O Akbar in your deserts & do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believes are "Much Fearful" & your behavior is "Most Barbaric"!
sign,
Yazdgird III Sassanid

 

[al-Hasani]

LOL. Fake and later altered letter from a conquered sheep and rival. Like asking a Chinese or a Brit during the colonization of India to give their view of India or better a sworn enemy that you are at war with. I did not even read it but I am 100% sure that 99% of it are false and exaggerated claims.

Besides Arabs are about 3000 years old but all of our older ancestors are fellow Semitic people of the ancient Middle East who formed the oldest and most influential civilizations of the region and the world. We are mixed with all those Semitic people that predate us and we openly admit it and are proud of that.

Anyway that is what happens when you have 3 out of the 11 biggest empires in world history and rule large areas on 3 continents and leave a everlasting religious, cultural, linguistic, genetic etc. marker that stretches from Portugal in the West to South East Asia in the East.

No, I am simply stating facts which you for some reason don't like and I am also countering your nonsense which facts, sources and examples to which you are unable to reply.

Sub-Saharan Africa is on most issues the most problematic area and that's a undeniable fact. Stating that does not make you a racist.

I already wrote to you that people no matter where they are from, which ethnic group they belong to or how they look have the ability to be as successful as anyone else.

PS: I actually find quite a lot of African women good looking and the beauty of their landscapes and nature which is second to none in terms of diversity and animal life.
But that has nothing to do with the problems they suffer from. Yes, as I said at the beginning of the discussion, then I firmly believe that the Europeans should have stayed longer to enable a more light jump from colonization to independence. But that's just my opinion. It would have helped on quite a few issues but the locals are to decide and they are also the ones responsible for what is going on in their part of the world. Mainly. Just like Arabs, Indians or whatever is responsible for the mess in their own countries.

 

[Vinod2070]

Fake and later altered letter from a conquered sheep and rival.

What s a "conquered sheep"? Would you think of Iraqis and Palestinians as ones?

Like asking a Chinese or a Brit during the colonization of India to give their view of India or better a sworn enemy that you are at war with. I did not even read it but I am 100% sure that 99% of it are false and exaggerated claims

We are not sworn enemies of either Brits or Chinese.

So you didn't read it yet you are "100% sure that 99% of it are false and exaggerated claims"?

Is that how you decide on everything?

Besides Arabs are about 3000 years old but all of our older ancestors are fellow Semitic people of the ancient Middle East who formed the oldest and most influential civilizations of the region and the world. We are mixed with all those Semitic people that predate us and we openly admit it and are proud of that.

If you are referring to Egyptian and Iraqi (Sumerian) civilizations, they were not Arab civilizations and these people were not Arabs.

They were merely "Arabized" afer losing their own language, culture, religion et al.

I don't have any view on "semitic" or "non semitic". Doesn't matter to me.

Anyway that is what happens when you have 3 out of the 11 biggest empires in world history and rule large areas on 3 continents and leave a everlasting religious, cultural, linguistic, genetic etc. marker that stretches from Portugal in the West to South East Asia in the East.

Mongols had the biggest contiguous land empire in the world. Every 7th person in the worls is supposedly carrying Genghis's genes.

They are remembered in history mostly for the wrong reasons.

 

[al-Hasani]

What s a "conquered sheep"? Would you think of Iraqis and Palestinians as ones?



We are not sworn enemies of either Brits or Chinese.

So you didn't read it yet you are "100% sure that 99% of it are false and exaggerated claims"?

Is that how you decide on everything?



If you are referring to Egyptian and Iraqi (Sumerian) civilizations, they were not Arab civilizations and these people were not Arabs.

They were merely "Arabized" afer losing their own language, culture, religion et al.

I don't have any view on "semitic" or "non semitic". Doesn't matter to me.



Mongols had the biggest contiguous land empire in the world. Every 7th person in the worls is supposedly carrying Genghis's genes.

They are remembered in history mostly for the wrong reasons.

A conquered sheep is one that gets conquered military, religiously, culturally, linguistically, genetical and on nearly every other level. That is what happened and is seen clearly even today.

Nice try but Arabs lived in Iraq 1200 years before the appearance of Islam. In fact the word Arab dates back to ancient Assyria where that word first appeared. Besides all those lands were ancient and FELLOW Semitic cultures/people/civilizations. Arab is just a word for people who speak Arabic and since 95% of the Arabs today happen to be people NATIVE to the ME and Semitic people they are related to the ancient Semitic civilizations and people who lived in the same areas before the Arabs appeared as a people and language. Once again this is shown by modern day genetics.

Whatever you say. I suggest reading reports of how the Brits viewed your people and what Churchill and others did not long ago.

No, I know that this supposed letter is fake. It is not genuine. Google it and you will find out. Besides that is written by a person that was at war with us and who we conquered and defeated.

No, but every other area was Arabized when Islam came. Even Yemen which did not speak Arabic but Southern Semitic languages today grouped as Southern Arabian despite being totally different languages. Same with most areas of what is now KSA even.

All those were Semitic/native Middle Eastern civilizations that we are tied to either through ancestry (confirmed) or by living on that land for millenniums.

Indian are one of the most diverse places in Asia and made up by dozens of ethnic groups with different histories etc. Before 1947 India was made up by 100's of small states etc. It is a nice creation. Arabs are much more coherent on all levels. To this day you don't even speak the same language. Racially they are not the same either. No brainer once again.

No, they did not. The British Empire was the biggest Empire in history. The Mongol Empire was incredibly short lived and mostly ruled the empty steppes of Central Asia etc. Arabs had 3 of the 11 biggest empires in history and the 5th biggest (Umayyad).

That every 7th person on earth is a descendant of Genghis Khan that just lived 800 years ago is obviously complete and utter bullshit. Find me a source that says that. A serious one.

Anyway stick to the topic discussed which is the UNDENIABLE mess of Sub-Saharan Africa that you somehow deny for whatever reasons.

 

[Vinod2070]

Lewis points out a significant and “remarkable difference between what happened in Iran and what happened in all the other countries of the Middle East and North Africa that were conquered by the Arabs and incorporated in the Islamic caliphate in the seventh and eighth centuries”:

1. The other countries (Iraq, Syria, Egypt, North Africa): these “were Islamized and Arabized in a remarkably short time”, with their old religions and languages almost evaporating.

2.Iran: it was Islamized but not Arabized. “Persians remained Persians.”

Lewis describes Iran’s distinctive contribution to Islam, including Arabic poetry. It was this Iranian Islam, “a second advent of Islam” (Islam-i Ajam) that was brought to new areas and peoples – the Turks and India. It was a form of Iranian civilization that the Ottoman Turks brought to the walls of Vienna. Indeed, by the 13th century Iranian Islam had become a dominant element within Islam, with the main centres of Islamic power and civilization in countries marked by Iranian civilization, to which even the Egypt-based Mamluk Sultanate gave way.

Bernard Lewis, Iran in History

We are proud of our diversity and the essential civilizational unity behind that diversity.

Arabs may be more "coherent" (whatever that may mean), they still are unable to come together.

We give a damn to what racist bigots like Churchil may have said, they had no high opinion of Arabs or Islam either. Check his book "The river war" to find his views about these things.

Regarding Genghis, here are some links;

Genes of history's greatest lover found? - UPI.com

Genghis Khan, Thomas Jefferson and Adam | Understanding Genetics

They talk of 1 in 200 males being Genghis' progenies.

Anyway, as I said I have nothing against Arabs as a people. Nor against the Central Asians or any people as long as they are not blowing up in market places full of innocents and trying to impose their will on others.

Any unfortunate people need to be helped by the rest of humanity, not made fun of or worse sough to be "controlled".

 

[Ceylal]

Not for sensitive soul..very graphic
C. Africa crowd lynches fleeing Muslim: witnesses - Yahoo News