Over 240,000+ Afghan refugees deported from Turkey (as well as Iran and Pakistan)

[my2cents]

They are landing in droves - 15000 are expected since the withdrawal. In my city they are now occupying entire neighborhoods along with Somalis. Ukranians have been arriving too but not as much as Afghans.

They are being sent to multiple states and pretty soon Afghanis in the US will be a common sight in comparison to many other immigrants like Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and so on.

I have afghani and Irani neighbors. Afghan came few years ago. Iranians are older couple who migrated long time ago. Very friendly people.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Turkey, Iran and Pakistan are all islamic states. Pakistan was (allegedly) created in the name of Islam. Is it fair or Islamic on their part to deny refuge to Muslim refugees of whatever race?

Regards

Oh shaaat the phuck up pajeet your rectum like mouth is always defecating in the open.
Where are your fraaandship with afgandus these days , they need phull sapporrt from you but you are busy here talking crap.

 

[LegionnairE]

Nice way to say “thanks, but we don’t need pakistanis here in turkey”. I like it.

Yeah well, nation states and borders exist for a reason. India is the best place for Indians, Pakistan is the best place for Pakistanis. Turkey for the Turks.

I'm not a big fan of globalization.

 

[LegionnairE]

If he says to me that "Pakistani engineers are coming to Turkey to work" my answer would be the same. Why are we stealing Pakistan's engineers and why are we undercutting the employment opportunities of the Turkish engineers? It's unfair to everyone.

Just let everybody stay in their own country. It doesn't matter if they are good people or bad people.

The best people in the world are the ones who stay in their own country and try to improve their own country.

 

[SQ8]

I have afghani and Irani neighbors. Afghan came few years ago. Iranians are older couple who migrated long time ago. Very friendly people.

Individuals being friendly to individuals does not gather any indication of a general “peoples”
Intent. I have a great Afghani friend who studied with me in Pakistan yet when I mentioned some of the PTM movement and the tribal idea of brotherhood with Afghanis his answer was “They are fools, let them come and we’ll show them what we will do to them”

 

[ThunderCat]

I think it's better for Pakistanis to invest in Pakistan. And I think it's better for Pakistani tourists to travel in Pakistan. Pakistan's economy needs that money more than Turkey does.

It's Turkey that benefits from foreign tourism which is one tenth of it's economy. Turkey relies on foreign tourists. Not the other way around since people don't need to travel there.

Pakistanis or any other foreign tourists don't need to visit Turkey. But if they didn't, Turkey's economy would suffer and millions of Turks would be left unemployed.

Tourism is what helped their economy recover from COVID. It's also been part of their economic boom.

The reason why Turkey was offering citizenship is because it was desperate for investors to bring in money from abroad as foreign investment is also part of it's economy which has already been suffering. Not to mention Turkish airlines which benefits from Pakistani passengers both tourists & transit passengers alike.

If you don't want all this, then your economy will begin to deteriorate fast.

Nice way to say “thanks, but we don’t need pakistanis here in turkey”. I like it. LOL

Oh yes they do. Their economy relies on tourism. LOL this is coming from the rape capital of the world. You should see how badly Indians are perceived by foreigners, including your Russian & Armenian "brothers." Why don't we start with one example:

 

[LegionnairE]

The reason why Turkey was offering citizenship is because it was desperate for investors to bring in money from abroad as foreign investment is also part of it's economy which has already been suffering. Not to mention Turkish airlines which benefits from Pakistani passengers both tourists & transit passengers alike.

If you don't want all this, then your economy will begin to deteriorate fast.

Turkish economy has bigger problems than a lack of tourism. We don't have to whore ourselves for 250.000 dollars to get the economy going.

There are simple things that can be done to improve the economy drastically.

• We could stop spending 100 billion dollars on refugees.
• We could reduce government spending and reduce taxes to reduce corruption and open the way for private sector to florish.
• We could stop fucking with interest rates to score religious votes.
• We could increase farming subsidies to make Turkish food industry competitive again.
• We could stop paying billions of dollars to Diyanet, a corrupt religious institution that tells people it's halal for a father to lust over his daughter.
  https://www.bbc.com/turkce/haberler-turkiye-42552621

This is a Fatwa of Diyanet. Translation: Lusting after her by holding her through a thick dress or just thinking about her does not constitute such a Haram. Below sentence explains that lusting would be (a father's) dick getting hard or harder.

 

[ThunderCat]

Turkish economy has bigger problems than a lack of tourism. We don't have to whore ourselves for 250.000 dollars to get the economy going.

There are simple things that can be done to improve the economy drastically.

• We could stop spending 100 billion dollars on refugees.
• We could reduce government spending and reduce taxes to reduce corruption and open the way for private sector to florish.
• We could stop fucking with interest rates to score religious votes.
• We could increase farming subsidies to make Turkish food industry competitive again.
• We could stop paying billions of dollars to Diyanet, a corrupt religious institution that tells people it's halal for a father to lust over his daughter.
  https://www.bbc.com/turkce/haberler-turkiye-42552621

As I wrote, tourism is about one tenth of Turkey's economy. Which is still a source of income for millions and millions of Turks. Not just hotels, but shop owners, taxi drivers and the list goes on. Over 59 billion dollars were generated annually to your tourism industry, which is a huge loss if you choose to cut it.

COVID-19 almost killed your economy which is one of the most globalized ones. One problem is your country does not have enough indigenous natural resources; especially in proportion to your population size.

If you take your proposals and put them to action, what proposals do you have still to generate revenue for your country which is one of the most globalized ones? Your geography is in fact a major gain of globalization.

Agriculture was part of your economy for decades and if you strengthen it, are you confident enough that you can solely or mainly rely on it?

Your last point emphasizes my own argument. Perverts/pedophiles exist everywhere. You cannot blame all Pakistanis just because some of them were acting stupid.

Another Turk told online me Pakistanis follow "rape culture" when Pakistan has begun to adopt the death penalty for rape, although little has been done to implement it. This has been opposed by pro-Western neo-liberals there alongside the mullahs.

When some Turks are raping their own underage daughters, there is no point blaming all Pakistanis for taking videos, when even worse things are being done there to local and foreign girls.

Taking videos is bad enough, but not half as bad as rape crimes.
Everyone has to clear their own negativity and not stereotype on others for it.

 

[LegionnairE]

As I wrote, tourism is about one tenth of Turkey's economy. Which is still a source of income for millions and millions of Turks. Not just hotels, but shop owners, taxi drivers and the list goes on. Over 59 billion dollars were generated annually to your tourism industry, which is a huge loss if you choose to cut it.

COVID-19 almost killed your economy which is one of the most globalized ones.

If you take your proposals and put them to action, what proposals do you have still to generate revenue for your country which is one of the most globalized ones? Your geography is in fact a major gain of globalization. Agriculture was part of your economy for decades and if you strengthen it, are you confident you can solely or mainly rely on it?

Strong agriculture sector would decrease the cost of living so much that even if the GDP doesn't grow a lot, it would feel like it did.. Right now Turkey is importing a lot of food from abroad. We're buying walnut from America, lentil from Canada and so on.

We are vastly behind on tractors, farm equipment, irrigation, seed production and so on. We could also produce biodiesel to reduce our dependence on oil imports.

And I'm not saying we should kill off tourism completely. People from ultra rich countries like Switzerland or Denmark and so on could always come here, stay a few days, spend A LOT of money and **** off. We need to reduce the volume %90 or so though. We need a very strict visa regimen.

If you go to a museum and it's like an ant colony or a street in bombay or something, you don't want to go there. You wouldn't recommend going there to your friends. So by reducing the volume of tourists coming here, we could increase the quality of service

Your last point emphasizes my own argument. Perverts/pedophiles exist everywhere. You cannot blame all Pakistanis just because some of them were acting stupid.

I have NEVER blamed all Pakistanis.

Though we have too many problems to deal with here already. I hope you understand. Turkey as a society is on the brink. We're going through very dangerous times

 

[ThunderCat]

Yeah well, nation states and borders exist for a reason. India is the best place for Indians, Pakistan is the best place for Pakistanis. Turkey for the Turks.

I'm not a big fan of globalization.

Fair enough, I don't like too much globalization.

But that's not how your economy was built. It's mostly built and functions on globalization. Even if you cut out tourism, which alone accounts for over 59 billion dollars, what about transportation?

Turkish Airlines is one of the biggest airlines in the world with the most destinations, employing so many of your people. They rely on globalization to remain so big. They suffered because of COVID-19.

Tourism was relied on to recover your economy https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/high-hopes-that-tourism-will-steady-turkeys-economy

Many of your people live as immigrants abroad and send money back home. If everybody moved back home, there would be lots of jobless people and the job market would be tightened.

Just to make a simple example, Turks in the carpet business would make good money selling carpets abroad where they are more unique and have a higher market price.

In Turkey if everyone is selling Turkish carpets, why would more Turkish carpet sellers be needed?

Why would Turks selling kebabs and ice cream abroad come back home when there's already enough of them there?

Even your big defense industry has taken off because of globalization. Your state-of-the-art drones contain Canadian parts and if I'm not mistaken, Pakistani parts as well.

Your country has few natural resources, so your defense products rely on parts from across the world to function and grow.

It's not like I'm trying to gain your acceptance here, it's me trying to explain to you that your economy is where it is today because of globalization. It's me trying to explain to you what would happen if everyone went to their own country.

Your economy would not strengthen if all Turks moved back home, it would probably suffer more since these Turks have nothing unique to offer.

Also only about 70,000 Pakistanis live in Turkey, which is hardly anything in a country of almost 85 million people.

The ones living as illegal refugees don't want to live there from what I read in a Turkish media article. The refugees are trying to reach Europe.

The few others living there are business people, including private investors, restaurant owners as well about 20,0000 students. Nothing to hurt the economy with.

 

[LegionnairE]

Fair enough, I don't like too much globalization.

But that's not how your economy built. It's mostly built and functions on globalization. Even if you cut out tourism, which alone accounts for over 59 billion dollars, what about transportation?

Turkish Airlines is one of the biggest airlines in the world with the most destinations, employing so many of your people. They rely on globalization to remain so big. They suffered because of COVID-19.

Tourism was relied on to recover your economy https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/high-hopes-that-tourism-will-steady-turkeys-economy

Many of your people live as immigrants abroad and send money back home. If everybody moved back home, there would be lots of jobless people and the job market would be tightened.

Just to make a simple example, Turks in the carpet business would make good money selling carpets abroad where they are more unique and have a higher market price.

In Turkey if everyone is selling Turkish carpets, why would more Turkish carpet sellers be needed?

Why would Turks selling kebabs and ice cream abroad come back home when there's already enough of them there?

Even your big defense industry has taken off because of globalization. Your state-of-the-art drones contain Canadian parts and if I'm not mistaken, Pakistani parts as well.

Your country has few natural resources, so your defense products rely on parts from across the world to function and grow.

It's not like I'm trying to gain your acceptance here, it's me trying to explain to you that your economy is where it is today because of globalization. It's me trying to explain to you what would happen if everyone went to their own country.

Your economy would not strengthen if all Turks moved back home, it would probably suffer more since these Turks have nothing unique to offer.

Also only about 70,000 Pakistanis live in Turkey, which is hardly anything in a country of almost 85 million people.

The ones living as illegal refugees don't want to live there from what I read in a Turkish media article. The refugees are trying to reach Europe.

The few others living there are business people, including private investors, restaurant owners as well about 20,0000 students. Nothing to hurt the economy with.

Alright this is a very long post I will go point by point but this will likely get boring for most people to read. so I'll try to cut this short

First of all, the core of our issues is education. The way the workforce is being brought up is completely random. We educate and and graduate lots of teachers for example but we don't employ them. We produce lots of lawyers so much so that the market is saturated with lawyers. I know a lot of them are doing very poorly. So before we do anything, the education system needs to be fixed.

Carpet sellers, kebab chefs, no offense to any of them but this is unskilled labor. You could become chef in a kebab restaurant in 2 years or so. Ultimately none of this matters, Turks don't have a genetic superiority in making kebap, much like how most pizza places aren't run by italians. Do we have a world spanning kebap company like Dominos? no. That's what matters.

What happens if all Turks come back to Turkey and we have too many of these unskilled workers? They can switch fields very easily. Like how many teachers are working as taxi drivers or bus drivers nowadays. You improve instiutes like Halk Eğitim that educate adults and the problem solves itself. It will never be as bad as 13 million refugees coming here and becoming unskilled workers.

It's not just about Pakistanis as I said many times before. We have 13-15 million refugees. They all need to go.

 

[SecularNationalist]

If he says to me that "Pakistani engineers are coming to Turkey to work" my answer would be the same. Why are we stealing Pakistan's engineers and why are we undercutting the employment opportunities of the Turkish engineers? It's unfair to everyone.

Just let everybody stay in their own country. It doesn't matter if they are good people or bad people.

The best people in the world are the ones who stay in their own country and try to improve their own country.

Yes exactly.
One reason immigration is higher in US, UK etc is because in developed countries they face a labor crisis or population shortage. Immigrants have a big role in developing those countries.

 

[ThunderCat]

Alright this is a very long post I will go point by point but this will likely get boring for most people to read. so I'll try to cut this short

First of all, the core of our issues is education. The way the workforce is being brought up is completely random. We educate and and graduate lots of teachers for example but we don't employ them. We produce lots of lawyers so much so that the market is saturated with lawyers. I know a lot of them are doing very poorly. So before we do anything, the education system needs to be fixed.

Carpet sellers, kebab chefs, no offense to any of them but this is unskilled labor. You could become chef in a kebab restaurant in 2 years or so. Ultimately none of this matters, Turks don't have a genetic superiority in making kebap, much like how most pizza places aren't run by italians. Do we have a world spanning kebap company like Dominos? no. That's what matters.

What happens if all Turks come back to Turkey and we have too many of these unskilled workers? They can switch fields very easily. Like how many teachers are working as taxi drivers or bus drivers nowadays. You improve instiutes like Halk Eğitim that educate adults and the problem solves itself. It will never be as bad as 13 million refugees coming here and becoming unskilled workers.

It's not just about Pakistanis as I said many times before. We have 13-15 million refugees. They all need to go.

I partly agree with you. However I disagree that cooking and preparing food is not skilled labor.

It's a very much needed skill as people need food to survive.

I don't think Turks who are vendors of Turkish food or ice cream abroad would want to come back home.

Their food would be considered exotic in countries like Korea, China, Thailand etc. that their business would sell more.

Of course locals there can open Turkish food there as well. Like in Pakistan, locals have licensed Turkish ice cream business, but again that's part of globalization.

If you have too many people in Turkey working in the same market, then how do you propose do diversify it? What jobs will some 80 million+ Turks do for a living?

Aside from those whom are farmers, what will the rest do? And can Turkey self-rely on gas supplies to keep it's people warm in the winter?

You can restructure your economy and become more internalized, but very few countries have achieved that.

The Soviet Union aka USSR did it because they were a huge country with so many natural resources and a much smaller population by comparison.

They could feed themselves, had stable population growth, more than enough indigenous resources.

North Korea has done it but their people live under bad conditions. Mongolia is half rural but they are a small population and they have more than enough water.

Turkey's population is too large to propose an internalized economy. With the current economic problems, Turks living abroad are contributing by sending in money.

I am not arguing for keeping refugees. I read a Turkish news media article about the Pakistani refugees and they all want to live in Europe. They just happen to be stranded in Turkey.

I am only arguing for allowing Pakistanis who live there legally. People who are working, paying taxes, investing should be allowed to continue living there as long as they don't break the law.

 

[LegionnairE]

If you have too many people in Turkey working in the same market, then how do you propose do diversify it? What jobs will some 80 million+ Turks do for a living?

We need to open new markets. Light industry, Heavy industry and High Tech. Education must be geared up, infrastructure must be improved and government subsidies must be created.

We need to form partnerships with companies such as Intel, TSMC etc. to bring microchip industry here. We need to start our civilian aircraft industry, robotics, supercomputers, AI, you name it. If the subsidies aren't enough, the government must invest its own money, like back in Atatürk's reign.

Aside from those whom are farmers, what will the rest do? And can Turkey self-rely on gas supplies to keep it's people warm in the winter?

I never said we shouldn't import gas. Economy is globalized, there's no going back from global economy to the old days. But we should strive for self sufficiency in all areas. Including this. So as I said, we must produce biodiesel to reduce our hydrocarbon imports.

Turkey's population is too large to propose an internalized economy. With the current economic problems, Turks living abroad are contributing by sending in money.

Miniscule amounts of money sent by individuals is insignificant for an economy as big as Turkey's

I am not arguing for keeping refugees. I read a Turkish news media article about the Pakistani refugees and they all want to live in Europe. They just happen to be stranded in Turkey.
I am only arguing for allowing Pakistanis who live there legally. People who are working, paying taxes, investing should be allowed to continue living there as long as they don't break the law.

Just why have any of this? It's harmful for everybody involved. It's greedy and short sighted.

 

[ThunderCat]

We need to open new markets. Light industry, Heavy industry and High Tech. Education must be geared up, infrastructure must be improved and government subsidies must be created.

We need to form partnerships with companies such as Intel, TSMC etc. to bring microchip industry here. We need to start our civilian aircraft industry, robotics, supercomputers, AI, you name it. If the subsidies aren't enough, the government must invest its own money, like back in Atatürk's reign.



I never said we shouldn't import gas. Economy is globalized, there's no going back from global economy to the old days. But we should strive for self sufficiency in all areas. Including this. So as I said, we must produce biodiesel to reduce our hydrocarbon imports.


Miniscule amounts of money sent by individuals is insignificant for an economy as big as Turkey's



Just why have any of this? It's harmful for everybody involved. It's greedy and short sighted.

In the first paragraph, that alone is proposing from a globalized market. Your current defense industry consists of imported materials as Turkey has few natural resources.

High tech industries like you proposed will require even more of that. Yes natural gas can substitute current gas imports.

But what you're proposing is an almost entire economic shift, which I don't see as possible.

Pakistan also had a fairly good defense industry until the 2000 but with the shortage of natural resources and UN restrictions on our weapons because they were ending up with African warlords, it has shrunk.

Most of what you wrote is self-sufficiency. Only thing is the markets for Turkish products and services is mostly abroad.

Turkish companies cannot survive just working in Turkey. They'll be out of business. All what you proposed is

Likewise for raw materials and components to propose high tech industries will need to be brought in from abroad as it is already doing.

For example Pakistan has a huge skill in producing surgical instruments even before the industrial revolution. But to meet global high-end demand, british machinery was needed to mass produce them.

Also if Pakistanis already living there should not work there, then there's no reason why turkish businesses operate in Pakistan.

No Pakistani airline currently flies to Turkey except for a few charter flights. Most Pakistani planes don't use Turkish airspace when flying to Europe.

Lots of Turkish companies have operated in Pakistan including construction business. And construction is a big part of Turkey's economy. Not so much for Pakistan as it has a mostly different economy.

Also if tourism is cut, then it'll be hard to redirect more than 59+ billion elsewhere and Turks working in it by the millions will have a hard time working elsewhere.